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View Full Version : Geek vs. Gull II, or why I now idolize the Geek and have embraced TI



gull
January 29th, 2007, 08:46 AM
The Geek and I swam head to head this weekend, matching up in the 200 and 500 (in adjacent lanes for both, believe it or not). The Geek won both, beating me by about a second in the 200 and I believe 3 or 4 seconds in the 500. He'd shed 20 pounds since we last raced and shaved (as I did), but he was not wearing a Fastskin. I did swim a personal (Masters) best in the 500, nearly 5 seconds faster than last year, and split it extremely well, but alas it wasn't enough. As the winner, he walked off with a Starbucks gift card and of course this thread.

See you in Austin in 2008, Geek.

SwimStud
January 29th, 2007, 08:53 AM
The Geek and I swam head to head this weekend, matching up in the 200 and 500 (in adjacent lanes for both, believe it or not). The Geek won both, beating me by about a second in the 200 and I believe 3 or 4 seconds in the 500. He'd shed 20 pounds since we last raced and shaved (as I did), but he was not wearing a Fastskin. I did swim a personal (Masters) best in the 500, nearly 5 seconds faster than last year, and split it extremely well, but alas it wasn't enough. As the winner, he walked off with a Starbucks gift card and of course this thread.

See you in Austin in 2008, Geek.

Grats to Geek.
Gull very humble of you to post this accolade...unless it was part of a wager. Well done on your PB too.

aquageek
January 29th, 2007, 09:03 AM
The best part of the weekend was seeing my pal Gull in incredible shape, swimming fast and looking good. We had a great time and the meet was again fantastic. We saw a 34 year old fellow go 20.93 in the 50 free which is fast (to me anyway).

Once and for all, here are the Speedo kings of NC.

KaizenSwimmer
January 29th, 2007, 10:58 AM
I did swim a personal (Masters) best in the 500, nearly 5 seconds faster than last year, and split it extremely well, but alas it wasn't enough.

It's healthy rivalries of this sort that can move us to examine more aspects of how we swim and how our practice relates to our racing goals. I have such a rivalry with BG (who prefers to keep a low profile) -- though only in longer events, he completely outclasses me in shorter races -- and both of us have pledged to keep it alive for the next 30 years and even to swim a 400-419 relay together in 2051.

As I told him when I swam with his Masters group a couple weeks ago, I practice with a "spectral BG" in the next lane every day. The real BG passed me in the final 200m to win the 2-Mile Cable swim in 2005 which led to the "spectral BG" being instrumental to having my best year of swimming ever in 2006 -- for much of which he was unfortunately out of commission with shoulder issues. He's rapidly recovering from surgery and has regained the edge -- he did 4700 to my 4660 for the Hour Swim this weekend, after swimming 2:05 to my 2:17 for 200 Free in separate Masters meets last week. (Ouch!)

BG keeps me honest.

Muppet
January 29th, 2007, 11:21 AM
It's healthy rivalries of this sort that can move us to examine more aspects of how we swim and how our practice relates to our racing goals.

Amen brother! When I first started swimming, this guy, lets call him EddieTheEaglesFan, was swimming with us, and he was a pretty good swimmer and kind of taunted me about me being 18/19/20 and slower than he. It got me motivated pretty good, and I was gunning for him in the 200 free. When I finally beat him, I destroyed him, and though he was peeved, he was very gracious in admitting I worked hard for it and deserved it.

Next target: Ellis, sprinter by nature, becoming distance swimmer by age (~12 years my senior). We started gunning for some ambitious 500 times in '04. Whatever time he went, I was 3-5 sec behind; to make matters more exciting, the next meet we swam, I'd finish with his times from the previous meet and he would just continue the 3-5 second domination. Nationals, he busted out a 5:03, I went a 5:12, which is right about his zone time.
'05 was an interesting year. We were both gunning for sub 5-min. Pretty much every meet, I would take the lead through the 400, only to be overtaken at the end EVERY TIME (the sprinter in him taking over). I became known as Ellis' Bizzatch (less friendly term), and his overtaking became known as "EB'ing."
At '05 nationals, he swam about 20 minutes before I did, lowered his '04 time to a 5:01.93. I of course wanted to beat Ellis, but also wanted to get that 4:59.99. Gunned it and swam like a bat out of hell. Finished 5:01.... 81! YAY!!

We're still gunning for that 4:59.99, pushing each other to the edge to try to get it.
:dedhorse:

SwimStud
January 29th, 2007, 11:24 AM
...does anyone want to be my secret or not so secret nemesis? :dunno:

LOL

jsmwbnc
January 29th, 2007, 11:35 AM
The best part of the weekend was seeing my pal Gull in incredible shape, swimming fast and looking good. We had a great time and the meet was again fantastic. We saw a 34 year old fellow go 20.93 in the 50 free which is fast (to me anyway).

Once and for all, here are the Speedo kings of NC.

I was at that meet in Charlotte too. That guy was awesome that swam the 20.93 his kick was incredible. What heat did you guys swim the 500? I was in the first heat and got 2nd with a 5:19, not a best time but I swam the 100 free right before it.

aquageek
January 29th, 2007, 11:55 AM
We were in the same heat along with you. The first heat is funny in the 500 because you might have pretty significant time variations before the subsequent heats sort of even times out. For instance, you got me by 13 seconds, congrats. I think I heard your bell as I was coming off the 425 turn, which was somewhat discouraging.

I cruised the 100 knowing it was right before the 500. No way was I gonna blow it out with Starbucks on the line!

scyfreestyler
January 29th, 2007, 12:09 PM
No way was I gonna blow it out with Starbucks on the line!

You sound like my wife!

Congrats to both of you. :applaud: :woot: It's things like this that encourage you to continue pushing yourself in practice.

gull
January 29th, 2007, 12:53 PM
It's healthy rivalries of this sort that can move us to examine more aspects of how we swim and how our practice relates to our racing goals.

While the title of the thread was clearly tongue-in-cheek, there is a tie in with Terry's point about process vs. outcome. Our coach emphasizes negative splitting to the extent that he cares as much about how we swim a race as the actual time. Not only was it my fastest 500 as a Masters swimmer, but it was also the best split 500 I'd ever done (31+/33/33/33/33/33/33/33/33/32). Geek takes his races out faster than I do, so I thought I might catch him on the last 100. It was also the first time I'd raced a 500 breathing bilaterally, something I'd been training to do.

thewookiee
January 29th, 2007, 01:13 PM
Geek and Gull,

Congrats on your preformances! Sounds like you two enjoyed your weekend of competition.
What other master's meets on in the Charlotte area?

BruceGianniny
January 29th, 2007, 01:31 PM
Ali needed Frazier
Nicklaus needed Palmer
Gianniny needs Laughlin

KaizenSwimmer
January 29th, 2007, 01:48 PM
process vs. outcome. Our coach emphasizes negative splitting to the extent that he cares as much about how we swim a race as the actual time.

Those splits seem to add up to something just under 5:30. Very impressive. The first step in process orientation is to focus on negative splitting -- and let the result (whatever it is) proceed from that, gaining assurance from knowing that the majority of American and World records from events 400m and above have been achieved with even to slightly negative splits - the advantage to this being that having acidosis occur as late as possible in a distance race is critical.

The second step could be to break the race down a bit further and choose focal points (shifting emphases) or stroke counts for each segment that may help you achieve your pacing goals.

From that point can proceed using training sets and the race warmup itself as "tests" or rehearsals of those tactical plans.

It does feel very comforting to stand behind the blocks before a big race and feel that you have a well-tested and practiced plan that has every reason to succeed.

KaizenSwimmer
January 29th, 2007, 01:53 PM
Ali needed Frazier
Nicklaus needed Palmer
Gianniny needs Laughlin

Bruce risks his heretofore cherished anonymity. Next step - post your goals on-line for the world to read.

Seriously, Bruce is the essence of a "worthy competitor" - one who pushes you to be your best, knowing your success benefits him in turn, because it causes him to reach deeper himself.

I have a small anecdote to relate from Masters Nationals last year. After Bruce spanked me in the 2-Mile Cable swim in July 2005, he became "that guy who beat me." When the 1650 seeds for the scy Nationals were posted on-line I saw we were both seeded in the top 3 with all three times a half-second apart. I spent weeks preparing to race "that guy who beat me" (as well as Mike Fox) hoping to win my first national title. On race day, I forgot all the lessons I'd learned and taught about focusing on process and tried to race Bruce and Mike. I swam poorly. Bruce won easily and Mike finished 2nd. Over the next several days we became well acquainted and on Saturday when we got on the blocks for the 500 I felt I was swimming with a friend. It completely changed the tenor of the race for me and allowed me to much more calmly focus on how I planned to swim each 100 - while remaining aware of Bruce's relative position in the next lane. Bruce still beat me, but I swam one of the best races of my life, dropping 11 seconds from the time I'd done at Zones.

The benefits of friendly competition.

newmastersswimmer
January 29th, 2007, 02:11 PM
...does anyone want to be my secret or not so secret nemesis?

posted by the British Blowfish

I will be one of your nemesises in the 100 or 200 fly Rich if you want.....but NO breasstroke for me....The only amount of breasstroke I'm willing to do anymore is the 25 breaststroke that comes in a 100 IM. Its not just because I hate breaststroke.....it has more to do with the damage to me knees (my left knee in particular). We can race middle distance freestyle or backstroke events if you want....or the 100 IM.


Newmastersswimmer

p.s. Good swims Gull and Geek....Nice to see the rivalry between you guys is still going strong. Isn't Geek younger than you though Gull?

gull
January 29th, 2007, 02:29 PM
Those splits seem to add up to something just under 5:30. Very impressive.

I swam a 5:35--the splits were 33+. Thanks.

Fritz
January 29th, 2007, 03:13 PM
I swam a 5:35--the splits were 33+. Thanks.

Good job to the both of you. Wish I could have been there screaming for the both of you.

SwimStud
January 29th, 2007, 03:23 PM
I will be one of your nemesises in the 100 or 200 fly. We can race middle distance freestyle or backstroke events if you want....or the 100 IM.


Newmastersswimmer


I don't fly or crawl...I am not an insect. I can lay on my back when I'm sleeping. Why do it in the water except when you need a break
I do breaststroke.
:thhbbb:

Seriously though. I'm getting to work on crawl next, then fly, then back. I think a little of all is good for any swimmer. I'll let you know how I do when I can hack 200 free.

aquageek
January 29th, 2007, 03:23 PM
Good job to the both of you. Wish I could have been there screaming for the both of you.

Where have you been lately anyway? Watching you swim is infinitely more exciting than watching my version of swimming.

jsmwbnc
January 29th, 2007, 03:34 PM
aquageek are you doing the meet in durham at the end of march?

The Fortress
January 29th, 2007, 03:57 PM
The best part of the weekend was seeing my pal Gull in incredible shape, swimming fast and looking good. We had a great time and the meet was again fantastic. We saw a 34 year old fellow go 20.93 in the 50 free which is fast (to me anyway).

Once and for all, here are the Speedo kings of NC.

Thanks Geek and Gull for inspiring everyone with your friendly rivalry, witty banter and love of swimming. As you know, I too am a big believer in the secret, or not so secret, nemesis theory.

As for the pic, it is clear that you are both Speedo Kings, and bear no resemblance to the oft-posted (and good for a laugh) Speedo-Man. Well done! :coffee:

aquageek
January 29th, 2007, 03:59 PM
aquageek are you doing the meet in durham at the end of march?

It's possible as that pool is about a mile from my mom's house. But, it's also the week of spring break. Taking my kids to a Master's meet for spring break would make me the least popular dad of all time.

chaos
January 29th, 2007, 05:02 PM
geek, gull,
thanks for sharing the lead up to and results of your race. next time, i will be sure to get my wager in before post time.

Fritz
January 29th, 2007, 05:12 PM
Where have you been lately anyway? Watching you swim is infinitely more exciting than watching my version of swimming.

I had a second, and much worse, shoulder surgery and am taking it very slow.

gull
January 29th, 2007, 05:15 PM
I had a second, and much worse, shoulder surgery and am taking it very slow.

You have been missed. I might have been able to take down the Geek had you been there cheering me on. Good luck with rehab. Remember, it's a long season.

mattson
January 29th, 2007, 05:36 PM
The second step could be to break the race down a bit further and choose focal points (shifting emphases) or stroke counts for each segment that may help you achieve your pacing goals.

Or go with the easier path: introduce Geek to Gull's new "Tonya Harding" technique.
:dedhorse:

The Fortress
January 29th, 2007, 06:00 PM
Geek takes his races out faster than I do, so I thought I might catch him on the last 100.

Maybe this was his "perfect" race strategy knowing that you'd been working on descending sets and pacing? Front-running is a strategy too.

Interesting that Geek is wearing a "Born to Lose" t-shirt with a devil ... I kind of like that shirt. Geek: I'm curious, if you don't mind my asking, what accounts for the 20 pounds loss? Is it the increased drylands and running you've been doing or something else?

gull
January 31st, 2007, 12:11 PM
By the way, in case anyone was wondering, I'm the good looking one.

SwimStud
January 31st, 2007, 12:15 PM
By the way, in case anyone was wondering, I'm the good looking one.


For the record...I wasn't wondering...

:drink:

Paul Smith
January 31st, 2007, 12:39 PM
OK.....something is VERY wrong here;

The Geek & Gull having a little "love fest"....sorry I don't buy it!

A picture of the Geek.....gotta be a fake!

Guys......get back to the trash talk, baiting, sarcasm that we all know and love....and soon!

aquageek
January 31st, 2007, 12:45 PM
Guys......get back to the trash talk, baiting, sarcasm that we all know and love....and soon!

All the nicey nice is wearing on me as well. Having one of the Smiths point it out makes it even worse.

I guess I'll have to go back to making fun of the whiney, sorrow-laden Smith and his fear of foreign swimmers - boo flippin' hoo.

CreamPuff
January 31st, 2007, 06:34 PM
...does anyone want to be my secret or not so secret nemesis? :dunno:

LOL

I'd like to volunteer to be your not so secret nemesis!
I'll let you name the event, time, and place.
I seriously hope it's not breaststroke. But, oh well. . .
I know you're on this breast kick. Sigh.

BTW, would being your swimming muse pay better?

Gull and Geek - loved hearing this story and seeing the pic.
:)

meldyck
January 31st, 2007, 07:04 PM
OK, its time to set the record straight! Smith maximus, above, has claimed that real rivals should NOT engage in mutual admiration. This is like the pot calling the kettle black. I had the chance to train next to the infamous Smith Bros (max and min) last summer and would like to point out a couple of things I noticed. First of all they were extremely polite. No one trying to get in front of the other one getting into the pool. No indeed. It was the old Alphonse & Gaston routine: "After you, Alphonse Smith." "No, you first, my dear Gaston Smith."

Why these guys don't even spit in each other's lanes, a tradition well-revered among other famous Colorado swimmers, as you all may recall.

Let's clear the air on this one. These guys couldn't start a fight in the middle of a barroom brawl.

-- mel

The Fortress
January 31st, 2007, 07:05 PM
A picture of the Geek.....gotta be a fake!

Guys......get back to the trash talk, baiting, sarcasm that we all know and love....and soon!

Well, I for one, think they were both very fit and good looking. That is, however, not a binding legal admission.

I admire the brazen trash talk and sarcasm too, but does Geek have to pick on some poor guy with a shoulder injury? I can think of other worthy victims to pick on .......... like SwimStud.

Well, I see Mel has busted the Smiths. The shoe size banter is just for the forum. I wish Smith Maximus a speedy recover so I can see him say "you first, my dear" to Paul before the 50 free at Nats.

SwimStud
January 31st, 2007, 07:24 PM
I'd like to volunteer to be your not so secret nemesis!
I'll let you name the event, time, and place.
I seriously hope it's not breaststroke. But, oh well. . .
I know you're on this breast kick. Sigh.

BTW, would being your swimming muse pay better?


Kristina as my Nemesis I think you're way out of my league. The Muse idea might work though. Can I call you "Special K?"



I admire the brazen trash talk and sarcasm too, but does Geek have to pick on some poor guy with a shoulder injury? I can think of other worthy victims to pick on .......... like SwimStud.


What did I do to have you get the G-Men onto me? They won't taunt me...they've been reading the forums and realise I'm working on my freestyle now...
LOL:D

CreamPuff
January 31st, 2007, 08:27 PM
Kristina as my Nemesis I think you're way out of my league. The Muse idea might work though. Can I call you "Special K?"



What did I do to have you get the G-Men onto me? They won't taunt me...they've been reading the forums and realise I'm working on my freestyle now...
LOL:D

No way am I out of your league! You're miles ahead on the creative avatar.
And the way you are dropping time by the seconds. . . you'll have me beat in no time! :bow:

Special K is just fine. It's better than Krispy (another common nick name of mine - not sure why).

Hmmm. . . just looked up muse online. I'm certainly not at that level (I was thinking more Sharon Stone in her 40s in the movie The Muse where she annoys everyone). . . How about I send positive throughts your way and do "The Perfect Cheer" for you when we meet at nationals or another masters meet - for inspiration or at least a good laugh? :D I think that is the extent of my "musing" abilities - *A*Musing at best. . .