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Seagurl51
January 10th, 2007, 11:19 PM
I'm starting two-a-day practices in a desparate attempt to get ready for Nationals. So I'm swimming 3 times a week, twice a day, running and light weights the other two days, and resting on weekends.

Any ideas for making the transition from swimming just 3 times a week to this new schedule easier? My muscles are screaming right now!! :help:

FlyQueen
January 10th, 2007, 11:29 PM
I'm starting two-a-day practices in a desparate attempt to get ready for Nationals. So I'm swimming 3 times a week, twice a day, running and light weights the other two days, and resting on weekends.

Any ideas for making the transition from swimming just 3 times a week to this new schedule easier? My muscles are screaming right now!! :help:



Hi hon! I'll email you soon. First of all, do this gradually. For example, swim twice on Wednesdays this week and next and even the following, then add Fridays in for about a month, then add Mondays ... Second, I think you'd be better off swimming 5 days/week instead of doing doubles 3 x per week. Your body needs time to recover.

SwimStud
January 10th, 2007, 11:32 PM
I'm starting two-a-day practices in a desparate attempt to get ready for Nationals. So I'm swimming 3 times a week, twice a day, running and light weights the other two days, and resting on weekends.

Any ideas for making the transition from swimming just 3 times a week to this new schedule easier? My muscles are screaming right now!! :help:


Hi hon! I'll email you soon. First of all, do this gradually. For example, swim twice on Wednesdays this week and next and even the following, then add Fridays in for about a month, then add Mondays ... Second, I think you'd be better off swimming 5 days/week instead of doing doubles 3 x per week. Your body needs time to recover.

Either way Kyra that's still pretty intense--good luck to you.

knelson
January 11th, 2007, 01:19 AM
I'm starting two-a-day practices in a desparate attempt to get ready for Nationals.

For Nationals in May? Man, I was thinking we still had plenty of time to get ready!

I would suggest not overdoing it.

swimr4life
January 11th, 2007, 01:48 AM
Hi Kyra!
I would not jump from 3 times a week to twice a days! You will be increasing way too fast and taking a huge chance for an injury. That is what I did and now I'm paying the price! I've been out of the water for 3-4 weeks, having to take muscle relaxers and antiinflammatory drugs and going through PT! I agree with Fly Queen....it would be better to swim 5 times a week! I just don't want you to make the same mistake I did!:(

waves101
January 11th, 2007, 08:17 AM
Yes, the 5 days a week plan would be more beneficial. Also, I find a supplement, like Endurox, really helps when taken within 15 minutes of completing the workout. It helps the body to recover quicker so you're not fatigued for the next days workout. It's important to push the body outside it comfort zone but make sure you listen to it when too much is too much. Good Luck.

geochuck
January 11th, 2007, 08:27 AM
I always stay in the comfort zone. If I am racing in May I would be doing a very slow build up to attain my goals.

As a matter of fact that is when my races are May in Winnipeg. I am swimming with a vengence but within my abilities at this time. Never more then 1000m a day and setting the goal of breaking the Canadian records for my age group in the 50 and 100 free and fly.

I do not ever over do it.

CreamPuff
January 11th, 2007, 08:37 AM
I'm starting two-a-day practices in a desparate attempt to get ready for Nationals. So I'm swimming 3 times a week, twice a day, running and light weights the other two days, and resting on weekends.

Any ideas for making the transition from swimming just 3 times a week to this new schedule easier? My muscles are screaming right now!! :help:

Hi Seagurl,

Amen! Getting in shape is hard to do!! It's an ongoing quest.

I too admire you for your workout routine! You are doing more than I am - I swim 6 times a week for 1.5 hrs each practice and do weights (moderate 45 to 60 minute routine) 2 to 3 times a week. No running if I can help it! I'm too tired! Sundays off. I attempted "doubles" for a bit but cut it out as swimming became very "un-fun" and I was exhausted at the start of each practice - a sign my body was not ready to handle that.

I'd like to know what made you decide to do doubles 3 times a week as opposed to 1 practice 5 or 6 times a week. Is it a scheduling issue or is there a training philosophy behind it? Just curious. How much yardage are you putting in and what kind of intensity (intervals) do you practice at?
How many hours of rest do you have between doubles?

There's no need to resort to, as you put it, "desperate" measures! :agree:

With doubles (I'm a bit older than you at 34 - so you may be better suited to pulling this off at 19/20 if that's how old you are), I did not get enough recovery time and continued to feel poor during practices. So I cut it out.
If you are feeling terrible (and I'm not sure based on your post), I'd modify the training plan to include a gradual build up of yardage and intensity in order to avoid *possible* injury and/ or burn out. Perhaps cut out the runs and shoot for swimming 4 times a week. :2cents:

What are your goals for nationals? You may not need to cram in all that you listed and still see excellent improvement from a fitness standpoint.

knelson
January 11th, 2007, 10:46 AM
I swim 6 times a week for 1.5 hrs each practice and do weights (moderate 45 to 60 minute routine) 2 to 3 times a week.

I'm impressed. That's a lot of working out!

poolraat
January 11th, 2007, 11:14 AM
I've found that doing 6 daily workouts a week has been enough during most of the year. The only time I do doubles is in the mid to late part of my season and then it is never a hard session and only about half the yardage of my usual workouts. Generally I'll do 1 or 2 second workouts and use them mainly to work on fly & back (and sometimes the other stroke) speed. Lots of 15's to 50's at race speed with lots of rest and slow free in between.

Seagurl51
January 11th, 2007, 11:39 AM
My goal times are to make qual times for Nationals (which I have a ways to go) and I"m really afraid of not being able to make it by May, so I want to train as hard as possible for as long as possible....but I guess I might be over doing it.

I started two a days for scheduling. My team has a practice in the morning and at night. I would swim 5 days a week, but I don't swim well on my own, and since I have access to coached workouts I figured two a days would be better. I get 12 hours of rest in between the workouts, so it's a good rest.

Sounds like I need to cut back a bit though. So how 'bout swim Mon. and Fri. mornings, two practices on Wed. and then maybe reduce the amount of time I run on Tues. and Thurs. from 30 min. to 20 or 15 min.?

That seems like a schedule I can live with and not over do it. I'm not sure if the wipe-out was from not being in the pool for 3 weeks or from doing too much. I'll cut back for a little while and see how I feel.

Thanks everybody for the tips!!!!

ande
January 11th, 2007, 11:40 AM
swim 5 days a week
quit running
keep lifting weights

hang in there you'll get used to it

ande


I'm starting two-a-day practices in a desparate attempt to get ready for Nationals. So I'm swimming 3 times a week, twice a day, running and light weights the other two days, and resting on weekends.

Any ideas for making the transition from swimming just 3 times a week to this new schedule easier? My muscles are screaming right now!! :help:

KaizenSwimmer
January 11th, 2007, 11:49 AM
Any ideas for making the transition from swimming just 3 times a week to this new schedule easier?

What's your age? Your current fitness level? Your goals for Nationals?

All should factor into your decision.

If you're 24 and were swimming in an ambitious college program two or three years ago you might adapt within a month or two.

If you're 34 and haven't trained ambitiously in 5 to 10 years, you might put yourself into such a deep hole it could take a month or more to climb out...during which time you'd probably not be moving closer to a performance goal.

If you're 54 and have been sedentary for 10 to 30 years, you'd almost certainly be setting yourself up for a painful fall.

How fast you'd like to swim and in which events should also enter into the decision.

At the beginning of this year, as I was on the verge of turning 55, I'd spent 9 of the previous 12 months in recovery from a serious shoulder surgery and subsequent separation of the same shoulder. Between Jan and May I trained four to five times a week, about 75 min per session, supplemented by shoulder rehab exercise 10 min each of those days. I focused on imprinting the feelings I hoped to experience during my races and honing my sense of pace. I let conditioning "happen" rather than forcing it. In April and May I swam the 500, 1000 and 1650 as fast as I had at 18.

Seagurl51
January 11th, 2007, 12:35 PM
What's your age? Your current fitness level? Your goals for Nationals?




I'm 20 (21 in May). I'm not in super great shape, but I'm not as bad as I have been. Goal for Nationals is qual times for the 1000, 500, and 100 breast...can't remember them off the top of my head.

Currently injury free. Last bad injury was 2 years ago (disslocated shoulder) and haven't had any problems since completing my PT.

The Fortress
January 11th, 2007, 12:38 PM
swim 5 days a week
quit running
keep lifting weights
hang in there you'll get used to it
ande

Kyra:

Spreading out the swimming is better, but it sounds like doubles suit your schedule better. Maybe one of the practices could be more mellow, more technique oriented? I have to agree with Ande on the running. I love to run, but it doesn't help the swimming all that much. Even the cardio doesn't seem to transfer over all that well.

You're a breaststroker and distance freestyler, right? Whoops, we must have been posting at the same time. I see you answered that. Glad you're injury free! You can swim up to 3 events at nationals without having made qualifying times though. Keep that in mind. You've got plenty of time to train until May.

Sounds like you're in pretty decent shape and, since you're young, you'll adapt quickly. I am in somewhat decent shape. But, unlike Terry, I am not remotely near the times I did at 18. As they say, I used to be faster, but now I'm a master.

aquaFeisty
January 11th, 2007, 03:25 PM
Hi Kyra,

Good luck with the training plans and on making cuts for Nationals. I'd agree with Ande and Leslie about the running. Maybe if there was any way you could replace even one of the Tues/Thurs runs with swimming? I've run before during the season and found that it only moderately impacted my freestyle (even sprints) but absolutely destroyed my breaststroke. So much of my breast speed comes from snappy quads and flexible ankles. Running is not good for either of those. Now I don't run at all until after the spring shave and taper meet.

Good luck and tell us how it goes!

poolraat
January 11th, 2007, 04:34 PM
Kyra,
I hope it goes well for you. Maybe we'll meet at Nationals. I have 5 times and hope to get the 6th before the entry deadline in April.

KaizenSwimmer
January 11th, 2007, 04:50 PM
I'm 20 (21 in May).

Well you're young enough to be resilient, but I still think you'll swim better if you avoid training to the point of getting deeply fatigued or extremely sore. For the distance events if you work on even-splitting or a slight negative split, you'll swim better than if you don't. Try swimming the first half of repeats or sets in a stroke count 1 or 2 SPL lower than your usual. That exercise in discipline and patience (and efficiency) can translate well into energy to bring the longer races home.
For Breast, work on streamlining just below the surface for about two-thirds of each stroke cycle. Having a "minus-count" SPL for the first lap or two can also help you with finishing strongly. When Amanda Beard broke the world record for the 200m Breast in July 2004, she stroked 15-17-18-19 SPL one each 50 meter length -- which is stunning efficiency but also a measure of how a low initial SPL allowed her to increase tempo and still be highly efficient.
Watch this clip of Leisel Jones on youtube then do everything possible to imitate her. That will help your race more than anything you can do on dry land.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaryiyhbyEU&mode=related&search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaryiyhbyEU&mode=related&search)=

Muppet
January 11th, 2007, 04:57 PM
I'm 20 (21 in May). I'm not in super great shape, but I'm not as bad as I have been. Goal for Nationals is qual times for the 1000, 500, and 100 breast...can't remember them off the top of my head.

Currently injury free. Last bad injury was 2 years ago (disslocated shoulder) and haven't had any problems since completing my PT.

We'll all have to help you celebrate being 21 while we're all out at Nationals!

Seagurl51
January 11th, 2007, 06:41 PM
We'll all have to help you celebrate being 21 while we're all out at Nationals!

Oh thanks. :wiggle: That would be fabulous!! I turn 21 two days before competition starts so I really can't go do anything. I don't want to be in recovery for my first race. ;)


Thanks also for the tips. Sounds like cutting out the running would be a good idea. I didn't even think of it hindering my breaststroke, but my knees have been hurting a little lately so I wonder if maybe those are linked. Never used to hurt, but I never ran either. I'll stick with light weights...my upper body strength is pretty terrible.

I've been trying to really focus on technique in the pool for right now. So I'll keep working my DPS and trying to stay powerful in the water.

So since I've changed my entire training, how long should I wait at each period before I up it again? Like how long until I add back in running (I need the running for Parkour which I hope to be trying this spring)? How long before I add in another two a day? etc........

quicksilver
January 11th, 2007, 09:30 PM
I'm 20 (21 in May).

20 year olds are super human. (In 25 years or so you'll agree.) Somehow recovery time is much faster when one is young.

As much as one loves the sport... suiting up twice in one day might lose it's appeal after the second or third week. (I only did this in college because of the scholarship...otherwise once a day would have been fine with me.)

I like Ande's recipe. Five days once a day.

This may even be better than three days with the doubles.

Superfly
January 12th, 2007, 06:38 AM
swim 5 days a week
quit running
keep lifting weights

hang in there you'll get used to it

ande

Hi Ande!
Big discussion around weight lifting vs Swimming currently in our team. Michael Phelps never lift weights..he seems to do pretty good in the pool:rolleyes:. Lots of others spending lots of time in the gym as well. You recommend weight lifting as I understand. Why? Do you recommend it even for 35+ age groups?

Thx!
/Per

The Fortress
January 12th, 2007, 09:11 AM
Hi Ande!
Big discussion around weight lifting vs Swimming currently in our team. Michael Phelps never lift weights..he seems to do pretty good in the pool:rolleyes:. Lots of others spending lots of time in the gym as well. You recommend weight lifting as I understand. Why? Do you recommend it even for 35+ age groups? Thx!/Per

Per:

Now, I'm not Ande, but I think Ande would say yes to your last question. (He himself is over 35 and lifts.) As you age, you start to lose muscle mass. To counteract that, you need to life weights. If not for swimming, just for general health because more muscle mass helps along your other systems. But even for swimming, weight lifting is important, especially if you are a sprinter. I think Ande listed some swimming specific weight training on the "Ask Ande" thread recently.

I thought Michael Phelps had recently started lifting weights ... I understand he has a mean medicine ball routine, which would be a good substitute/complement to weights.

Kyra:

If you've just recently started running, make sure you don't ramp up the milage too fast. Even though you're young, too much mileage too soon can easily result in injuries (even with good technique). And if your knees already hurt, you might want to back off. Do you need a lot of running for Parkour? I would do shorter runs at least of no more than 30 minutes. I usually run 2-3 times a week, even though it's not good for my swimming. (If you have to double up, do a run/swim instead of a swim/swim.) But before a big meet like Nationals, I try to completely cut out the running (and weights) for at least 2-3 weeks. So, if you're going to run, don't "add it in" in the spring shortly before Nationals. Plus, if your knees hurt, better to use a treadmill or run on dirt or grass. Less pounding. Good luck! You sound very ambitious.

P.S. When are you going to write another poem?

Seagurl51
January 12th, 2007, 02:12 PM
I love medicine balls!! Those things are amazing....wonder if I can convince Michael to help me out there. :wiggle:

I usually run 30 minutes on an elliptical. But I'll hold off for right now, sounds like that seems to be a general concenus. You need a lot of running in Parkour, but I'm not going to ramp up my parkour right before Nationals. Just something fun to do on weekends. :groovy:

No idea about a poem....I have been thinking about it though........I'll see what I can do this weekend. ;)

Caped Crusader
January 18th, 2007, 10:39 PM
I usually run 30 minutes on an elliptical. But I'll hold off for right now, sounds like that seems to be a general concenus.

I'm not a swim coach, but running is not the same as an elliptical machine. What setting are you using? Running is much more load bearing and creates greater leg fatigue. It's hard to believe that a short elliptical "run" would hurt much, especially if you want to Parkour. That looks pretty cool. But you may not want to chance it before Nationals if that's your priority.

Seagurl51
January 19th, 2007, 12:30 AM
I'm not a swim coach, but running is not the same as an elliptical machine. What setting are you using? Running is much more load bearing and creates greater leg fatigue. It's hard to believe that a short elliptical "run" would hurt much, especially if you want to Parkour. That looks pretty cool. But you may not want to chance it before Nationals if that's your priority.


I ususally run on the fat burn or cross-training setting. So a little hard, but not to bad. I'm definately gonna wait to get really into Parkour til after Nationals. But I thought once the snow melts (if it ever melts :frustrated:) it'd be a nice break from the gym.

I'm waiting for a few weeks right now on the running, just to ease into my training, but I plan on adding it back in in about 3 weeks or so.

SwimStud
January 19th, 2007, 09:18 AM
For Seagurl:

There was a young lady named Kyra,
Who yearned to be a "Parkour-flyer.”
When to the forum she spoke,
Rich said “Stick to Breaststroke!
So at the Nationals you won’t be a crier!”

:p

Seagurl51
January 19th, 2007, 01:35 PM
Thanks Rich!!!! That was beautiful.:smooch:

craiglll@yahoo.com
January 19th, 2007, 02:00 PM
On Tuesday, I started swimming after not regularly swimming since Labor Day. I had no pool avaiable. I swam 3 times. I rowed and lifted. Three times I ran, I had to stop because of those tricky knees & lungs. I can't believe how out of shape I am for swimming. This is the worst I've ever been, even after a colectomy, not swimming for one month and wearing an ileostomy bag, I swam better. It is really terrifying. I tried to do some fly last night and my shoulders wouldn't let me.

Seagurl51
January 24th, 2007, 07:42 PM
Because I'm in college I live in a perpetual state of tired. Some days are better than other, but by the time 4 rolls around, I'm usually wiped. Problem is evening practice doesn't start until 6:30. I have a terrible time motivating myself to go and when I do I usually swim like s**t. Is it worth dragging myself to the pool to swim like crap and further exhaust myself, or should I wait a few weeks and try to add it in slowly (I workout 5 days a week right now, three in the pool)?


Also, any ideas to combat exhaustion? ;) I sleep like 8 hours a night (or split up within a 24 hr period...yay naps), exercise everday and still end up super tired.

poolraat
January 24th, 2007, 07:52 PM
... but by the time 4 rolls around, I'm usually wiped. Problem is evening practice doesn't start until 6:30. .... Also, any ideas to combat exhaustion? ;) I sleep like 8 hours a night (or split up within a 24 hr period...yay naps), exercise everday and still end up super tired.

If you have time around 4, have a snack and take a short (15-20 min.) nap and see if that helps. Don't nap for more than that though or you will really feel like s**t, and it may also make it harder to get to sleep later.

Because of my work I can't nap in the afternoon, but I find that just eating something between 4 and 5 helps a great deal when I go to the pool at 5:30. I don't eat much either. An orange or banana or a cup full of trail mix is all it takes.

The Fortress
January 24th, 2007, 08:11 PM
but by the time 4 rolls around, I'm usually wiped. Problem is evening practice doesn't start until 6:30. I have a terrible time motivating myself to go and when I do I usually swim like s**t. Is it worth dragging myself to the pool to swim like crap and further exhaust myself, or should I wait a few weeks and try to add it in slowly (I workout 5 days a week right now, three in the pool)?

I'm almost always somewhat tired too, especially at 4:00 pm or so. Poolraat's suggestion is good. I liked napping in college. I can't do it now though. Get the 8 hours consecutively if you can. Make sure your nutrition is right. How long have you been tired? What do college kids eat these days?

Otherwise, ignore it.

Don't give in to tiredness and skip practice, especially if you're only swimming 3x a week. The secret to getting good in masters swimming is learning how to mentally handle fatigue and tough practices along with daily life. When you are tempted to skip out, think about your goals, like going to nationals. And think to yourself, if I skip practice, can I get to that goal? It's generally better to try to exercise through colds or fatigue as long as it's not severe. Once you skip practice or let down, it's easier to keep doing it. If you fight this urge, you'll usually feel better for having done the workout and eventually the fatigue will go away and you'll feel better anyway. Not that it won't return. But a little mental discipline goes a long way.

Having said that, I will now admit that I am really tired from getting up early and I am only going to swim an hour tonight easy by myself during American Idol. But at least I'm dragging myself to the pool. I think I'll work on streamlining and breaststroke. ;)

Seagurl51
January 24th, 2007, 08:13 PM
If you have time around 4, have a snack and take a short (15-20 min.) nap and see if that helps. Don't nap for more than that though or you will really feel like s**t, and it may also make it harder to get to sleep later.

Because of my work I can't nap in the afternoon, but I find that just eating something between 4 and 5 helps a great deal when I go to the pool at 5:30. I don't eat much either. An orange or banana or a cup full of trail mix is all it takes.

I usually do eat...I eat constantly. And I've tried taking "naps" (usually just lay and rest, I can't fall asleep in the afternoons), and I feel better, but within about an hour I feel exhausted again.

LindsayNB
January 24th, 2007, 08:59 PM
Have you tried cutting down on your non-swimming workouts? I seem to remember that you recently increased you training significantly, perhaps you tried to increase to much too fast?

Seagurl51
January 24th, 2007, 10:36 PM
Have you tried cutting down on your non-swimming workouts? I seem to remember that you recently increased you training significantly, perhaps you tried to increase to much too fast?

I cut out the running and I go twice a week (Tues. and Thurs.) to the gym. Lift light weight to almost fatigue for biceps, triceps, lat pulls, bench machine, and abs. I've actually noticed a difference by doing this, so I don't really want to cut it out.

LindsayNB
January 25th, 2007, 01:17 PM
If you are still exercising the five weekdays and resting on weekends I wonder if you might do better if you split up your rest days. Three days on, one off, two on, one off might allow you to recover better? (E.g. move the Thu gym to Sat)