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The Fortress
October 11th, 2006, 03:42 PM
What do people think is the ideal number of events to swim per day at a meet? It seems that, for local meets, you're allowed to enter up to 5 events. That is way too many for me. I'm always gassed after 3 or end up scratching an event or relying on caffeine. Yet, I'd like to get more times in different events without traveling the countryside to go to zillions of meets. So, how many is too many if you want to swim fast?

Peter Cruise
October 11th, 2006, 04:25 PM
Leslie- don't forget relays, they can be the wildcard that takes you over the top for fatigue. Our local meet sports 4 relay slots in a one day meet, and yes, you're expected to be available for all of them. I was excused from the 4th one last year after emerging from the 100 brst with a facial colour one smartaleck teamate likened to 'bruised plum'.

aquageek
October 11th, 2006, 04:36 PM
For me, anything over 3 events/day total is pushing it. But, some on our team like to load up and go for it all. If there is an event that I'm really working on, I will go very light on that day. If there's an event that is just throwaway, like, say, the 500 free, I will swim all other events that day even if it means a subpar time.

I know some sandbaggers who only swim one event a day and then feel the crush of humiliation when I stagger to the blocks for the 500 and beat them like a drum.

Oh yeah, only a Canadian would use the term bruised plum. Is that a favorite color of lip gloss?

Peter Cruise
October 11th, 2006, 04:43 PM
Actually, you'll be turning that colour when you realize the stranglehold we have on continental energy resources.

aquageek
October 11th, 2006, 05:07 PM
Actually, you'll be turning that colour when you realize the stranglehold we have on continental energy resources.

You have seen what we do to countries that have energy resources we need. I heard a rumor our Boy Scouts have been mobilized to invade Canada. And, after our victory Budweiser will be the national drink of Canada and you will be forced to correctly pronounce words containing the letter "o." All that French-Canadian nonsense will be banned. Keep it up bruised plum kid!

Peter Cruise
October 11th, 2006, 05:53 PM
I understand that North Carolina stands accused of exploding the world's first 'lard bomb' that produces an epidemic of obesity and illiteracy when exploded, part of a plot to render the world into a comfortable place for the Geek and his many 'cousins'.

The Fortress
October 11th, 2006, 07:40 PM
Peter:

You got it. Relays take a huge toll. Fortunately, my team doesn't usually do them except for big meets. But I did find myself scratching an individual event at zones because I had two relays that day.

Maybe three is the right number. Of course, I'm signed up for 4 at my next meet...but it is a sprint meet. Hopefully, I'll survive. The last time I had 4 events, I was the last one off the blocks, practically falling into the water with a "plop" for the 50 fly (usually my favorite event). My teammates (no doubt attempting to shame me with their trash talk because I am a whimpy sprinter who doesn't swim the 200 fly or 500 free) accused me of of lackadaical racing until the last 15 meters when, fearing a stupid loss, I finally woke up.

I'm so sad to hear of the alleged pollution of NC. I have a very fine friend from there who is a very fast freestyler. And I met a very nice lady in the backstroke lanes at Worlds... Too bad about that.

Leslie

The Fortress
October 11th, 2006, 07:44 PM
Aquageek:

Now why spend all the time and energy to go to a meet and only swim one event?! I know Ande says it can be good to train for a particular event, but that seems to be taking it to an extreme. Actually, though, now that I think about it, that is exactly what my secret nemesis did at a meet this summer with the 50 free. But I got her by 2/100s anyway. I generally find that swimming one event at least gets me warmed up and ready to go for a subsequent event. And, if my goggles stay affixed to my face and I haven't blown a turn, I usually have more confidence.

Leslie

Peter Cruise
October 11th, 2006, 07:58 PM
Leslie- many masters swimmers 'over-enter' their races and are quite prepared to selectively scratch on the day. Reasons are as varied as there are individuals, but a few: having an injury rehabbed that is specific to a stroke (groin=breastroke) that you're not sure is going to stand up on the day, so you have 'backup' races to swim if it flares up; the dreaded 'going-much-faster-than-expected' local meet where entries are lower than expected; entry date is well in advance of meet & you change mind or vacillate on what your focus is. Bottom line, scratching is ok, esp. if you fear for your health (inc. mental well-being).

The Fortress
October 11th, 2006, 08:04 PM
Peter: Thank god I'm not being politically incorrect. Leslie

Peter Cruise
October 11th, 2006, 08:06 PM
Cripes no, Leslie: we don't allow that sort of thing here!

Donna
October 11th, 2006, 08:33 PM
Do the number of events you feel you want to do. I do agree that you can use one event to warm up for another. Gets the blood pumping. I tend to sign up for 4 or 5 per day. I have yet to scratch an event, if 2 are close together like the 400IM and 100Fr I did this past summer where I had 2 heats of 100Fr between my heats (5 min. rest). I fully intented to scratch the 100 but I just did my best and actually came close to my best time. Just looked at it as a challenge to overcome.

Donna

The Fortress
October 11th, 2006, 08:42 PM
Donna:

Great attitude! You're braver than me. I require at least 15 minutes.

Peter:

It has not escaped my notice that political correctness is deemed of little interest on this website. That's fine with me, as I tend to be the blunt sort and enjoy lively conversations. Another question on political correctness for meets: Must one always enter at their fastest time? I've noticed that many people do, but others seemingly intentionally put themselves in slower heats.

Leslie

Bob Boder
October 12th, 2006, 07:31 AM
I think 5 is a good number of events.

We have to travel to meets out of state. With the investment of time, energy and money to go to a swim meet 3 events is not enough. We are completely exhausted at the end of the day and end of the meet, but its a good feeling.

KaizenSwimmer
October 12th, 2006, 08:54 AM
In recent years my entry list has been limited by my preference for distance events and feeling that 200 or shorter are a waste of my time bcz I can never seem to get started or find my groove in that short a time.
This year however I've determined to swim shorter events and pursue personal goals in them, as well as view them as part of my training.

A 5-event day at a meet could provide nearly all the "quality" training I need for that week.

When I do many events like that, I may spend very little time out of the pool, if the meet isn't heavily attended -- often the case in Adirondack. I basically am warming up, competing, warming down/up, competing...etc. Which is fine. If I warm down thoroughly I don't have much difficulty returning multiple times to race...taking into account that my race times in short events may not differ much from the warmup paces of some others on this forum.

The Fortress
October 12th, 2006, 10:23 AM
I guess that's the question: Is the meet an unrested training meet or one in which you want to do eye-popping PBs. If it's the latter, I can't seem to do more than 3 even if I warm down. Peter, what about seed times? Must we always enter at our fastest times or can we be creative?

Muppet
October 12th, 2006, 10:23 AM
Remember the days back when we all were kids, and used to bust out an insane amount of races at those summer league meets? My league let us do 3 of 4 strokes, one IM and one relay - all in meets that lasted 2.5 hours. And what did we do afterwards but eat pizza, then play sharks&minnows for 3 hours.

The Fortress
October 12th, 2006, 10:29 AM
I remember those days, fondly. That's what my daughter seems to do effortlessly now. But I'm too old for that.... Hey, Jeff, who do you swim for? I live right outside DC too.

LindsayNB
October 12th, 2006, 10:42 AM
Peter, what about seed times? Must we always enter at our fastest times or can we be creative?

Leslie, you are determined to stir up a hornet's nest aren't you!

In general there is no rule that you must enter your best time. Some meet packages ask you to enter an official time. Personally I think the premise of seed times is that they should be a good prediction of your time. If you have been sick for months and are out of shape I don't see as necessary to enter your fastest time ever. Some people enter slow times so they can lead in a slower heat. Some people enter fast times so they can swim in the fastest heat. Some people enter times that they hope will increase their recovery time between their swims in two events.

I think the golden rule applies.

The Fortress
October 12th, 2006, 10:59 AM
Lindsay:

Are seed times really a "hornet's nest?!"

Leslie

aquaFeisty
October 12th, 2006, 11:02 AM
Leslie,

I think you're already on the right track. It totally depends on what you want to get out of the meet - really fast times or some quality work.

If it's a meet where you have shaved and tapered, I don't like to do more than 3 events per day plus relays (usually 2). Of course the shave-and-taper meet around here is Illinois States which is a very well attended meet so you get PLENTY of rest... although you're dead by your last event on the last day.

In-season meets, I sometimes do up to 5 events because:
a. I'm a crappy practice sprinter. Not through lack of trying... I just can't seem to muster the inner-go-fastness at practice I can get at a meet. Even a 'tired' meet race is going to faster than a practice sprint. And that converts into faster times at shave-and-taper meets.
b. Our pools have no blocks. Thus, more events = more starts.
c. I like to swim events at in-season meets where I have no expectations, like 200/400 IM, butterfly, backstroke.

For seed times, I try to make my best guess at what I'll actually go in the race at that particular meet. Sometimes this method works, sometimes I'm way off. But it's always an in-good-faith guess. Last year was tough because I was coming back from a couple years off and a baby and my in-season times were SLOW. So my State and Nationals times looked really padded because by some miracle I dropped a lot of time when I tapered (much more than usual.) Guess I was just really really pooped!:)

aquaFeisty
October 12th, 2006, 11:05 AM
You asked, "Are seed times really a hornet's nest?"

YES!

Sometimes people knowingly heavily pad their times, sometimes people put down ridiculously fast times just to get in the fastest heat (this seems to be more of a guy thing... I can't imagine wanting to be in a faster heat than I belong), sometimes the times are just flat out goofy. And other people (not me, but I know some) get really riled when swimmers enter with incorrect, either fast or slow, seed times.

scyfreestyler
October 12th, 2006, 11:53 AM
I swim only as many events as I can swim well. I like freestyle events at 200 and under so my options are limited anyhow. Although I think I might delve into the world of breaststroke at my next meet...we shall see.

I can't understand why somebody would give a seed time that is well beyond what they are capable of swimming. Do they think that they will somehow rise to the occassion and take 10 seconds off of their best 100 time?

The Fortress
October 12th, 2006, 12:10 PM
Yikes, I would never do that either. And who wants to drown in someone else's wake? It's curious though. I have seen a world record holder consistently seed themselves way, way slower than they actually swim. It didn't particularly get me riled up. I just assumed she wanted a wake free swim or didn't want to swim with 25 year olds....

LindsayNB
October 12th, 2006, 12:52 PM
Yikes, I would never do that either. And who wants to drown in someone else's wake? It's curious though. I have seen a world record holder consistently seed themselves way, way slower than they actually swim. It didn't particularly get me riled up. I just assumed she wanted a wake free swim or didn't want to swim with 25 year olds....

Too bad for the swimmers in the slower heat that got to swim in her wake I guess? Definitely not an application of the golden rule.

Personally I am too mediocre to be affected too much, I try to stay focused on what is happening in my lane, but it can be a downer when the person in the next lane, who entered the same or similar seed time as me, disappears into the distance.

Racer X
October 12th, 2006, 02:11 PM
I saw this happen in a couple of the 50 free championship heats at the Worlds this August. I am not sure what these guys were thinking, but they looked extra slow swimming next to the World's best. A couple came in 4-5 seconds slower than the field. I wonder if they simply entered their SCY times by mistake or if it was deliberate?

Perhaps they thought they could ride the draft and swim a faster time?

Maybe it's fun to enter in the 30-34 or 45-49 age group, enter a 23 or 24. and swim directly against a celebrity like Rowdy Gaines or Gary Hall Jr. Some clever video angles and editing may make it look like you were hanging in there in the cut you show your buds.

Personally, I got my ass handed to me enough by Rob Peel to know that when swimming next to one of these guys, unless you ARE one of these guys, you look very slow, you get no draft, you swim slow, your confidence goes out the window, and you lose in a big way- every time. No thanks.

FlyQueen
October 12th, 2006, 03:26 PM
I usually do the alloted 5 individual events and relays ... I don't swim more than a 200 ever though. (Except the occassional gut check 400IM) I've had meets where I swim 9 events in one day ... and yes by the end it sucks ...

I think of inseason meets as a way to sprint train. I try to spread out my events but if they end up back to back and attendance is low I suck it up and see what I can pull out. I had a meet when I was first getting back in shape where I was somehow seated in that fastest heat for the 200 free and heat 1 or 2 in the 200 IM which were back to back ... it was painful but all of that racing gets you into better shape.

I also swim 5 events + relays both days at state ...

Oh, I am also a non-practice swimmer ... I swim way faster at meets even when I am not tapered than I ever come close to in practice ...

Peter Cruise
October 12th, 2006, 03:37 PM
Leslie- hornet's nest or not, you may enter any time you want, but if you 'sandbag' too glaringly be prepared to have the occasional slower swimmer be a little miffed that you blew her doors off. I prefer submitting a target time that seems reasonable at the time of entry.

The Fortress
October 12th, 2006, 04:06 PM
I try not to sandbag. I agree with Lindsay -- no one needs to be crushed by wake. But sometimes, I'm not sure how fast I'll swim so I use the "good faith guess" rule. (My entry times are sometimes effected by whether my shoulder is cranky too.) I must confess I did once enter myself somewhat slowly in one event and in the fastest heat in the next event to give myself more recovery time. But some one else must have done the same because they beat me...

Peter Cruise
October 12th, 2006, 04:23 PM
Leslie- I guess the other factor in choosing how many events is: what is my objective at this meet? If the goal is to do a personal best, set a record etc., then perhaps the smaller number of entries is the best. There was one year in Master's when I swam in 26 meets in the 86-87 swim calendar (yes, I was a bachelor then) everything in BC, Wash, quite a few Oregon, Can Nats, both US Nats. I did it 'cause I was nuts, yes, but as well, I wanted to get as much race experience as I could, as quickly as I could. I entered the maximum number of events allowed in the local meets, frequently racing fatigued but garnering a great deal of confidence to approach my focus meets where I entered only optimal events (I guess I thought of the local meets as super-race pace workouts) & this paid off really well.
I don't know if I've swum in that many meets in the last 20 years (total) though...(real life intrudes!)

chlorini
October 12th, 2006, 04:39 PM
One of the things I dislike about sandbagging is that you end up getting a lot of really unbalanced heats instead of well-matched ones where people can push each other. If each heat of the 500 has someone going 5:15, someone going 6:00, and someone going 7:30, they aren't going to be able to push each other the way people going 5:55, 6:00, and 6:05 can. At least that's my opinion in addition to the it's-no-fun-getting-blown-out-of-the-water thing. :-)

The Fortress
October 12th, 2006, 06:55 PM
Chlorini:

Agreed. Sandbagging is evil, not conducive to optimal performance and dispiriting. Personally, I could have done without swimming next to the 23 year old who swam a 24 in the 50 free in the adjacent lane in my second meet ever.

Peter:

26 meets in a year?!?! You must have been on the road all the time. I think I swam in 6-7 meets in the last 15 months, and it was a bit much. But I can see where you got great racing experience, which is invaluable. I have definitely gotten better at racing and more confident in general as the meets have gone on. My first meet I took a look at the starting block and freaked out. And my first backstroke start was positively shameful. Right now, though, my kids' races clog up my calendar. So I'm tentatively planning only 4 meets between now and Nationals. And I'm not sure I want to fly out to Seattle ... so far. But it's tempting as I'm now 45. We'll see.

Donna
October 12th, 2006, 07:00 PM
The only time I sandbag a time is when I am knowingly doing 2 events back to back and then I only pad by alittle because I am getting used to doing alot of sprints in a short period of time atleast once a week during sprint night. Plus having been a distance swimmer for the past 3 years once I hit pace I can turn in some decent times even when tired.

I also like to support our sport and USMS by swimming alot of events at the local and regional meets I can make. I have seen a number of meets get cancelled due to lack of participation by swimmers in the area. If we want to have more local meets we must show our support by swimming more than a few events. :agree:

After all we are only competing against our last best time who cares which event it is. I am the sorriest 200 flier but I have done it in a meet atleast once and will probably do it again in the near future.

Donna

The Fortress
October 12th, 2006, 07:09 PM
Donna:

You got me there. I'm not doing the 200 fly no matter how much it helps USMS. I still think I'm sticking with my 3-4 events too. I just don't like feeling unreasonably and utterly exhausted when I step on the blocks. (This is to be distinguished from my usual fatigue from not getting enough sleep, which I have learned to ignore.) Besides, I'm a year older then you. That's my excuse. Or maybe it's the fact that you have a great coach.

Leslie

Donna
October 12th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Leslie, that 200 Fly was at the end of the Long Distance Pentathlon last year and I got LAPPED by Rob Copeland. He asked me if I wanted to be in the first heat and I said no, I needed the 4 minutes of rest that heat provided!

I survived!

Donna

The Fortress
October 12th, 2006, 08:59 PM
But, Donna, you're a distance swimmer and I'm a whimpy sprinter. The words "distance pentathlon" scare me. And I'm quite sure the last year of life has taken a lot out of me.

But I do have a teammate who a few years back swam the 200 meter fly dolphin-diving the whole way to score points for the team so that we could win a long course national championship in the medium sized club category. Now that's a class act!

Bob McAdams
October 15th, 2006, 01:46 AM
Actually, I've found that it varies. I can remember one pool where the pool deck was cool enough that some people (including me) were shivering, and I definitely found that if I restricted myself to 2 events, I'd do better at those events than if I tried to schedule 3 events. But at another summertime meet where the pool deck was warm, I found that doing 3 events instead of 2 didn't seem to hurt my times at all.

Another important factor, of course, is how close together the events are.

swimr4life
October 29th, 2006, 06:36 PM
I understand that North Carolina stands accused of exploding the world's first 'lard bomb' that produces an epidemic of obesity and illiteracy when exploded, part of a plot to render the world into a comfortable place for the Geek and his many 'cousins'.

I tried to ignore the statement above but my proud southern roots won't let me. What you said is not very nice! Please refrain from stereotypical statements like that. :shakeshead: North Carolina is not like that at all.

Peter Cruise
October 29th, 2006, 07:32 PM
Oh goodness, Beth- not meant to offend you, sorry- just another in the neverending trading of insults between me & geek. By the way, Canada isn't anything like he portrays either.

KaizenSwimmer
October 30th, 2006, 06:34 AM
Yesterday I swam what some call the "Terrible Triple" at the lightly attended Leatherstocking Meet in Oneonta NY (which I understand is the oldest uninterrupted Masters meet in the US - maybe the world - having begun in 1972).
200 Fly, 400 IM and 1650 Free, all in a space of just over two hours. My first ever 200 Fly, first 400 IM since 1992 (first IM race of any kind since 1994) and only the 2nd time I've swum 1650 in a session with other events.

I feel as if I swam stronger as the meet went on and was especially exhilarated by how I handled the 1650 after doing the other two.

The 200 Fly was the only one that was disappointing, though it came first. I'd done two of them in a workout in April - first time I'd ever attempted more than a 100 - and did 3:18-3:12 with less than 5:00 rest between. So I was hopeful of breaking 3:10. But something wasn't working - my hands began tingling on the 3d 25 - something of a sign of oxygen debt and I swam 3:22.

Ann Svenson commented afterward that my fly stroke looked like it could accommodate a breast kick well. So with 2 x 25 of warmup to try it out I did that on the 400 IM. Not only was it very relaxing, but I swam 4 sec per 50 faster than I had with the dolphin. I felt unfatigued at the end of the fly and all the way through in fact, sort of a light quick rhythm, and went a gratifying 5:54 (my goal based on practice times was to break 6:00).

On the 1650, mindful of how much the final 500 usually hurts (aerobic distress from the accumulating effect of all those flip turns), even when I have swum nothing else beforehand I started cautiously. My buddy Dave Barra (Chaos), swimming in the next lane, began pulling away so as I watched the distance between us grow. I decided I'd try to avoid being lapped until at least 1100 (2/3 of the race), then see how long I could stay with him on the final 1/3, hoping to be drawn along to a stronger finish.

When Dave lapped me at 1250, I raised my SPL from 15 to 16, added power to my hip drive and and began to "attack" my turns. My increased SPL was mainly a result of surfacing sooner after each turn because the increased effort made me more air-needy. By hanging with Dave for the last 400, I split my three 550s at 7:03-6:55-6:43 to go 20:41. The last 550 was within 6 seconds of what I split at Nationals last May, fully tapered, swimming only one race that day and wearing a Fastskin. Very encouraging.

If I did a Terrible Triple, Dave did a Fearsome Foursome, going 2:22 in 200 Fly, 5:20 in 400 IM, 5:50 for 500 and 20:05 for the 1650. Both of us see the value of doing multiple tough events as: (1) giving us a good dose of "quality" work, nearly as much as we might usually do in a week -- and higher quality than anything we might do in practice this week, because it most closely simulates what we'd like to do well in April and May, (2) concentrated race experience - I swam probably fewer than a dozen total races last season and Dave's count was probably similar. While swimming Zones in April, neither of us felt fully prepared to race multiple times in three days.

I also noticed it helped me have a cooler head. I was nervous before the 200 Fly, but felt virtually no nerves before the 400 IM and 1650 precisely because they felt like "dive starts at practice."

chaos
October 30th, 2006, 07:55 AM
when i started swimming masters, 7 years ago, i approached every meet as if i needed to swim my fastest time possable for every event entered. this led me swim easy for several days prior to each meet (early season or champs). i am no longer concerned with trying to be fresh and rested for every event i swim in a meet, and indeed for many meets, i won't adjust my training shedule at all; for example; on friday as part of a longer set of 100's, i swam 6 x 100 fly on 1:35 (held 1:19's a first for me), on saturday, i swam a set of 10 x 50 fly on 45 sec. i certainly felt some fatigue in my back and shouders as i approached the blocks for a 200 fly on sunday, but i think the experience of swimming a jam packed day of events (200 fly, 400 im, 500 free, 1650 free) is valuable at this time of the year. (6 weeks back in the pool after 20 +/- weeks open water.
i did scratch the 100 fly when i heard that the 1000 and 1650 would be combined, thus eliminating the 15min rest i thought i would have.

KaizenSwimmer
October 30th, 2006, 08:56 AM
i am no longer concerned with trying to be fresh and rested for every event i swim in a meet, and indeed for many meets, i won't adjust my training shedule at all.

While Dave and I share the same philosophy, I actually shook my head in wonder watching him swim those sets. I held back nothing on Friday evening, but limited my intensity somewhat on Saturday afternoon, trying to make it a bit more of a recovery session. Not Dave.

I think the point is central to one's development as a competitor who can race well any time, any place. Viewing most races simply as learning opportunities, building toward certain well-targeted and more-rested or fully-rested meets, rather than seeing each as a do-or-die proposition.

In that approach, you de-emphasize place and time in favor of evaluating most races on the basis of how well you execute your race plan. Racing tired (or less than fully fit) will probably influence your final time, but shouldn't affect your ability to execute a race plan -- and you ought to learn more about how to do that when you're tired (whether from multiple events or from not adjusting your training sked) than when you're fresher.

An additional element for Dave and I is that we're also engaged in trying to change habits on an age group team we coach, where there's been a tradition for the kids to skip practice the day before a meet, or to ask out of events during the meet itself. We hope that practicing what we preach will increase our credibiliity with the kids.

quicksilver
October 30th, 2006, 10:54 AM
During mid-season I thinks it's fine to be swimming hard right up until the day of your meets. (As long as enough sleep has been gotten in.)

A nice easy warm-up...with maybe one short speed set is a great way to stay limber ...and keep a good feel for the water ...on the day before a meet.

jim clemmons
October 30th, 2006, 03:54 PM
I try and swim at least four, most times five per day in the smaller meets. I feel it helps to desensitize and is a good way to build that "try to go fast when you don't feel like it" mental portion of competing.

When Nat's rolls around and you back down to two whole events over an entire day, well heck, it's like a vacation practically.

BillS
October 30th, 2006, 07:06 PM
I think the point is central to one's development as a competitor who can race well any time, any place. Viewing most races simply as learning opportunities, building toward certain well-targeted and more-rested or fully-rested meets, rather than seeing each as a do-or-die proposition.

In that approach, you de-emphasize place and time in favor of evaluating most races on the basis of how well you execute your race plan. Racing tired (or less than fully fit) will probably influence your final time, but shouldn't affect your ability to execute a race plan -- and you ought to learn more about how to do that when you're tired (whether from multiple events or from not adjusting your training sked) than when you're fresher.


Our pool was closed for 6 weeks for resurfacing. We've been back in the water 2 weeks, and NW Zones are coming up in a couple weeks. I'm nowhere near competition shape, and my times will no doubt be awful, but I'll be going for the following reasons.

(1) It's the same venue as Nationals, although the pool will be set up SCM for this meet. I'm a big believer in familiarity with a pool helping with speed, and I am planning to go to Nationals next year.

(2) I need more competition experience. I've learned something from every meet I have been to since my first meet back a year ago.

(3) I want to learn how to swim the 200 free. My first one wasn't pretty. Although my time will suck, I'll swim with the goal of splitting it properly.

(4) Meets are fun. This one should be well attended.

globuggie
October 30th, 2006, 09:20 PM
I'll chime in that it really depends on your goals for the meet. If I was really trying to get great times, I'd do two or three per day, depending on what events and the timing. For in-season meets, it's sometimes great to do a lot more. A few weeks ago, I swam six events in team meet that lasted about 2 1/2 hours (four individual and two relays). It was my first meet of the season, so I was mainly trying to get a base time for several events, especially for two I had never swum before.

The Fortress
December 3rd, 2006, 08:30 AM
In October, I swam 4 events plus 4 25s for time (battle of the true drop dead sprinters). I was dead. Yesterday, I slept in and went to a local meet late and only swam one event, a favorite, the 100 IM. I'd never done that before. It was fabulous. I chatted with lots of masters swimmers, cheered for my teammates, watched some world record swims and counted for some crazy distance swimmers. Had the best time ... :agree:

CreamPuff
December 3rd, 2006, 04:43 PM
Hornets - I love them! The sting feels so good.
I ran over a nest once when mowing. OUCH! But I still mow!!

Having been a high maintenance sprinter in high school (anything over a 100 was a marathon in my mind), I'm trying to become a middle distance and distance swimmer as a masters. Ha!

To get in shape and get some base times, I did the 5 events a day for two days in a SCM meet for events I NEVER swam in the past (400 IM/ 800 FR/ 400 FR etc.)
Also, I wanted to try for high point, something that I would often miss out on as I would usually swim 5 to 6 events in meets as opposed to the max of 10.

It was KILLER BUT very thrilling to show up and give it my all in every race (okay - I did go moderate on 1 event).

There were lots of positives and negatives throughout the meet like -
I placed in the top 10 for that year in almost all events swum
I did go moderately in one event b/c I was DEAD (not sandbagging but I did not give 100% on my 100 FR)
Earned high point
Got a top 10 world ranking in the 400 IM
Lost out to 1st place (all american in the 50 fly by .04 for that year) ARG!
And, there were a couple of relays (one each day)

My line up for that meet was -
800 FR
200 Fly
400 IM
50 FR
200 IM

Day 2
400 FR
100 FR
200 IM
50 Fly
100 Fly

For me, I'm attempting to see if it's attitude that's preventing me from becoming a distance/ middle distance sprinter. . . so, perhaps it's a choice rather than , "I just can't do it. . ." We have yet to see. I'd love to do a 5:15 n the 500 yd free. . . I have a WAYS to go as my best is 5:23.

But, this year, at the same meet, I'm swimming fewer events just to see if I can get some really fast times. So, I like to switch it up depending on my goals.

Now here's a funny hornet story regarding seed times.

I normally don't give a hoot about seed times and just make sure that I've entered my fastest adult times.
BUT
My first time swimming with men in a mixed meet - holy cow! They are fast!
Talk about eating their wakes! It didn't help that I was usually the only woman or one of two women in the heat. I felt like a drowned rat in my 1st event 100 IM - went a 1:03 (and yea, I was used to finishing in the top of my heats) and finished like second or third to last. I remember looking at the board and thinking - where the heck am I?! I was actually happy in the end not to be dead last and to have finished the race without stopping from drowning.

I had entered my fastest times as an adult and needless to say, the guys in my heats went WAY faster than what they entered. Perhaps they did not want to be beaten by a girl. . . or, they may have entered slower times, or perhaps everyone just had a heck of an amazing meet!

Anyway, now, with an attitude adjustment of race whomever regardless of gender, I don't eat *as* much wake now when racing the boys. It's tough but thrilling.

I usually enter my best times as an adult (unless I've been sick or not training at which point I do add in some time). And when swimming in a mixed meet, I enter my best times and just make sure I'm rested and really, really ready to race. That seems to work well.

I think racing men is a different animal than racing women. Size is the first issue that comes to mind. . .

The Fortress
December 3rd, 2006, 09:12 PM
I think racing men is a different animal than racing women. Size is the first issue that comes to mind. . .

Kristina:

I think it's great that you're open minded about trying lots of different events, and it seems to be paying off for you big time.

It doesn't matter whether you're racing men or women though. If everyone enters a reasonable seed time, then you should have a good race no matter the gender. I don't think men are sandbagging anymore than women. Sometimes, I have found (even with myself), people might not enter their best adult times because their training has been off, they've been ill, they're older or injured or whatever. How you feel when you send off the meet entry form makes a big difference.

As for size, I personally feel like many women are all towering over me. So I try to ignore size issues altogether.

CreamPuff
December 3rd, 2006, 10:19 PM
I totally see your points Fortress.

Like I said, I never really paid attention to seed times (fast or slow or right on) when swimming agains women (as I have all my life except for masters mixed). I think that when you go from making the wake to being caught in the wake(s), it's just a real shocker. You get to see the same sport/ same events (100 IM/ 500 Free/ 100 Fly/ whatever) from a totally different viewpoint.

My first reaction after my first mixed meet was, "(Wah!) I'm never going to swim mixed again." But, I'm glad I changed my mind. It's made me a tougher swimmer and I've earned some best adult times as a result of the more challenging experiences. Having everyone in your field who is over 6' and male is okay when we're on the blocks and a bit of a surprise when you hit the water. Yea, it bothered me the first time around. But, come the second time I swam at this mixed meet (Auburn), I ignored it and won my heat (second to last heat mixed 100 fly with a 1:00.xx)

Fortress, you are my hero if you can ignore size! I'm working on size not mattering. . . it's a long journey. Ha! Pun intended?!