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tunaman61
November 17th, 2006, 11:28 PM
I'm a new Master's swimmer. I workout on my own for now, and plan to enter a few SCY meets in 2007. Presently, I'm 45 (yep one of those 45-49 in that age group bubble, unfortunately) and will swim some 50 and 100 yard breaststroke, and maybe 50 yard freestyle to get a meet time and have a few chuckles. I've read through the forum (not the entire forum) and haven't stumbled across this topic yet. Ok, my question is regarding the USMS Rule 101.2.3 Kick (Breaststroke) it states, "After the start and after each turn a single downward butterfly (dolphin) kick followed by a breaststroke kick is permitted while wholly submerged,....."
What is this dolphin kick off the start and turn, who does it, how should you incorporate it properly not to DQ?

Warren
November 18th, 2006, 03:09 PM
do a butterfly kick during your pull.

do it like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ODJsp8NJQ

tunaman61
November 18th, 2006, 03:25 PM
Warren, thanks for the video clip. That makes it pretty clear, what and when to do. Does everybody today swim breaststroke turns and starts this way? When I swam breaststroke back in the stone age, no one used the dolphin kick on the start and turns. When did the rule get ammended to allow this?

swimr4life
November 18th, 2006, 03:34 PM
Hi! Welcome to the wonderful world of Masters Swimming!!:wave:

The rule was changed sometime after the 2004 Olympics. A Japaneese breaststroker named Kitajima got away with it before the rule change unfortunately....and stole a gold medal from Brendan Hansen!:mad:

The kick definitely makes your underwater pull more powerful and faster! It feels great off the walls! TRY IT!

LindsayNB
November 18th, 2006, 05:59 PM
Warren, thanks for the video clip. That makes it pretty clear, what and when to do. Does everybody today swim breaststroke turns and starts this way? When I swam breaststroke back in the stone age, no one used the dolphin kick on the start and turns. When did the rule get ammended to allow this?

Actually the timing of the kick in the clip is not typical, most swimmers time the kick in the second half of the pull down so that the kick completes about the time the hands reach the hips. I just watched several finals from a tape of the Commonwealth Games and only saw one swimmer perform the kick in the front half of the pull down.

The rule was changed in the fall of 2005. The clip is actually of the Japanese swimmer, Kitajima, in Athens. He caused the controversy, before the rule change, which probably initiated the rule change.

tunaman61
November 18th, 2006, 06:19 PM
Beth and Lindsay,
Thanks for the history lesson. I look forward to trying it. Also, I asked my son, a high school swimmer (breaststroker and freestyler), about the rule and he said some kids do it (last year) and can get DQ'd if caught. However, I checked the CIF web site (HS sports governing body in CA) and they made the rule change effective this 2006-2007 season. It's now CIF legal. So I guess the new rule has pretty much caught on everywhere.:cool:

Frank Thompson
November 20th, 2006, 05:13 PM
Hi! Welcome to the wonderful world of Masters Swimming!!:wave:

The rule was changed sometime after the 2004 Olympics. A Japaneese breaststroker named Kitajima got away with it before the rule change unfortunately....and stole a gold medal from Brendan Hansen!:mad:

The kick definitely makes your underwater pull more powerful and faster! It feels great off the walls! TRY IT!

Its true that Kusuko Kitajima did the dolphin kick on the first turn of the 200 and was warned by officials not to do it again. To say a gold medal was stollen from Brendan Hansen is wrong. There was a guy named Daniel Gyurta from Hungary that got the silver medal and 2nd place and he is the one who had a gold medal stollen. Brendan Hansen got the bronze and third place. However, Brenden did get 2nd place and silver in the 100 Breast, but Kusuko Kitajimi was being watched and did not do the illegal dolphin off the first turn and thus won the 100 Breast. This was proven as seen by many in the replays of that event on TV. So Kitajimi won the 100 Breast legitmately.

swimr4life
November 20th, 2006, 05:19 PM
:notworthy: My bad.

Frank Thompson
November 20th, 2006, 05:40 PM
Actually the timing of the kick in the clip is not typical, most swimmers time the kick in the second half of the pull down so that the kick completes about the time the hands reach the hips. I just watched several finals from a tape of the Commonwealth Games and only saw one swimmer perform the kick in the front half of the pull down.

The rule was changed in the fall of 2005. The clip is actually of the Japanese swimmer, Kitajima, in Athens. He caused the controversy, before the rule change, which probably initiated the rule change.

Lindsay:

I think he set a bad example and a lot of the world class swimmers were starting to do it and some were getting caught and some were not and that is the reason I think that FINA changed the rule because it was not being called a lot. At the USAS Convention in 2005, there was a VHS tape of all the races at the World Championships in Montreal in the masters hospitality room. I remember everyone watching both the 100 and 200 breastroke races and everyone commenting on how everyone was doing this after the start and on the turns. In fact, Wayne McCauley was commenting on this as we put the races in slow motion and saw a lot of it happening. The problem was that some were doing it a lot more than others and there was inconsistancies with the calling of DQ's.

An example of this was a guy named Jim Piper from Australia. He got a DQ for moving his foot in a dolphin like motion while others with more of a straight, powerful thrust of the dolphin kick got a way with it. The change in the rule was not suprising to me because of these things that happened since 2004.

Allen Stark
November 20th, 2006, 09:15 PM
Skip I think you got it backwards. The 100 Br was before the 200 at the Olympics. Also on the start of the 100 Kitajima did one dolphin kick before the pull and another one with the pull. Even by the new rules he should have been DQd. Then in the 200 he swam a clean race and won. I don't believe Kitajima had anything to do with the rule change. It is my understanding that the European judges said that accurately distnguishing incidental body movement from a true kick was too hard and so they petitioned to get the rule changed.

tunaman61
November 20th, 2006, 11:04 PM
I tried the dolphin kick on breaststroke turns and starts (off the sidewall). When I swim at a moderately easy pace it flows pretty good and seems to give more zip to the pull and gives me a little more underwater distance. However, when I pick up the pace both the dophin kick and pull breaks down mechanics-wise. I'm sure it needs some repetition to get programmed. There's a wide spectrum of swimmers on this forum, from the elite competitor to the lap swimmer. I'm more of a lap swimmer, however I'm interested in improving my technique and being a little faster (or not as slow) when I plan to compete.

swimr4life
November 21st, 2006, 12:38 AM
Skip I think you got it backwards. The 100 Br was before the 200 at the Olympics. Also on the start of the 100 Kitajima did one dolphin kick before the pull and another one with the pull. Even by the new rules he should have been DQd. Then in the 200 he swam a clean race and won. I don't believe Kitajima had anything to do with the rule change. It is my understanding that the European judges said that accurately distnguishing incidental body movement from a true kick was too hard and so they petitioned to get the rule changed.

Thank-you Allen! You made my night! My memory is ok after all! :thhbbb: