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ande
January 18th, 2007, 04:37 PM
Hi usms swim friends,

I'm working on a new swim faster faster article and I wanted to gather a little data first

here's my questions:

In your 2 or 3 best events

what are your lifetime best times?
how old were you when you swam them?
what year was that?

what are your best times in those events for each masters age group you've been in?


here's an example of what I'm looking for


Ande Rasmussen

50 scy free
1985 22 20.4
(25 - 29) 1991 28 20.5
(30 - 34) 1995 33 20.9
(35 - 39) can't find a time
(40 - 44) 2004 40 22.44


thanks in advance to for participating in this
I look forward to reading your replies

Ande

PS feel free to email them to me if you don't want to post them here
AndeRasmussen@aol.com

Muppet
January 18th, 2007, 04:50 PM
My back-log is short because of my age, but here are two. All swims performed at that year's SCY Nationals. And according to my PivotTables (see below), I can't get anywhere close to these top times w/o the meet being Natioinals :wiggle:

SCY 500 free
19-24 - 2005, age 24, 5:01.81 ** PB
25-29 - 2006, age 25, 5:03.68

SCY 100 fly
19-24 - 2004, age 23, 56.67
25-29 - 2006, age 25, 56.13 ** PB

Ande, this fall I actually started a swim time database in Excel and went a little crazy with PivotTables so I can look things up by course, age, championship meet, etc... Quite handy for this thread!

poolraat
January 18th, 2007, 05:04 PM
I don't have a back log because I didn't start swimming until 7 years ago. My first meet was 5 years ago as a 50 y.o.

Everything is SCY and 50-54 age group
2005 (53)
50 free 26.81
100 free 59.23
50 back 32.87
2006 (54)
200 free 2:17.03
500 free 6:22.70
50 fly 30.31

The Fortress
January 18th, 2007, 06:06 PM
what are your lifetime best times?
how old were you when you swam them?
what year was that?


edited

matysekj
January 18th, 2007, 06:17 PM
Being the obsessive statsmeister that I am, I have this information readily available:

100 BR SCY
1981 21 1:01.35
(25 - 29) 1989 29 1:05.67 not shaved/tapered
(30 - 34) 1994 34 1:03.19
(35 - 39) 1998 38 1:03.60
(40 - 44) 2002 42 1:04.17 *in a body suit
(45 - 49) 2009 49 1:04.45
(50 - 54) 2010 50 1:06.54 *last year of body suits

200 BR SCY
1981 21 2:13.17
(25 - 29) -- not swum
(30 - 34) 1993 33 2:17.83
(35 - 39) 1998 38 2:20.85
(40 - 44) 2000 40 2:19.13 *start of body suit era
(45 - 49) 2007 47 2:23.41
(50 - 54) 2010 50 2:25.57 *last year of body suits

500 FR SCY
1980 20 4:46.85
(25 - 29) 1988 28 5:34.06 not shaved/tapered
(30 - 34) 1992 32 5:10.73
(35 - 39) 1998 38 5:10.92
(40 - 44) 2000 40 5:05.85 *start of body suit era
(45 - 49) 2009 49 5:24.13
(50 - 54) 2010 50 5:29.82 not tapered, but in a body suit

Donna
January 18th, 2007, 06:46 PM
Swam in 70's then started back 3 years ago and 40 pounds heavier:

50 Free
1979(18) - 25.9
2005(42) - 31.57
2007(44) - 30.80

100 Free
1979(18) - 56.9
2005(42) - 1:11.54
2007(44) - 1:08.96

500 Free
1978(17) - 6:38.7
2005(42) - 7:02.89
2007(44) - 6:42.42
fully expect to surpass this one soon.

1650 Free
1978(17) - 25:29.2
2006(43) - 24:02.09
finally learned how to pace as an adult. Kid strategy - was go out fast (in a :28 for the first 50) and die.

Donna

CreamPuff
January 18th, 2007, 08:32 PM
Arg.

Note that I've only been in 1 masters age group thus far - (30-34).

100 IM SCY
1:02.6 14 yrs old (1986)
1:03.81 34 yrs old (2007)

50 Fly SCY
27.0 15-18 age group
27.28 33 yrs old (2006)

50 FR SCY
25.0 15-18 age group
25.3 34 yrs old (2007)

100 Fly SCY
58.6 15 yrs old (1988)
1:00.3 33 yrs old (2006)

500 FR SCY
5:25.0 18 yrs old
5:23.35 33 yrs old (2006)

50 BR SCY
32.0 14 yrs old
33.6 34 yrs old (2007)

200 IM
2:11.0 18 yrs old
2:18.58 33 yrs old (2006) - way off I know :rofl:

One interesting thing is that I've never tapered for a masters meet. At most, I've taken a day off before a meet. I'm going to try tapering in August for LC Nationals. (I hate tapering as I go bonkers w/ too much energy and I like swimming for fitness and hate to miss practices which I find to be as fun as meets).

This is pretty neat seeing where everyone is and was. Looks like we're close to our best times even 10, 20 and more years out!! Cool!

richabrahams
January 18th, 2007, 08:58 PM
Here is a listing for 30+ years in masters, 7 age groups.

50 free
Lifetime best 21.4 (hand held, 1965 NCAA's 2d place)
30-34 22.21 age 31
35-39 22.17 age 35
40-44 22.14 age 40
45-49 21.78 age 48
50-54 21.73 age 53
55-59 21,82 age 55
60-64 22.30 age 60 (slowing down)

hrietz
January 18th, 2007, 09:24 PM
50 free SCY
1985 17 years old 26.7
2002 34 years old 26.71
2005 37 years old 26.05

100 free SCY
1985 17 years old 59.2
2002 34 years old 57.49
2005 37 years old 56.42

200 free SCY
1985 17 years old 2:09
2002 34 years old 2:07.54
2005 37 years old 2:04.89

kristilynn
January 18th, 2007, 09:39 PM
Best events 1000 and 1650
Lifetime bests:
1000 10:55.? age 21, 1996
1650 18.25.92, age 29, 2005 (SCY Nat.)

Masters Age Group Bests:
19-24, 1000 10:55.?, 1650 18:30.? (Both swum in college, not masters)
25-29, 1000 11:05.75, 1650 18:25.92
30-31, 1000 11:03.06, 1650 18:30.28

As a Masters swimmer, I've always had to swim the two events on the same day since the only meet I ever go to is Nationals. It would be nice to spread them out one of these days. For 2007 Nationals, I'll have to pick one or the other since we're not allowed to swim both. I can't decide which one to do.

Ian Smith
January 18th, 2007, 09:42 PM
LCM 50 free (sorry no yards)

1961 at 20: 24.9 (no hundredths then)

eased into masters starting 1997:

2000 at 59 (55-59): 28.39
2002 at 61 (60-64): 27.80
2006 at 65 (65-69): 27.95


SCM 50 free (sorry no SCM at 20)

1997 at 56 (55-59): 28.13
2005 at 64 (60-64): 27.04
2006 at 65 (65-69): 27.36

Hope this helps
Ian.

newmastersswimmer
January 18th, 2007, 10:08 PM
50 free
Lifetime best 21.4 (hand held, 1965 NCAA's 2d place)
30-34 22.21 age 31
35-39 22.17 age 35
40-44 22.14 age 40
45-49 21.78 age 48
50-54 21.73 age 53
55-59 21,82 age 55
60-64 22.30 age 60 (slowing down)
__________________
rich abrahams posted by Rich Abrahams


I can see what you mean there rich about slowing down.....maybe if you worked out a little harder from now on you wouldn't suffer from any of these massive slowing down periods again...LOL!!!


As for some of my past times (All in SCY):

100 fly:
As an 18 year old (in 1983) I went 51.8
As a 22 year old (in 1987) I went 50.3
As a 40 year old (in 2004 at SCY Nats) I went 56.4

200 fly:
As an 18 year old I went around 1:55 or so
As a 22 year old I went 1:51.4
As a 40 year old I went 2:06.7

200 IM:
As an 18 year old I went 1:56 something?
As a 22 year old I went 1:53.8
As a 40 year old I went 2:10 something?

200 free:
As an 18 year old I went 1:42.6
As a 22 year old I went 1:40 something?
As a 41 year old (at some USA meet in October of 2005 and torn down as heck), I went 1:58 something?


100 free:
As an 18 year old I went 47.2
As a 22 year old I went 45.8
As a 41 year old (once again torn down as heck), I went 54.2 (ouch!!)

50 free:
As an 18 year old I went 22 low
As a 22 year old I went 21 low
As a 40 year old (at a meet in Kentucky about 5 weeks before SCY Nats in 2004) I went 24.7 (once again..ouch!!)

Well at leat I didn't slow down as much as rich abrahams did over the years...LOL!!

Newmastersswimmer

Peter Cruise
January 19th, 2007, 12:39 AM
Whoops, I blinked and missed Rich slowing down...

The Fortress
January 19th, 2007, 08:21 AM
Whoops, I blinked and missed Rich slowing down...

Good thing I haven't slowed down. I'm a whole .1 faster than I was at 12. :rofl: Oddly, I'm still ranked about the same now as I was then. Not sure what that says.

Kristina: Where's that 400 IM?

Cruise:

Where exactly are those breaststroke times? Surely, there is someone besides Jim doing breaststroke? I seem to recall a lot of loud pontificating and defending of honor from various breaststrokers... So far, we've mostly heard from a lot of sprinters.

meldyck
January 19th, 2007, 12:23 PM
College Swimming (ages 17-18)

(walk on in Division 3, no prior competitive swimming)

100 SCY BR: 1:15
200 SCY BR: 2:50-2:55
1000 SCY FR: NS
200 LCM FL: NS

Master's Swimming

50-54 Age Group

100 SCY BR: 1:13.95
200 SCY BR: 2:43.21


55-59 Age Group

100 SCY BR: 1:17.34
200 SCY BR: 2:49.10
1000 SCY FR: 14:08.50
200 LCM FL: 4:01.30

60-64 Age Group

100 SCY BR: 1:14.58
200 SCY BR: 2:43.63
1000 SCY FR: 13:36.60
200 LCM FL: 3:38.21

It may be worth noting that I was an overweight college student who wasn't very fit. Now, I'm an overweight master's swimmer who is in VERY good shape. Last year, I trained more than 600 hours...

-- mel

KaizenSwimmer
January 19th, 2007, 12:43 PM
500 Free
Lifetime Best 1970 5:12.8
30-34 (1982) 6:07.6
35-39 (1989) 5:36.6
40-44 (1992) 5:27.19
45-49 No Times
50-54 (2004) 6:13.3
55-59 (2006) 5:41.8
Goal for 2007 5:30

1000 Free
Lifetime Best 1970 10:45.?
30-34 No Times
35-39 (1990) 11:32.73
40-44 (1992) 11:23.28 (split on way to 1650)
45-49 (1998) 12:30.?
50-54 (2001) 12:45
55-59 (2006) 11:53.74
Goal for 2007 11:30?

1650 Free
Lifetime Best 1971 18:02.6
30-34 No Times
35-39 No Times
40-44 (1992) 18:53.98
45-49 No Times
50-54 (2006) 20:59.8
55-59 (2006) 19:52.88
Goal for 2007 18:59

The significant difference in my performance is in stroke efficiency in distance events. In college those were 19-20SPL or higher, in my late 30s I raced at 17SPL. In my 40s I raced at 16SPL. In my mid-50s I race at an average of 15SPL. I won't be taking it any lower than this.

CreamPuff
January 19th, 2007, 01:03 PM
Good thing I haven't slowed down. I'm a whole .1 faster than I was at 12. :rofl: Oddly, I'm still ranked about the same now as I was then. Not sure what that says.

Kristina: Where's that 400 IM?

Cruise:

Where exactly are those breaststroke times? Surely, there is someone besides Jim doing breaststroke? I seem to recall a lot of loud pontificating and defending of honor from various breaststrokers... So far, we've mostly heard from a lot of sprinters.

Fortress:

I LOVE that new avatar! Is that your youngest?

400 IM? I NEVER swam it as a kid. I was a die hard sprinter as a kid. Nothing over a 100. And I only swam 200s (and the 500 FR a couple of times) after some major kicking and screaming. I swam 400 IM once as an adult and by some fluke ended up w/a top 10 in the world masters. (Not many people must have swam it that year.) :rofl: So, there's nothing to compare it to.

The Fortress
January 19th, 2007, 01:20 PM
Fortress:

I LOVE that new avatar! Is that your youngest?

400 IM? I NEVER swam it as a kid. I was a die hard sprinter as a kid. Nothing over a 100. And I only swam 200s (and the 500 FR a couple of times) after some major kicking and screaming. I swam 400 IM once as an adult and by some fluke ended up w/a top 10 in the world masters. (Not many people must have swam it that year.) :rofl: So, there's nothing to compare it to.

Kristina:

How'd your coach let you get away with that?!?! I swam the same events almost every meet: 100/200 back, 100/200fly, 200/400 IM, maybe 50/100 free if I was bored. Maybe breaststroke once a year during mid-season.(Never ever swam a 500 or 1650 though. Managed to escape that.) No itsy bitsy little 50s or 100 IMs when I grew up in the rough, tough days of AAU 1970's intensity. You lucked out.

Glad you're trying the 400 IM now. Very brave. I would sooner drink poison.

P.S. I'd take your 2:18 200 IM. I think that would easily land me in the Top 10 in my more elderly age group.

ande
January 19th, 2007, 02:32 PM
if you split the 400 IM correctly
it's not so bad

fly
cruise it, save your legs, lots of air

back
stay in control, fast turns, save your legs, lots of air, feel great at the 200

breast
stay long and smooth, work your turns and push offs
feel good enough to do complete dolphin kick pull outs

free
work it and bring it home as fast as you can
especially turn it on for the last 50,
blast those legs and bring it home


it's much better to swim it that way than to go
"uh oh" I went out too hard and I've got another 200 to go

Ande



Kristina:

How'd your coach let you get away with that?!?! I swam the same events almost every meet: 100/200 back, 100/200fly, 200/400 IM, maybe 50/100 free if I was bored. Maybe breaststroke once a year during mid-season.(Never ever swam a 500 or 1650 though. Managed to escape that.) No itsy bitsy little 50s or 100 IMs when I grew up in the rough, tough days of AAU 1970's intensity. You lucked out.

Glad you're trying the 400 IM now. Very brave. I would sooner drink poison.

P.S. I'd take your 2:18 200 IM. I think that would easily land me in the Top 10 in my more elderly age group.

Julie Roddin
January 19th, 2007, 02:50 PM
Hmmm....let's see what I can remember from my childhood. When I was a kid I hated swimming anything over a 100/200. Now I'm not crazy about swimming anything shorter than 500 free/400 IM. Even the mile in open water feels like a sprint these days!

100 Back SCY
college-1998: 1:00
18-24: 1:08.16
25-19: 1:07.22

200 Back SCY
college-1998: 2:10
18-24: 2:29.46
25-29: 2:20.43
Goal for 30-34: 2:10

400 IM SCY
not sure about high school/college but I bet it was around 4:45ish
Zones 2005: 5:21.14
Zones 2006: 5:04.78
Goal for 30-34: 4:45

And a little open water for fun...
Chesapeake Bay 4.4 mile swim:
1990 (13 years old): 2:03
2000 (23 years old): 2:29
2001 (24 years old): 1:59
Goal for 2007: 1:45 or better

Jeff Commings
January 19th, 2007, 03:27 PM
I'll only post times for my top three masters events that have a USA Swimming equivalent. I'm assuming you only want short course yards times.

100 breast
PR: 1993 (age 19): 53.76
25-29 masters: 55.99
30-34 masters (so far): 56.11

100 back
PR: 2004 masters (age 30) 50.94
25-29: 50.95
30-34 (so far): 50.94

200 IM
PR: 1995 (age 21) 1:48.93
25-29: 1:52.69
30-34: 1:53.03

EyeoreSAM
January 19th, 2007, 03:52 PM
100 back
lifetime best 57.98 (16 years old)
didn't swim from 17 through 29
25-29 (2005) 1:05.29
30-34 (2006-2007 swam last weekend) 1:03.12

200 back
lifetime best 2:07.44
25-29 (2005) 2:19.17
30-34( 2006-2007) 2:15.45

50 Free
lifetime best 24.78
25-29 26.99
30-34 27.01

100 fly
lifetime best 1:00.78
25-29 1:10.99
30-34 1:05.12

200 fly NEVER SWAM AS AN AGE GROUPER
25-29 2:30.86
30-34 2:23.80

200 IM
lifetime best 2:15.34
25-29 2:30.80
30-34 2:26.96

1000 free
lifetime best 10:43.12
25.29 11:22.40

100 breast
lifetime best 1:18.87
30-34 1:22.4

The Fortress
January 19th, 2007, 03:57 PM
it's much better to swim it that way than to go
"uh oh" I went out too hard and I've got another 200 to go

Har, har.

That's why it's better to only have a 50 to go.

Someday, I may have to do this event just to piss you and Dave Barra off. :rofl:

Does anyone find it strange that Jeff is amazing at both breast and back? I thought those were almost mutually exclusive strokes ...

Frank Thompson
January 19th, 2007, 04:43 PM
Har, har.

Does anyone find it strange that Jeff is amazing at both breast and back? I thought those were almost mutually exclusive strokes ...

No. We had this discusson last August and there is a swimmer like Jeff named David Lundberg. I provided the response of Jeff to another thread from last August.


Originally posted by Frank Thompson
The one guy I can think of that has always doubled up is David Lundberg. ... He was at the Worlds this year and swam both 50 Breast and 50 Back plus 200 IM.

Jeff Cummings response:
I wanted to meet him. I saw him as he was warming down from his 50 breast and I was warming up (about 15 minutes between our swims). That's the last I remember seeing him, though if he swam the IM and 50 back, we might have bumped into each other.

I hope to meet him soon to share our common oddity, and to meet someone I remember idolizing at a young age (and now find myself agonizing over his seemingly impossible short course records!).

Allen Stark
January 19th, 2007, 05:09 PM
Yes Jeff is amazing. As to mine,I'm listing only LCM as I don't have any SCM times before age 37 and I don't like SCY. I will say my best 100 SCY breast was done at age 32,not in college. I am also listing only breaststroke as it's all I can remember(or care about)
25-29 100 BR-1:14.05 200BR 2:48.08
30-34 50 BR-32.8 100 BR-1:13.88 200BR 2:45.05
35-39 50 BR-33.63 100 BR-1:14.65 200 BR 2:45.25
40-44 50 BR-33.53 100BR-1:14.85 200 BR-2:47.02
45-49 50 BR-33.28 100 BR-1:15.33 200 BR-2:49.64
50-54 50 BR-33.85 100 BR-1:17.09 200BR-2:52.07
55-59 50 BR-34:66 100BR-1:17.08 200 BR-2:52.11
As you can see I think I should be able to drop my 50 time.

Francesco
January 19th, 2007, 05:25 PM
50 free 100 free
1969 22.1 1969 48.2
1993(40-44) 24.42 1993 53.01
1997(45-49) 24.09 1994 52.88
1999(50-54) 24.41 2000 54.60 dob 12-26-48
2004(55-59) 24.56 2005 54.15

chaos
January 19th, 2007, 06:28 PM
1981 age 16
20yd pool high school

100 fr 54.8
200 fr 2:05.?
500 fr 5:45.?

masters 30-34 age group

100 fr 54.57
200 fr -----
500 fr 5:40.93

masters 35-39 age group (added fly)

100 fr 54.00
200 fr 2:01.4
500 fr 5:30.91

50 fl 25.86
100fl 58.88
200fl 2:16.93

masters 40-41 (still working this age group) focus: ow and distance

100 fr 54.25
200 fr 2:04.16
500 fr 5:31.23
1650 18.58.50

50 fl 26.76
100fl 1:00.12
200fl 2:20.02
havn't had a proper taper since aging up..maybe this year

Muppet
January 19th, 2007, 11:17 PM
if you split the 400 IM correctly
it's not so bad

fly cruise it, save your legs, lots of air

back stay in control, fast turns, save your legs, lots of air, feel great at the 200

breast stay long and smooth, work your turns and push offs; feel good enough to do complete dolphin kick pull outs

free work it and bring it home as fast as you can; especially turn it on for the last 50, blast those legs and bring it home

Sounds all well and good but my breaststroke is bad enough I am going to need to make up for all time lost where I can - fly, back (esp) and free. I think my strategery for tomorrow is to follow ande's advice for the fly, and try to work the back so that I can try to catch the breaststrokers on the free leg. I am pretty decent at holding a good pace to finish off a long race.

SwimRobin
January 20th, 2007, 07:31 PM
I was an age group swimmer and swam year around until I graduated from high school in 1985 as a seventeen year old. I did not get back in the pool until I was 35 years old. All times are short course yards.

50 free

15-18 years old 28.6
35-39 years old 31.2

100 free

15-18 years old 59.8
35-39 years old 1:09.40

200 free

15-18 years old 2:07
35-39 years old 2:27.0

500 free
15-18 years old 5:33.7
35-39 years old 6:30.7

100 breast
15-18 years old 1:16
35-39 years old 1:28.6

200 breast
15-18 years old 2:37.1
35-39 years old 3:11.5

The Fortress
January 21st, 2007, 07:59 AM
No.... I hope to meet him soon to share our common oddity.

No. It's going to take more than a couple examples to convince me that the back-breast super combo is not an anomoly. Even Jeff describes it as an "oddity." I'm sure you have more examples in that encyclopediac brain. :bow: I guess there's Tracey Caulkins off the top of my head. And I'm sure there are some elite IMers that are proficient at both like Katie Hoff. But, apart from the super elite, on this forum and in my own more limited swimming experience and observations, back and breaststroke just typically don't go together. (I know the Raz can do quadrathlons.) That's one reason we have a lot of breaststroke haters and backstroke haters on the forum. (Sorry, Allen, I know you don't like that "hate" word. I use it loosely.)

ande
January 21st, 2007, 11:04 AM
Jeff is an oddity, but the thing is, he's incredible at breastroke and pretty good at back stroke
ie he went 53.7 in the 100 breast and 50.8 in the 100 back
though he cleans up the back sprint events in masters

tracey caulkins swam every stroke well,
katie swims every stroke well too, give her a very well rounded IM
michael phelps has a very good breastroke but it's his weakest when you compare it to his other 3

my breastroke is tolerable
in a college quadrathlon in '85 i did a 50 breast in 27.6
I'd be hard pressed to do one under 30 now
i think my best breast split in the 200 IM was a 32.5, 34.6 as a master
I tend to do better when I do some kicking and a lot of technique work

it's rare to find swimmers who are great at both breast and back

ande


No. It's going to take more than a couple examples to convince me that the back-breast super combo is not an anomoly. Even Jeff describes it as an "oddity." I'm sure you have more examples in that encyclopediac brain. :bow: I guess there's Tracey Caulkins off the top of my head. And I'm sure there are some elite IMers that are proficient at both like Katie Hoff. But, apart from the super elite, on this forum and in my own more limited swimming experience and observations, back and breaststroke just typically don't go together. (I know the Raz can do quadrathlons.) That's one reason we have a lot of breaststroke haters and backstroke haters on the forum. (Sorry, Allen, I know you don't like that "hate" word. I use it loosely.)

SwimStud
January 21st, 2007, 11:12 AM
100 breast
15-18 years old 1:16
35-39 years old 1:28.6

200 breast
15-18 years old 2:37.1
35-39 years old 3:11.5

Hey Robin...we have very close times on these! :D
Are you working on reducing the times still?

swim4me
January 21st, 2007, 11:44 AM
it's rare to find swimmers who are great at both breast and back
ande

When I first started swimming summer league at age 12, the coach tried to push me into backstroke, I am guessing because of my height (just under 6 ft, even at 12) because I can't think of any other reason. However, I naturally excelled at breaststroke, eventually holding the league record for the 100. I suffer through backstroke to get through IM's.

Frank Thompson
January 21st, 2007, 02:16 PM
No. It's going to take more than a couple examples to convince me that the back-breast super combo is not an anomoly. Even Jeff describes it as an "oddity." I'm sure you have more examples in that encyclopediac brain. :bow: I guess there's Tracey Caulkins off the top of my head. And I'm sure there are some elite IMers that are proficient at both like Katie Hoff. But, apart from the super elite, on this forum and in my own more limited swimming experience and observations, back and breaststroke just typically don't go together. (I know the Raz can do quadrathlons.) That's one reason we have a lot of breaststroke haters and backstroke haters on the forum. (Sorry, Allen, I know you don't like that "hate" word. I use it loosely.)

Leslie and Ande:

I can think of 3 USMS Swimmers that have set USMS National records in both strokes off the top of my head. They are Ron Johnson (recently documented in the current US Masters Swimmer magazine) Ron Karnaugh, and Karlyn Pipes-Nelison. I am sure there are other masters out there in the last 35 years that could be put on this list as well. I agree that its rare but not an impossibility. I also think there are more swimmers that make the USMS National Top Ten but are not necessarly record breakers in these combinations but are less than with other stroke combinations.

On the Swimming scene, yes its a rare and at the top levels you won't see it. You never going to get a person swimming like Brenden Hansen and Aaron Piersol as the same person. Same example, of say Natalie Coughlin and Amanda Beard. However, that does not mean that in some of these examples that these swimmers would be poor breastrokers. If I remember correctly, some years ago Natalie Coughlin made Olympic Trial cuts in both breastroke events and Amanda Beard cannot be that weak of a backstroker if she went a 2:11.70 in the 200 IM and got a silver medal.

I think our discussion was that its not an impossibilty but its probably rare compared to other stroke combinations. Ande mentioned Michael Phelps and his performance in the 100 breast against Hansen last week (52.81 vs 54.67) does not make him a poor breastroker. Ryan Lochte has gone 1:03 in the 100 LCM Breast. Two people today that I can think of that have made National teams in the both strokes is Eric Shanteau and Kristen Caverly.

Other people from the past that have been very good at both strokes have been Bill Barrett and Steve Lundquist. They had to be to set American Records in the 200 IM. They might have been World class in breast but there back was good also like Jeff Cummings.

Muppet
January 21st, 2007, 02:52 PM
I can think of 3 USMS Swimmers that have set USMS National records in both strokes off the top of my head. They are Ron Johnson (recently documented in the current US Masters Swimmer magazine) Ron Karnaugh, and Karlyn Pipes-Nelison. I am sure there are other masters out there in the last 35 years that could be put on this list as well. I agree that its rare but not an impossibility. I also think there are more swimmers that make the USMS National Top Ten but are not necessarly record breakers in these combinations but are less than with other stroke combinations.

Karlyn doesn't count - She sets records in everything. :banana:
She's pretty cool, though :D

FlyQueen
January 21st, 2007, 04:53 PM
Leslie and Ande:

I can think of 3 USMS Swimmers that have set USMS National records in both strokes off the top of my head. They are Ron Johnson (recently documented in the current US Masters Swimmer magazine) Ron Karnaugh, and Karlyn Pipes-Nelison. I am sure there are other masters out there in the last 35 years that could be put on this list as well. I agree that its rare but not an impossibility. I also think there are more swimmers that make the USMS National Top Ten but are not necessarly record breakers in these combinations but are less than with other stroke combinations.

On the Swimming scene, yes its a rare and at the top levels you won't see it. You never going to get a person swimming like Brenden Hansen and Aaron Piersol as the same person. Same example, of say Natalie Coughlin and Amanda Beard. However, that does not mean that in some of these examples that these swimmers would be poor breastrokers. If I remember correctly, some years ago Natalie Coughlin made Olympic Trial cuts in both breastroke events and Amanda Beard cannot be that weak of a backstroker if she went a 2:11.70 in the 200 IM and got a silver medal.

I think our discussion was that its not an impossibilty but its probably rare compared to other stroke combinations. Ande mentioned Michael Phelps and his performance in the 100 breast against Hansen last week (52.81 vs 54.67) does not make him a poor breastroker. Ryan Lochte has gone 1:03 in the 100 LCM Breast. Two people today that I can think of that have made National teams in the both strokes is Eric Shanteau and Kristen Caverly.

Other people from the past that have been very good at both strokes have been Bill Barrett and Steve Lundquist. They had to be to set American Records in the 200 IM. They might have been World class in breast but there back was good also like Jeff Cummings.



Eric and Kristen are both IMmers too ... or at least I think of both as IMers, maybe Eric more than Kristen. Phelps, is a freak of nature and the best IMer ever so that is not shocking. Natalie has made national cuts in every event, and Hoff made trials cuts in every event, too ... crazy talent!

SwimRobin
January 21st, 2007, 08:17 PM
Hey Robin...we have very close times on these! :D
Are you working on reducing the times still?

SwimStud.... Yes, I am always working on reducing my times! But, it has been very hard for me to improve my times during the last year.

I have come to accept that the times I swam in high school were in a different lifetime.

Frank Thompson
January 22nd, 2007, 12:27 PM
No. It's going to take more than a couple examples to convince me that the back-breast super combo is not an anomoly. Even Jeff describes it as an "oddity." I'm sure you have more examples in that encyclopediac brain. :bow: I guess there's Tracey Caulkins off the top of my head. And I'm sure there are some elite IMers that are proficient at both like Katie Hoff. But, apart from the super elite, on this forum and in my own more limited swimming experience and observations, back and breaststroke just typically don't go together. (I know the Raz can do quadrathlons.) That's one reason we have a lot of breaststroke haters and backstroke haters on the forum. (Sorry, Allen, I know you don't like that "hate" word. I use it loosely.)

I'm probably showing what a dork I am, but this one got me interested, so like Kevin (Speedo Racer) did with the swim magazine covers, I did with the records for Back and Breast by the same swimmer. During the NFL football games yeserday, I got out the old USMS Rule Books where they have all of the records, and did some research...yes, I'm one of the weirdos who happens to keep them. From 1990 when they listed the Nationals Records there appears to be 20 swimmers who have had National Records in backstroke and breastroke. This does not include swimmers like Jeff Cummings who have won these events at Nationals & World Championships and does not include swimmers who have ranked Number #1 in both of these events, like Jeff, Phil Whitten, and Nadine Day. The list is just USMS recordholders and this list only goes back to 1990 and does not cover people from 1989 on back.

Besides the three I mentioned, these are other swimmers I found that had USMS records in both strokes.

Clara Walker, Jewel Cooke, Ella Peckham, Wally Spence, Tom Lane, Maxine Merlino, Regan Kenner, Sergey Mariniuk, Jim Penfield, Gus Langer, Lavell Stoinoff, Dan Dotterweich, Gail Roper, Mark Chatfield, Aldo Da Rosa, Sarabeth Schweitzer, and Thomas Cureton.

So from this list I would say its not quite the oddity in USMS as one would expect. I am sure this list would be bigger if you took all of the USMS National Meet Champions and the USMS Swimmers ranked #1 in these events in the National Top Ten.

Jeff Commings
January 22nd, 2007, 01:02 PM
Thanks for the compliments, everyone.

Yes, Ande, I am "amazing" in the breast and "pretty good" in the back. But if Eddie had just let me train more backstroke in college, if only to improve my IM, I could have done better. And again, I never shaved a 100 yard back in college, so it's hard to say how fast I might have been then.

People like me are indeed rare. If it were more common, they wouldn't schedule back and breast events consecutively at nearly every meet.

Peter Cruise
January 22nd, 2007, 04:13 PM
Jeff- of course they still would. It is well-known that Meet Directors are slavish worshippers of butterflyers and always slant things in their favour.

Karlene
February 1st, 2007, 03:53 PM
Hi Ande,
Enjoy following the daily workouts on your blog. Almost feel like I'm in the Swim Center with you.

I've only given my sprint free times since backstroke and fly times have slowed considerably since shoulder surgery in 2003.

50 yard free
25.69 1992 age 38
26.00 1994 age 40
26.37 1999 age 45
26.76 2005 age 52
I think my best time as an age grouper was 26.0 (1966 or 67)

100 yard free
57.05 1991 age 37
56.73 1994 age 40
58.26 1999 age 45
59.04 2005 age 52
Best age group time was about 57.5

Look forward to seeing you at Zones in March.

rtodd
February 1st, 2007, 07:47 PM
Started swimming when I was 41 so I don't have alot of data.


50 yd free
28.70 AGE 41
26.45 AGE 42

100 yd free
1:08.76 AGE 41
1:04.00 AGE 42

200 yd free
2:56.98 AGE 41
2:31.39 AGE 42

Glenn
February 1st, 2007, 08:36 PM
500 Free

1970 (20) 5:37.42 Division III Trenton State College (NJ)

1983 (30 - 34) 6:01.0

1984 (35 - 39) 5:55.2

2002 (50 - 54) 5:35.34

2005 ( 55 - 59) 5:33.0 lifetime best

1000 Free

1970 ( 20) 11:56.2

2005 ( 55-59) 11:55.8 lifetime best

born2fly
February 2nd, 2007, 11:16 AM
I started back up at 35yrs old after a 18yr layoff.

personal bests
1985 (Senior in HS)
100 free-47.5
200 free 1:46.xx
100 fly 52.5
200 fly 1:53.xx

Age 35
100 free 51.x
200 free 1:52.x
100 fly 54.5
200 fly 2:03.xx

Age 39
100 free 50.0
200 free 1:49.x
500 free 4:55.x (lifetime best)
1650 17:25.x (lifetime best)
100 fly 54.1
200 fly 1:58.0

Age 40- have not done many meets
100 free 50.2
200 free 1:50x
100 fly 53.8
200 fly 1:59.0

I will have my "big" shave and taper meet in March so hopefully I can drop my times at the 40yr level :-)

Janetswims
February 4th, 2007, 06:06 PM
I've been competing in masters for 15 years. I did age group swimming up through age 16, and some years ago I actually went through my old ribbons to find my best times, with the goal of beating them as a masters swimmer. I've bested them all now except for the following three events in SCY. Here are my progressions:

50 FR
Lifetime best: 25.60 1982 (age 16)
25-29 27.38 1995 (age 29)
30-34 26.05 1999 (age 33)
35-39 25.99 2002 (age 36)
40-44 27.51 2006 (age 40)

100 FR
Lifetime best: 57.53 1981 (age 15)
25-29 1:01.38 1995
30-34 58.25 1999
35-39 58.05 2002
40-44 NT so far

200 FR
Lifetime best: 2:05.06 1981 (age 15)
25-29 2.20.00 1992
30-34 2:10.89 2000
35-39 2:06.68 2003
40-44 NT so far

jim thornton
February 5th, 2007, 12:27 AM
Some of you might not have been around when we discussed age-related swimming declines. One of the guys back then designed a neat program to compare a time at, say, age 51, with a comparable performance at any earlier (when you were presumably stronger) or older (presumably weaker, fatter) age.

New suit technology, better understanding of head position and other stroke mechanics, etc. all throw some wrinkles in here. Anyhow, I had some of my lifetime best swims when I was 49-51, beating my mediocre youngster performances.

It's kind of fun--check it out. http://n3times.com/swimtimes/

In high school,
23.3 in 50 free
52.8 om 100 free
1:56.00 in the 200 free

swam masters after college, but didn't start competing much till 40:

age 40-44
25.32 50
55.6 100
2.05.93 200

age 45-49
23:88 50
52.46 100
1:55.11 200
5:18.96 500
11:18.86 1000

age 50-54
24.05 50
52.83 100
1:55.42 200
5:15.49 500
11:09.24 1000
18:53.69 1650

newmastersswimmer
February 5th, 2007, 12:31 AM
you have a fast 50 and 100 free Jim! I always thought of you as more of a distance/middle distance swimmer for some reason (although I can't say why exactly?)....but you're also equally good at the sprints as well.

Newmastersswimmer

jim thornton
February 5th, 2007, 01:06 AM
Thanks, Jim

You've done some blisteringly fast times. I actually hoped my experience would show that it's possible to improve times even as we slouch towards dotage...


Here's what the calculator would predict for me for the 200


AGE... AMERICAN/FINNISH-------ACTUAL SWIMS

49 1:55.11 ( 1:55.11)---- 1:55.11 my time best

50 1:55.88 ( 1:55.91) ----- 1:55.48

51 1:56.71 ( 1:56.74)-------- 1:57.32

52 1:57.60 ( 1:57.61)-------- 1:55.42

53 1:58.56 ( 1:58.52)------- 1:57.07

54 1:59.58 ( 1:59.46) NOW 54 AND HAVEN'T SWUM YET

55 2:00.68 ( 2:00.45)

So, according to the math, I have one more year (54) where I should be able to break 2:00 in the 200, but then I will start moving over the 2 minute mark. So my goal is not necessarily to get my life time best again, but to beat my predicted times, and possibly get my life-time adjusted PR as I slouch ever more deeply into my dotage....

newmastersswimmer
February 5th, 2007, 03:42 PM
I wonder what the calculator/ program would say about Rich Abrahams?...LOL!! You have already proved by your times over the years that the calculator/program is apparently flawed as a reliable prognosticator.
I think you can still improve on your 200 time....Why not shoot for the
low 1 50's ? Your right on the brink anyway?

As far as my blistering times goes.....you must be referring to my times from highschool/college I presume? ....Even though I was much faster back then, I was still considerably slower than many others here that swam in that same time period....Like Rich Saeger, The Evil/Goodsmith, and Ande for example.


Newmastersswimmer

tjburk
February 5th, 2007, 04:02 PM
1981 (HS Senior)
50 Breast 29.31
100 Breast 1:02.21
100 IM 1:00.80
200 IM 2:09.30
50 Fly 26.70
100 Fly 1:01.20
50 Free 23.70
100 Free 51.00
200 Free 1:56.60
500 Free 5:17.30

2000 (35-39)
50 Breast 32.66
100 Breast 1:12.11
100 IM 1:03.46
200 IM 2:25.26

2003/2004 (40-44)
50 Breast 30.61
100 Breast 1:09.16
50 Fly 26.38
50 Back 32.06
50 Free 23.83
100 Free 54.14

Will be swimming in Auburn in 2 weeks, will be interesting to see how I do.

A.K.
May 29th, 2007, 03:44 PM
Is there a database out there in cyber land that you can search by name for old times? I can't find all my times.

I swam from age 5 or 6 to age 20 (roughly 1/1985)
I didn't start to swim again until 7/2005 and swam until June or July 2006 when shoulder issues became too intense.

100 Br
1984 or 85 at age 20 56.8 and 57.4
2006 age 42 105.26

200 Br
1981 or 82 at age 17 or 18 2:07.+
1984 or 85 at age 20 2:05.+
2006 age 42 2:25.29 changed stroke throughout race and kept asking myself "why did you enter the 200 you fool!?!?!?"

200IM
1981 or 82 at age 17 or 18 1:55.+
Now it's 100IM :D
2006 age 42 59.98

JimRude
May 29th, 2007, 04:01 PM
100 Breast SCY:
55.8 - 1986 (college)

100 Breast LCM:
1:04.0 - 1986 (WC Trials)

200 Breast SCY:
2:02.5 - 1986 (college)

200 Breast LCM:
2:24.? - 1985 (Dutch Nat'ls)

First Masters meet coming up on June 8 - out of the water for about 20 years! :confused:

Glider
May 29th, 2007, 04:04 PM
100 BR SCY
58.59 1981 (21 yo) Div I college
1:07.43 1987 (28 yo) USMS 25-29
1:05.94 2007 (48 yo) USMS 45-49

200 BR SCY
2:10.00 1981 (21 yo) Div I college
2:36.41 1987 (28 yo) USMS 25-29
2:30.25 2007 (48 yo) USMS 45-49

Wow, how did I get sooooo slow? I'm getting there very slowly, but at least it's better than my first go around in Masters...

Mark

phdude
May 29th, 2007, 05:43 PM
I've been lurking here for quite some time, and been thinking about my times, so this thread gave me a chance to finally register and join the discussion

I swam primarily backstroke and freestyle, 100 SCY

1998 (age 14)
50 FR: 23.0x
100 FR: 49.7x
100 BK: 54.53

I quit after the meet where I posted these times, so I'm 23 now and embroiled in graduate school, got back into swimming a month ago to try to lose the weight. I can't join my college's team so I guess that qualifies me to post on this forum, even though I'm just working out by myself in the pool and not affiliated with any team. Either way just reading the boards has been quite helpful.

Times now: (23, SCY, hand timed while wearing board shorts!)

50 FR: 27.8 off a push
100 BK: 1:01.3

Maybe there's hope for me in a couple months :)

jim clemmons
May 29th, 2007, 05:53 PM
Maybe there's hope for me in a couple months :)

There's always hope - it's reality that is sometimes the bummer!

strong440
May 29th, 2007, 09:04 PM
50 free 30.40 1974
100 free 1;08.30 1972
200 free 2;32.35 1975
220 free 2;37.5 1942 high school-age 17
400 free 6;11.00 1971 only year masters had this event
440 free 6;59.99 1942 Northwestern Freshman
500 free 7;26.91 1975
1000 free 16;01.59 1993 kinda new event in masters
1650 free 26;34.60 1973
50 back 48.75 1987 kinda new event in masters
100 back 1;26.70 1972
200 back 3;55.50 1992
50 breast 42.50 1985 kinda new event in masters
100 breast 1;25.30 1973
200 breast 3;12.80 1974
50 fly 39.90 1973
100 fly 1;35.00 1975
200 fly 3;35.61 1988
100 IM 1;19.70 1973
200 IM 3;07.68 1975
400 IM 7;04.83 1993

strong440
May 29th, 2007, 09:26 PM
What I mean is that these are my life time bests in those events with some kind of explanation of why here and there

swimminggirl
May 30th, 2007, 02:32 PM
My freestyle 200 right now is 4:00min. My 50 free is 25sec flat. My 100 free is 1:29. I'm 22 and, I'm going to compete doing the fly in 3 of my events and 2 free events plus a 400 free relay. When I was looking at yall's times I was like good heavens I'm nowhere near where I need to be.
Sincerely, Swimminggirl

knelson
May 30th, 2007, 03:03 PM
My freestyle 200 right now is 4:00min. My 50 free is 25sec flat. My 100 free is 1:29.

Either you made a typo on that 50 time or you're the worst "drop dead" sprinter of all time! :)

I'll take a shot at mine:

200 free
age 17 1:50 (high school)
age 21 1:45ish (college)
30-34 1:52.35 (SC Nats 2004)
35-39 1:50.18 (SC Nats 2005)

500 free
age 17 4:49 (hs)
age 21 4:40 (college)
30-34 5:11.09 (SC Nats 2004)
35-39 5:01.77 (SC Nats 2005)

1650 free
age 21 16:09 (college)
30-34 never swam
35-39 17:48.66 (SC Nats 2007)

swimmieAvsFan
May 30th, 2007, 03:18 PM
200 back
age 16 2:11.19 (age group)
age 20 2:08ish (college)
18-24 2:12.54 (2005 SCY nats)
25-29 2:11.90 (2007 SCY nats)
(i didn't get to swim this much as a kiddo, but it's my fav event as a master swimmer.)


200 free
age 16 1:54.75 (HS)
age 20 1:56ish (college)
18-24 1:58.36 (2005 SCY nats)
25-29 1:58.07 (2007 SCY nats)
(i swam this all the dam time in college, but never tapered, so i think that's why my college best is slower than my best as a kid.)

taking the link posted earlier at face value, i have a legit shot, with hard work of course, to get back down to the 1:56ish range for my 200 free. if i hadn't breathed into my finish at nationals, i would have been 1:57high this year. :frustrated:
(at least i know what i need to work on between now and austin...)

ande
December 17th, 2007, 02:27 PM
thanks to everyone who posted
anyone else want to?

Julie Roddin
December 17th, 2007, 02:51 PM
thanks to everyone who posted
anyone else want to?

I HAVE UPDATES!!!!! I missed my SCM lifetime best last weekend by .06!

100 Back SCM
18 years old: 1:11.53
18-24: 1:17.25
25-29: 1:15.19
30-34: 1:11.59

50 Back SCM
14 years old: 33.14
18-24: 35.22
30-34: 33.62

100 Back SCY
college-1998: 1:00
18-24: 1:08.16
25-29: 1:07.22
30-34: 1:05.03

200 Back SCY
college-1998: 2:10
18-24: 2:29.46
25-29: 2:20.43
30-34: 2:19.32

And a little open water for fun...
Chesapeake Bay 4.4 mile swim:
1990 (13 years old): 2:03
2000 (23 years old): 2:29
2001 (24 years old): 1:59
2007 (30 years old): 1:46

pwolf66
December 17th, 2007, 03:29 PM
50 Free
1984 - 21.26 SCY
2007 - 24.54 SCY

100 Free
1984 - 57.25 SCM
2007 - 1:01.37 SCM

50 Fly
1984 - 27.30 SCM
2007 - 30.29 SCM


I just wish I had taken my swimming seriously back in the day.

Paul

Ian Smith
December 17th, 2007, 03:38 PM
LCM 50 free (sorry no yards)

1961 at 20: 24.9 (no hundredths then)

eased into masters starting 1997:

2000 at 59 (55-59): 28.39
2002 at 61 (60-64): 27.80
2006 at 65 (65-69): 27.95 <=== see new time below


SCM 50 free (sorry no SCM at 20)

1997 at 56 (55-59): 28.13
2005 at 64 (60-64): 27.04
2006 at 65 (65-69): 27.36

Hope this helps
Ian.

UPDATE..........

A teeny 0.05 sec LCM 50 free improvement this year (I'll take any improvement I can get these days)

2007 at 66 (65-69): 27.90

Ian.

poolraat
December 17th, 2007, 04:18 PM
I don't have a back log because I didn't start swimming until 7 years ago. My first meet was 5 years ago as a 50 y.o.

Everything is SCY and 50-54 age group
2005 (53)
50 free 26.81
100 free 59.23
50 back 32.87

2006 (54)
200 free 2:17.03
500 free 6:22.70
50 fly 30.31


I'm now in the 55-59 group now. I find it interesting that my 50's are faster even though the 100's are slower. Is it because my technique is getting better even though my conditioning is not?

2007(55)
50 Free - 26.60
100 free - 100.40
50 back - 32.41
100 back - 1:14.23
50 Fly - 29.86
100 fly - 1:16.21
100 IM - 1:11.53

talne621
December 17th, 2007, 05:07 PM
16 years old
50 free- 34 SCY
100 free- 1:24 SCY
100 breast- 1:38 SCY
17 years old
50 free- 28.6 SCY
100 free- 1:06.3 SCY
200 free- 2:24 SCY
500 free- 7:18 SCY
100 back- 1:15 SCY
50 free- 32 SCM
100 free- 1:14 SCM
200 free- 2:44 SCM
18 years old
50 free- 27.6
50 free- 31.05 SCM
100 free- 1:01 SCY
100 free- 1:12
200 free- 2:20 SCY
500 free- 6:30
400 free- 6:17 SCM
1000 free- 14:16 SCY
1650 free- 23:35
19 years old
50 free- 31 SCM
50 free- 31.55 LCM
100 free- 1:10 SCM
100 free- 1:11 LCM
200 free- 2:41 SCM and LCM
400 free- 5:50 SCM and LCM
800 free- 12:04
1500 free- 23:20

pdjang
December 17th, 2007, 07:34 PM
Hi Andre,
I got back into USMS swimming in 1999 after swimming for an NAIA school in the mid-70's. I'm swim the backstroke and IM; in the summer I race in local triathlons for fun and humility.

BTW, You swam really well at Long Beach. I really wanted to go, but got pretty sick in August. In 1975, I suffered in that pool under Dick Jockums for a summer and swore I would never go back. Well, as an adult, one of my swimming buddies talked me into going and swimming in "Lucy's" meet in 1999 and I have been going ever since. It is really a wonderful meet and the LB Grunions do a great job (all my SCM times are from Belmont Plaza).

Are you planning to do some kind of statistical regression on the times you are collecting or are you just going to report ancedotes of swimmer's experiences for your article? Just giving the left ocular test to the data my fellow swimmers have submitted tells me that age related performance differs greatly between us. I would guess that other factors such as weight gain (loss), training, stress levels, etc would provide a better picture in terms of estimating how performance declines (or does not) with age.

Best wishes for the holidays to everyone!
Philipp

------------------------------------------------------

50 Back SCM
1999 29.45
2000 29.50
2001 29.98
2002 30.35
2003 29.86
2004
2005 30.16
2006 30.64

100 Back SCM
1999 1:03.39
2000 1:02.63
2001 1:03.36
2002 1:03.70
2003 1:03.66
2004 1:06.31
2005 1:04.47
2006 1:03.77

200 Back SCM
1999 2:22.05
2000 2:19.52
2001 2:22.17
2002 2:24.16
2003 2:21.34
2004 2:21.69
2005 2:20.01
2006 2:22.41

200 IM SCM
1999 2:25.70
2000 2:20.96
2001 2:26.36
2002 2:28.46
2003 2:25.84
2004
2005 2:26.01
2006 2:26.73

50 Back LCM
2000 31.57
2002 32.04
2004 31.36
2005 31.81

100 Back LCM
2000 1:08.04
2002 1:09.62
2004 1:09.34
2005 1:08.19

200 Back LCM
2000 2:29.57
2002 2:37.05
2004 2:31.20
2005 2:29.57

50 Back SCY
2001 27.12
2002 26.03
2005 26.76
2006 27.29
2007 27.29

100 Back SCY
2001 58.35
2001 56.71
2003 57.53
2005 57.41
2006 58.24
2007 57.26

200 Back SCY
2001 2:06.10
2002 2:05.47
2003 2:09.14
2005 2:05.99
2006 2:06.74
2007 2:05.93

3strokes
December 17th, 2007, 08:43 PM
Only LCMs in my life.

20 years old in 1963 (2 packs a day)
50 free 27.2 (no 1/100ths back then)
100 free 1:04.2
200 free 2:28 (1:13, 1:15)
400 free 5:15.x
1500 free 25:15.x (Did it just for the heck of it).

No swimming till my stroke in 2001
Quit smoking 2/2/2002

Two mini-strokes 2005, 2007
Sciatica 2005. Extruded L4-L5 disc Sep 2007 ..........:cane:

64 years old in (Feb) 2007
50 free 35.16

2008
Was hoping to do a bit better in Feb as a 65-69 master
as I started incorporating some gym work.:weightlifter:

The Wham: Wheelchair in October, :rant3:

crutches in November, :toohurt:
threw my back last Friday. :cane:
Can't see how I could do well this February 2008 (if I can swim at all) and guess who's in my age group for the next two years?

:bow: Ian Smith :canada: who, at 66, is only 0.7 seconds slower than I was at 20.
Luckily, for my during-the-meet self esteem, it's timed finals (I'll probably be in the first or second heats, he'll be in the last and I'll have the consolation of seeing him swim -if he participates. I hope he does). Forget my regular self-esteem (when results are published), I'm looking forward to seeing Ian's times.

Donna
December 17th, 2007, 09:28 PM
Swam in 70's then started back 3 years ago and 40 pounds heavier:

50 Free
1979(18) - 25.9
2005(42) - 31.57
2007(44) - 30.80

100 Free
1979(18) - 56.9
2005(42) - 1:11.54
2007(44) - 1:08.96

500 Free
1978(17) - 6:38.7
2005(42) - 7:02.89
2007(44) - 6:42.42
fully expect to surpass this one soon.

1650 Free
1978(17) - 25:29.2
2006(43) - 24:02.09
finally learned how to pace as an adult. Kid strategy - was go out fast (in a :28 for the first 50) and die.

Donna

I have to edit this now as my times have dropped drastically on the 500 and 1650:

50 Free
1979(18) - 25.9
2007(40-44) - 30.30
2007(45-49) - 31.46

100 Free
1979(18) - 56.9
2007(40-44) - 1:08.96
2007(45-49) - 1:08.67

500 Free
1978(17) - 6:38.7
2007(40-44) - 6:42.42
2007(45-49) - 6:31.69

1650 Free
1978(17) - 25:29.2
2007(40-44) - 22:53.99

ourswimmer
December 17th, 2007, 11:30 PM
I'll play.

100 SCY backstroke
PR: 1:03.1 (1983, 15)
25-29: 1:13.78 (1997, 29)
30-34: 1:10.75 (1998, 30)
35-39: apparently I didn't swim it (???); I did mostly open water racing the last few years.

200 SCY backstroke
PR: ??? (I am sure I swam it as a teen faster than I did at 34)
25-29: 2:37.82 (1997, 29)
30-34: 2:29.04 (2002, 34)
35-39: 2:39.90 (2005, 37)

200 SCM backstroke
PR: 2:43.06 (2007, 39)
25-29: 2:58.05 (1996, 28)
30-34: 2:55.43 (1998, 30)
35-39: 2:43.06 (2007, 39)

500 SCY free
PR: 5:37.?? (1982, 14)
25-29: 6:06.45 (1997, 29)
30-34: 5:42.08 (2000, 32)
35-39: 5:52.52 (2003, 35)

2.7 mi OW (Donner Lake, California)
PR: 1:07.23 (2007, 39)
25-29: didn't swim it
30-34: 1:09.01 (2002, 34)
35-39: 1:07.23 (2007, 39)

david.margrave
December 18th, 2007, 12:01 AM
age 14
1650 free 19:00.42

age 15
500 free 5:23

age 16
50 free - high :22
100 free - :51

age 35-39
50 free 25.35
100 free 1:02 (scm)
500 free 6:01
1500 free 21:39.20 (scm)

swimmieAvsFan
December 18th, 2007, 08:42 AM
i posted earlier about my 200 back and 200 free, but i had a good 100 back at Colony SCM zones, so i'm going to add that...

100 back (SCM)
age 16: 1:10.88 (age group)
18-24: 1:11.90
25-29: 1:10.46

:woot: lifetime best!

i'm not sure why this is, but i typically do much better in the 100 back in meters (both SC and LC) than in SCY. any theories on why that might be???

pwolf66
December 18th, 2007, 09:18 AM
i posted earlier about my 200 back and 200 free, but i had a good 100 back at Colony SCM zones, so i'm going to add that...

100 back (SCM)
age 16: 1:10.88 (age group)
18-24: 1:11.90
25-29: 1:10.46

:woot: lifetime best!

i'm not sure why this is, but i typically do much better in the 100 back in meters (both SC and LC) than in SCY. any theories on why that might be???

Having seen your stroke, I think it's because you are very long and powerful in the water so a longer distance between walls seems to favor you. Maybe you're not getting the most out of your turns?

Paul

Julie Roddin
December 18th, 2007, 09:25 AM
i posted earlier about my 200 back and 200 free, but i had a good 100 back at Colony SCM zones, so i'm going to add that...

100 back (SCM)
age 16: 1:10.88 (age group)
18-24: 1:11.90
25-29: 1:10.46

:woot: lifetime best!


So it WAS a lifetime best! WAY TO GO! I'm jealous....darn .06!!!! Albatross....

aquaFeisty
December 18th, 2007, 10:27 AM
Fun thread. I swam age group from the ages 12-14, so most of my age group times are as a 14 year old.

All times are scy.

50 Free
Age Group 28.27
High School 28.2?
19-24 27.79
25-29 27.77
30-34 27.64


100 Free
Age Group 1:03.17
High School 1:03.?
19-24 1:02.71
25-29 1:01.79
30-34 1:00.62


50 Breast
Age Group supposedly split a 35.? on a relay as a 13 year old
19-24 36.22
25-29 36.88
30-34 36.23


100 Breast
Age Group 1:20.18
High School 1:20.54
19-24 1:18.80
25-29 1:24.82
30-34 1:23.75



Free is improving, breast is in a decline (though I was shocked by that 50 last spring.) Any guesses as to what age my knees started to go??? :)

Allen Stark
June 6th, 2009, 07:41 PM
I swam in college and have swum Masters continuously since age 25,but today at 60 I swam a lifetime best.There are some caveats:it was in the LCM 200 fly(which I didn't swim at all until my 40s and just started training for it the past few yr) and I was wearing a LZR,but prior best time 3:04 at Worlds in 2006 and today-2:58.82(yes that's a 6 sec drop.)

ourswimmer
June 6th, 2009, 08:24 PM
Wow, way to go, Allen. What a thrill!

And thanks for reviving this. It makes me feel pretty good, because I got to go back and review my data.


100 SCY backstroke
PR: 1:03.1 (1983, 15)
25-29: 1:13.78 (1997, 29)
30-34: 1:10.75 (1998, 30)
35-39: apparently I didn't swim it (???); I did mostly open water racing the last few years.40-44: 1:05.88 (2008, 40)


200 SCY backstroke
PR: ??? (I am sure I swam it as a teen faster than I did at 34)
25-29: 2:37.82 (1997, 29)
30-34: 2:29.04 (2002, 34)
35-39: 2:39.90 (2005, 37)40-44: 2:23.85 (2009, 41)


200 SCM backstroke
PR: 2:43.06 (2007, 39)
25-29: 2:58.05 (1996, 28)
30-34: 2:55.43 (1998, 30)
35-39: 2:43.06 (2007, 39)40-44: 2:41.62 (2008, 40; PR)


500 SCY free
PR: 5:37.?? (1982, 14)
25-29: 6:06.45 (1997, 29)
30-34: 5:42.08 (2000, 32)
35-39: 5:52.52 (2003, 35)40-44: 5:39.04 (2009, 40)

pwolf66
June 6th, 2009, 09:53 PM
50 Free
1984 - 21.26 SCY
2007 - 24.54 SCY

100 Free
1984 - 57.25 SCM
2007 - 1:01.37 SCM

50 Fly
1984 - 27.30 SCM
2007 - 30.29 SCM


I just wish I had taken my swimming seriously back in the day.

Paul
Also, my best race ever was a 20.90 in a relay lead off. First and only time I ever broke 21 in 50y free. Best I ever did in an individual race was 21.26. One of the most frustrating things from my age group career.

New Masters PBs.
Still in the 40-44 AG.

2009 - 50 Free (SCY) - 22.92
2008 - 100 Free (SCM) - 59.17
2009 - 50 Fly (SCM) - 28.83

Ian Smith
June 7th, 2009, 12:23 AM
LCM 50 free (sorry no yards)

1961 at 20: 24.9 (no hundredths then)

eased into masters starting 1997:

2000 at 59 (55-59): 28.39
2002 at 61 (60-64): 27.80
2006 at 65 (65-69): 27.95


SCM 50 free (sorry no SCM at 20)

1997 at 56 (55-59): 28.13
2005 at 64 (60-64): 27.04
2006 at 65 (65-69): 27.36

Hope this helps
Ian.

Glad to see this thread resurrected. Interesting to see other experiences.

Positive updates due mainly to new sprinting oriented coach and B70 (nor sure how much due to each):

LCM:
2009 at 68 (65-69): 27.50

SCM
2009 at 68 (65-69): 26.88

Wondering if Ande is making any sense of the data that's in?

Ian.

onefish
June 7th, 2009, 08:33 AM
SCY

Age 16, 1976:
200 free: 1:43.70

Age 17, 1977:
200 free, gun start: 1:44.09
200 free anchor on 800 relay: 1:40 +/-
500 free: 4:35
1650 free: 15:50

Age 48, 2008
200 free: 1:56.9
500 free: 5:20.4

Chesapeake Bay, 4.4 Mile:

Age 31, 1991
2:23:56 (no wetsuit)
Age 45, 2005
1:48:19 (wetsuit)
Age 48, 2008
Stay tuned, this coming Sunday!

Good luck with your study, would be interesting to find something conclusive or instructional in the survey.

Superfly
June 7th, 2009, 08:34 AM
Hi!
Stats from me (born 1971):
50 breast SCM
1988: 32.14
2007: 31.23
2008: 30.01 (29.01 in the fall in a non-masters comp)
2009: 28.63

100 breast SCM
1988: 1.10.15
2007: 1.09.16
2008: 1.07.34 (1.04.78 in the fall in a non-masters comp)
2009: 1.03.77

Best regards
Per

gobears
June 7th, 2009, 08:53 AM
This is really interesting.

Best 50 Br (college) 30.0 SCY
Best 50 Br (40-44) 33.6 SCY

Best 100 Br (college) 1:04.4 SCY
Best 100 Br (40-44) 1:12.6 SCY

Best 200 Br (college) 2:16.7 SCY
Best 200 Br (40-44) 2:35.6

I haven't competed in very many Masters meets and, as you can see, I'm one of those one-trick-ponies...

tjrpatt
June 7th, 2009, 02:02 PM
AG-Age Group

Yards
200 Free
AG-1:51.00
25-29-2:05
30-34-2:04(from a 500 free)

500 Free
AG-4:51.00
25-29-5:33.00
30-34-5:21.62

1000 Free
AG-10:19.00
25-29-Didn't swim
30-34-11:05.00(from my 1650)

1650 free
AG-17:06
25-29-Didn't swim
30-34-18:33.00

100 Fly
AG-54.00
25-29-1:00.92
30-34-1:00.56(from a 200 fly)

200 fly
AG-1:56.10(Only lifetime best done at college)
25-29-2:19.87
30-34-2:10.31

200 IM
AG-2:03.00
25-29-2:18.06
30-34-2:19.00

400 IM
AG-4:17.00
25-29-4:58.71
30-34-4:44.95

200 Back
AG-2:07.00
25-29-2:22.00
30-34-2:16.32

200 Breast
25-29-2:38.30
30-34-2:31.99

LCM
100 Fly
AG-1:00.00
25-29-1:14.03
30-34-1:08.67(2009)

200 fly
AG-2:13.10
25-29-2:52.40
30-34-2:28.59(2009)

400 IM
AG-I am thinking low 5:00
25-29-5:55.53
30-34-5:41.76(2008)

400 FreeAG-No clue
25-29-5:09.66
30-34-4:54.12(2009)

200 freeAG-No clue
25-29-2:33.93
30-34-2:23.84(2008)

200 IMAG-No clue
25-29-2:41.16
30-34-2:35.87(2009)

SCM(Whatever is the fastest time, is a lifetime best)
100 fly
25-29-1:09.54
30-34-1:11.20

200 Fly
25-29-2:37.69
30-34-2:33.09

400 IM
25-29-5:41.86
30-34-5:28.55

400 Free
25-29-4:54.07
30-34-4:49(from an 800 free)

800 Free
25-29-10:34.41
30-34-9:53.33

1500 Free
25-29-20:12.44
30-34-18:49.50

joseferraz
June 7th, 2009, 04:01 PM
I was not a dedicated swimmer when young, but now I am.
My results in SCM (sorry, I swim mainly in Brazil)

ALL TIMES IN SCM
AGE 50 FREE 100 FREE 50 BACK
15/17 29.30 1.03.80 37.50
40/44 29.20 1.11.00 41.15
45/49 28.96 1.06.45 36.46
50/54 28.36 1.04.23 34.67
55/59 27.16 1.02.48 34.40
60/64 27.50 1.02.82 34.28

stillwater
June 8th, 2009, 11:30 AM
Also, my best race ever was a 20.90 in a relay lead off. First and only time I ever broke 21 in 50y free. Best I ever did in an individual race was 21.26. One of the most frustrating things from my age group career.


It counts.

Ian Smith
January 7th, 2010, 03:31 PM
I’m glad Jim brought up this thread again – another year has past and there have been some minor improvements in the age group (probably the last, with one more year to go)

LCM 50 free (sorry no yards)

1961 at 20: 24.9 (no hundredths then)

eased into masters starting 1997:

2000 at 59 (55-59): 28.39
2002 at 61 (60-64): 27.80
2009 at 68 (65-69): 27.50


SCM 50 free (sorry no SCM at 20)

1997 at 56 (55-59): 28.13
2005 at 64 (60-64): 27.04
2009 at 68 (65-69): 26.88

For those who want to torture themselves, here is a Youtube of the 26.88 (in “HD” you can read the time) done this year in the 65-69 heat at the Canadian nationals:

YouTube- Men's 50 Free Heat 3 (00040)

Next to me is Vinus van Baalen who also swims for San Diego. He screwed up his turn worse than I did. (I turned a bit too far from the wall and lost an explosive push-off) It was one of those slippery plastic bulkheads and you had to turn perfectly square or you’d slip sideways (like Vinus did). A mistake like that in a 50 and you’re dead meat.
Ian.

david.margrave
January 8th, 2010, 12:05 AM
500 free
best: 5:23 1986 age 15
masters: 5:43 2008 age 37

100 free
best: :51 or :52 (don't remember for sure), 1987 age 16
masters: :53.99 2008 age 37

Syd
January 8th, 2010, 08:54 AM
I’m glad Jim brought up this thread again – another year has past and there have been some minor improvements in the age group (probably the last, with one more year to go)

LCM 50 free (sorry no yards)

1961 at 20: 24.9 (no hundredths then)

eased into masters starting 1997:

2000 at 59 (55-59): 28.39
2002 at 61 (60-64): 27.80
2009 at 68 (65-69): 27.50


SCM 50 free (sorry no SCM at 20)

1997 at 56 (55-59): 28.13
2005 at 64 (60-64): 27.04
2009 at 68 (65-69): 26.88

For those who want to torture themselves, here is a Youtube of the 26.88 (in “HD” you can read the time) done this year in the 65-69 heat at the Canadian nationals:

YouTube- Men's 50 Free Heat 3 (00040) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi-2q5CobXg)

Next to me is Vinus van Baalen who also swims for San Diego. He screwed up his turn worse than I did. (I turned a bit too far from the wall and lost an explosive push-off) It was one of those slippery plastic bulkheads and you had to turn perfectly square or you’d slip sideways (like Vinus did). A mistake like that in a 50 and you’re dead meat.
Ian.


Those are great times Ian! I would be really proud to go those times at 50, let alone 68. What do you attribute the improvement to? More training? Smarter training? Better technique?

Ian Smith
January 8th, 2010, 03:07 PM
What do you attribute the improvement to? More training? Smarter training? Better technique?
Syd,
Smarter training, certainly not more.
• For the last year and a half, a new ex-sprinter coach who builds in a personalized, more 50 oriented program for me within my lane of mostly mid-distance swimmers (I can be resting when they are swimming. The coach lets me know where he wants the effort within the sets)
• Almost no reps longer than 150 (the more I train, the slower I get)
• Faster, more intense effort on a few spaced-out target reps within a set (peer pressure from lane mates really helps with this)
• More weights. Ande is so right, this is essential for the 50. You lose muscle mass quickly as you age.
• And, of course, this year, a B70 – great motivation to compete late in the age group (I’m going back to futzing around and trying to stay in shape until I age up)
• I always pay attention to technique – do some drills but not over-do. Am not one of those who pooh-pooh TI – you need some defined base to revert to. Ask the coach what he sees with your stroke when you swim slowly or tired or fast. Fix if broken. Don’t get into bad habits.

Actually, I don’t really see myself as ‘improving’. I am not one of those nearly faster than when at university. Having not swum for some 35 years, I kind of wonder ‘how come I’m so slow now – where did it all go?’ I’m just trying to get to where I think I should be. Being a bit of a slack trainer, I feel there is still room to “improve” but it’s going to mean harder work, dammit.
Ian.

The Fortress
January 8th, 2010, 04:47 PM
Syd,
Smarter training, certainly not more.
• For the last year and a half, a new ex-sprinter coach who builds in a personalized, more 50 oriented program for me within my lane of mostly mid-distance swimmers (I can be resting when they are swimming. The coach lets me know where he wants the effort within the sets)
• Almost no reps longer than 150 (the more I train, the slower I get)
• Faster, more intense effort on a few spaced-out target reps within a set (peer pressure from lane mates really helps with this)
• More weights. Ande is so right, this is essential for the 50. You lose muscle mass quickly as you age.
• And, of course, this year, a B70 – great motivation to compete late in the age group (I’m going back to futzing around and trying to stay in shape until I age up)
• I always pay attention to technique – do some drills but not over-do. Am not one of those who pooh-pooh TI – you need some defined base to revert to. Ask the coach what he sees with your stroke when you swim slowly or tired or fast. Fix if broken. Don’t get into bad habits.

Actually, I don’t really see myself as ‘improving’. I am not one of those nearly faster than when at university. Having not swum for some 35 years, I kind of wonder ‘how come I’m so slow now – where did it all go?’ I’m just trying to get to where I think I should be. Being a bit of a slack trainer, I feel there is still room to “improve” but it’s going to mean harder work, dammit.
Ian.

Congrats, Ian! Blazing fast 50! Enjoyed the vid.

That sounds like a great program. Harder work = less squash and more time in the gym?

Ian Smith
January 9th, 2010, 01:40 AM
Harder work = less squash and more time in the gym?

Thx Fort,
Harder work = do some (12.5's, 25's, even 100's) race pace or 'all outs' every work out (3x a week) and be more often in the gym. Pretty slack, I know.

BTW: congrats on your 50's back & fly! Hope they hold out in the FINA rankings.
Ian.

ande
June 1st, 2011, 05:26 PM
it would be interesting for folks to add their recent times to this

Speedo
June 1st, 2011, 05:44 PM
These are jammer or brief times, or apples to apples :)

50yd Free
18-24: 21.26
25-29: zzzzzzzzz
30-34: zzzzzzzzz
35-39: 22.45
40-44: 22.23 (4/2011)

100yd Free
18-24: 45.91
25-29: zzzzzzzzz
30-34: zzzzzzzzz
35-39: 49.81
40-44: 49.41 (4/2011)

200yd Free
18-24: 1:42.75
25-29: zzzzzzzzz
30-34: zzzzzzzzz
35-39: 1:49.41
40-44: 1:49.64 (4/2011)

ande
November 11th, 2011, 01:01 PM
UPDATE

Ande Rasmussen

50 scy free

1981 17 22.0
1982 18 21.0

1985 21 20.41

1988 25 21.20
1991 28 20.87 / 20.52 USS meet

1995 31 21.06
1996 32 21.46

2004 40 22.44
2006 42 22.36
2007 43 22.30
2008 44 21.43

2009 45 21.76
2010 47 22.22
2011 48 22.23

(in different seasons, I haven't always trained for sprints, but it made a difference when I did)

Ian Smith
November 11th, 2011, 01:11 PM
2011 Update........


LCM 50 free (sorry no yards)

1961 at 20: 24.9 (no hundredths then)

eased into masters starting 1997:

2000 at 59 (55-59): 28.39
2002 at 61 (60-64): 27.80
2009 at 68 (65-69): 27.50
2011 at 70 (70-74): 28.35

SCM 50 free (sorry no SCM at 20)

1997 at 56 (55-59): 28.13
2005 at 64 (60-64): 27.04
2009 at 68 (65-69): 26.88

Ian.

Fresnoid
November 11th, 2011, 03:08 PM
After college, I took a 9 year break, then another 13 year break until SCY Nationals was 4 miles from my house in 2009

500 Free
age 21 4:37
age 31 4:53
age 47 5:04

1650
age 21 16:12
age 31 16:59
age 47 17:44

Allen Stark
November 11th, 2011, 08:09 PM
Yes Jeff is amazing. As to mine,I'm listing only LCM as I don't have any SCM times before age 37 and I don't like SCY. I will say my best 100 SCY breast was done at age 32,not in college. I am also listing only breaststroke as it's all I can remember(or care about)
25-29 100 BR-1:14.05 200BR 2:48.08
30-34 50 BR-32.8 100 BR-1:13.88 200BR 2:45.05
35-39 50 BR-33.63 100 BR-1:14.65 200 BR 2:45.25
40-44 50 BR-33.53 100BR-1:14.85 200 BR-2:47.02
45-49 50 BR-33.28 100 BR-1:15.33 200 BR-2:49.64
50-54 50 BR-33.85 100 BR-1:17.09 200BR-2:52.07
55-59 50 BR-34:66 100BR-1:17.08 200 BR-2:52.11
As you can see I think I should be able to drop my 50 time.

Here is my 60-64 update
50 BR-35.10
100 BR- 1:16.83(shiny suit time,best Jammer time is 1:17.50.)
200 BR-2:50.44(best time in 15 yr.)
I still think my 50 should be faster than it is. Oh well ,maybe as I get older I get better at longer events relative to shorter.

ElaineK
November 11th, 2011, 09:34 PM
Here is my 60-64 update
50 BR-35.10
100 BR- 1:16.83(shiny suit time,best Jammer time is 1:17.50.)
200 BR-2:50.44(best time in 15 yr.)
I still think my 50 should be faster than it is. Oh well ,maybe as I get older I get better at longer events relative to shorter.

:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:
:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
:banana:

Allen Stark
November 11th, 2011, 10:50 PM
:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:
:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
:banana:

What,no:bliss:,:bouncing:,or :groovy:.

MartinK
November 12th, 2011, 07:00 AM
100m back SCM

1:00.0 (21 age)
1:02,7 (master 30-34)

100m back LCM

1:02,3 (21 age)
1:04,9 (master 30-34)

200m back LCM

2:12,7 (21 age)
2:17,3 (master 30-34)

ElaineK
November 12th, 2011, 10:42 AM
What,no:bliss:,:bouncing:,or :groovy:.


Well, you do bring up a good point. I really should have added this one, as well: :thewave:

MartinK
January 22nd, 2015, 10:48 AM
100m back SCM

1:00.0 (21 age)
1:02,7 (master 30-34)

100m back LCM

1:02,3 (21 age)
1:04,9 (master 30-34)

200m back LCM

2:12,7 (21 age)
2:17,3 (master 30-34)

I have to add:

200m back SCM
personal best: 2:08,8 (22 age)
2:11,1 (25-29 at 27)
2:16,1 (30-34 at 31)
2:16,2 (35- 39 at 35)
2:16,7 last week at 36

100m back LCM
1:04,3 (35-39 at 35)

100m back SCM
1:01,3 (25-29 at 27)
1:02,7 (30-34 at 32)
1:02,5 (35-39 last week at 36)