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Warren
December 9th, 2006, 03:21 AM
Can you set an official world record in a USMS meet?

Can you qualify for the olympic trials in a USMS meet?

dorothyrde
December 9th, 2006, 10:02 AM
I don't think you can qualify for trials at a meet that is not sanctioned by USS. in order for the time to count, USS must have sanctioned it, so the question would be, is the USMS meets sanctioned by USS. I doubt it.

osterber
December 12th, 2006, 01:19 PM
I believe that the swim needs to be recognized by USA Swimming, which means either fully sanctioned, or done as an observed swim. You can do a request for USA Swimming observation through your local USA Swimming LSC. We have our New England Masters Championship meets observed by USA Swimming. All of our officials are USA Swimming officials anyways. What is required in our case is that you notify the referee before your swim that you would like your swim observed for USA Swimming purposes. Then, those swims are sent (by the meet director, usually) to the LSC's NTV (national time verification) chairperson for entry into the USA Swimming SWIMS database.

It's very common for masters meets, high school meets, and college meets to be observed for USA Swimming purposes. (The only complicating factor is that the meet director needs to keep track of the observations... it's possible for your swim to be valid under high school rules, but be DQed under USA Swimming rules. If it's a high school meet, your time would be valid in the meet, and you'd score the points, but the time would not count for USA Swimming.)

For USMS/USA Swimming, there is a page of the USMS rule book that highlights the key differences between USA Swimming rules and USMS rules.

-Rick

osterber
December 12th, 2006, 01:21 PM
So to summarize -- yes, if the paperwork is done ahead of time, you can qualify for US Olympic Trials at a USMS meet.

I don't know if legislation was passed, but I believe that USA Swimming was working on some sort of setup whereby a meet could be joint-sanctioned by both USA Swimming and USMS, and you could have USA Swimming people and USMS people in the same meet.

-Rick

poolraat
December 12th, 2006, 01:36 PM
I don't know if legislation was passed, but I believe that USA Swimming was working on some sort of setup whereby a meet could be joint-sanctioned by both USA Swimming and USMS, and you could have USA Swimming people and USMS people in the same meet.

3 years ago I swam in a meet that was sanctioned by both. The only thing done different than a USS meet was the addition of masters heats (18 and over) for each event. The down side to this meet was that they only offerred a 50 free. All the other strokes were 100's and 200's (no 100IM either).

Kathy Casey
March 10th, 2007, 08:19 PM
The previous information mentioned by Rick Osterberg regarding observed swims is correct. The application for an observed swim must be submitted to the LSC at least 10 days prior to the meet. Applications and the SWIMS Times Module Policy Manual can be found on the USA Swimming web site. Masters meets are mentioned in the manual. An observed swim can qualify for the Olympic Trials. Official legislation regarding a proposal for dual sanctioning of a meet by both USA-S and USMS has not been finalized.

To claim an "official" World record (I'm assuming you mean other than Masters World records), it must be reported by "telegram, telex or facsimile" to the Honorary Secretary of FINA within 7 days of the swim. The swimmer must submit to Doping Control within 24 hours of the swim. Each lane of the pool has to be measured by a surveyor or other qualified official (can already be on file). The official FINA World record application form must be submitted to the Honorary Secretary of FINA within 14 days of the swim (although the USA Swimming section on World records says 21 days). Those FINA rules are on pp. 141-143 of the 2005-2009 FINA Handbook.

Kathy Casey, Chair
USMS Rules Committee

Peter Cruise
March 11th, 2007, 12:59 AM
Thank you, Kathy, fot that info. Kathy, for the rest of you, is the best of the best, a priceless gift to USMS.

Can you imagine the scrambling if a real, open World record was set at a Masters meet. My gawd we'd all suffer apoplexy in our earnest desire to have this salutary event recognized. Could it happen some day? And in what event?

FindingMyInnerFish
March 11th, 2007, 06:03 AM
Thank you, Kathy, fot that info. Kathy, for the rest of you, is the best of the best, a priceless gift to USMS.

Can you imagine the scrambling if a real, open World record was set at a Masters meet. My gawd we'd all suffer apoplexy in our earnest desire to have this salutary event recognized. Could it happen some day? And in what event?

I second the thanks... and hey why shouldn't a WR be set in a masters' meet! :D

While I'm in no danger of setting any records except maybe personal ones, what about age group world records? I'm assuming that you folks have been talking about overall world records, but do the same rules apply for someone setting a world record in the, let's say, 65-69 age group? Or is that governed by USMS?

Warren
March 11th, 2007, 01:22 PM
Nick Bruneli set an american record in the scm 50 free and there was debate over whether it should count because it was set in a masters meet.

Kathy Casey
March 11th, 2007, 04:00 PM
Thanks for the nice words, Peter. We were watching Nick's swims with great interest. Age-group World records are the FINA Masters World records. Requirements are a little different for those; the application must be made on the FINA Masters World Record form within 60 days, a copy of birth certificate or passport must be submitted, the pool must be measured, and the meet must have a Masters sanction (pages 320-321 in the 2005-2009 FINA Handbook).
Kathy Casey

swimr4life
March 11th, 2007, 04:01 PM
I don't know if legislation was passed, but I believe that USA Swimming was working on some sort of setup whereby a meet could be joint-sanctioned by both USA Swimming and USMS, and you could have USA Swimming people and USMS people in the same meet.

-Rick


That would be great!!! Would that mean age groupers and Masters could swim together? You could have whole families swimming meets together....how cool would that be?!

Donna
March 11th, 2007, 07:13 PM
I would love to see dual sanctioned meets, especially in my area. But until that day comes I guess I will just have to swim in both leagues. I have done 3 meets this year with USS swimming with GCAT. The last one had 5 Masters swimmers and some of us were not too bad and had a fantastic meet. My first meet I even got to do a relay with 2 13 year olds and a 14 year old. It was great.

I have to say USS meets allow for alot more rest between events than masters meets. I never question myself for doing 2 back to back events in USS meets, there is always time to recover. Masters meets tend to have less rest between events so sometimes my times are not great but they are always in the ball park of my best.

Kathy Casey
March 11th, 2007, 07:19 PM
I also swim USA-S and USMS meets (have athlete membership in both) and have gotten to swim relays with the girls. That has been really fun.
Kathy Casey

osterber
March 12th, 2007, 11:29 AM
That would be great!!! Would that mean age groupers and Masters could swim together? You could have whole families swimming meets together....how cool would that be?!

Well, except for this new NCAA rule that is going to take effect that prohibits NCAA swimmers and high school swimmers from competing in the same heat of any event. Talk about a step in the wrong direction.

-Rick

swimr4life
March 12th, 2007, 03:29 PM
Well, except for this new NCAA rule that is going to take effect that prohibits NCAA swimmers and high school swimmers from competing in the same heat of any event. Talk about a step in the wrong direction.

-Rick

That is ridiculous! What is the rationale behind that? That will create more heats too. What a headache for the workers to have to worry about that when they set up a meet.