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SwimStud
January 31st, 2007, 04:02 PM
Ok so time to put this trick into my arsenal. Haven't attempted this in gawd knows how long. Is this about right to start:

See "T" on bottom, finish stroke to hip, start curling head down, take dolphhin kick or freestyle kick to get momentum, somersault with legs bent but not curled (avoid hitting head of bottom), push off on back, start rolling to front, swim away...

Anyone who needs a laugh can PM me for where and when I wil be attempting this...

poolraat
January 31st, 2007, 04:06 PM
Ok so time to put this trick into my arsenal. Haven't attempted this in gawd knows how long. Is this about right to start:

See "T" on bottom, finish stroke to hip, start curling head down, take dolphhin kick or freestyle kick to get momentum, somersault with legs bent but not curled (avoid hitting head of bottom), push off on back, start rolling to front, swim away...

Anyone who needs a laugh can PM me for where and when I wil be attempting this...

GET VIDEO AND POST! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

SwimStud
January 31st, 2007, 04:09 PM
GET VIDEO AND POST! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

LOL

If you want video you have a few hours to get to Bradley airport in CT I'll pick you up.

Last time I tried this I bonked my head...no it wasn't recently. It may explain some things though LOL

poolraat
January 31st, 2007, 04:24 PM
Last time I tried this I bonked my head...no it wasn't recently. It may explain some things though LOL

I can remember what a difficult time I had learning the turn. Took me almost a year to get it consistant. Now (most times) I can nail it at any speed without thinking about it.

Warren
January 31st, 2007, 05:22 PM
I hate flip turns, i hate practicing flip turns, and I'm terrible at them. I had a meet last week and it was the first meet iv had since last july and my flip turns were rusty. Had one of the worst flip turns ever in my 50 free, still managed to go 22.7 but my flip turn was so bad that I probable would have cut at least .5 if it were an average turn.

scyfreestyler
January 31st, 2007, 05:26 PM
I hate flip turns, i hate practicing flip turns, and I'm terrible at them. I had a meet last week and it was the first meet iv had since last july and my flip turns were rusty. Had one of the worst flip turns ever in my 50 free, still managed to go 22.7 but my flip turn was so bad that I probable would have cut at least .5 if it were an average turn.

Don't you use flip turns in practice? I generally try to nail every turn I make whether it's a warmup, paced set, or cool down...practice makes perfect.

Anyhow, 22.7 with a bad turn is pretty good.

Warren
January 31st, 2007, 05:32 PM
Don't you use flip turns in practice? I generally try to nail every turn I make whether it's a warmup, paced set, or cool down...practice makes perfect.

Anyhow, 22.7 with a bad turn is pretty good.

I usually touch the wall with my hand and turn around when I am doing warm up, cool down, drills. I only do flip turns on main sets and some times the main set is not free so it ends up being not that many turns. But the main reason why my flip turns were bad in the meet was because I took a long break after the summer and didn't really train untill january and I have neglected working on turns. I need to dedicate more time to turns.

Seagurl51
January 31st, 2007, 05:35 PM
Rich, breaststrokers don't need flip-turns so you should just stop practicing.

newmastersswimmer
January 31st, 2007, 06:18 PM
Rich, breaststrokers don't need flip-turns so you should just stop practicing. posted by Seagurl

What about the new 50 free challenge between Blowfish and me? I know I suck in the 50 free and all...but hey, If he wants to do an open turn, then All power to him....LOL!!!

Newmastersswimmer

p.s. Nice 50 free time Warren ....especially considering you blew your turn...What I wouldn't do to go 21 or 22 again!!

SwimStud
January 31st, 2007, 06:21 PM
Rich, breaststrokers don't need flip-turns so you should just stop practicing. posted by Seagurl

What about the new 50 free challenge between Blowfish and me? I know I suck in the 50 free and all...but hey, If he wants to do an open turn, then All power to him....LOL!!!

Newmastersswimmer

p.s. Nice 50 free time Warren ....especially considering you blew your turn...What I wouldn't do to go 21 or 22 again!!

I hope to be posting my "entry time" this evening. Open Turn.

ensignada
January 31st, 2007, 08:09 PM
Rich - I have no idea if this link has helpful or accurate info as I have never done a flip turn, but here 'tis: http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/e/x/exk7/FlipTurns.html
This is from the same woman who gave us the 0 to 1650 plan. I'm planning on learning them too, but I think I'll wait until I visit my mom out of town and can be anonymous! There will be no photographic evidence.

Seriously, though - if you practice them in the deep end first, you won't hit your head. Just a thought...

swim4me
January 31st, 2007, 08:14 PM
My sadistic coach was trying to kill me again this morning and after three 'race fast' 100 sprints, immediately told me to do a 400. I could not get any air and could not even turn my enough to breath when I began the 400. After two mouthfulls of water and still gasping from the 3 X 100's I turned on my back (I could breathe that way :D ) for most of the first 25. Then I got yelled at, and switched to free, but did every other turn open for the first 150 (I honestly have not done an open turn since I learned flip turns during my first swim team experience at 12). It really felt awful and I only did it for the extra air. (I usually do exactly what I am told at practice, just had a tough mental spot to get over (can I have some cheese with my whine?:( ) ) Anyway, the point is that flip turns are beneficial on so many levels, speed, strength, 'feel of the water'. Work on them SwimStud, just don't keep hitting your head. I don't think you can take much more:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Muppet
January 31st, 2007, 08:44 PM
Rich,

When I teach the kiddos flip turns, we progress from sumersaults on land to sumersaults holding onto the lanerope (jeff-assisted), and then an attempt at the wall.

One tip of advice, it is not just your legs that get your body around! You should start tucking while you're doing that last armstroke, using that pull to get you moving under. Additionally, a strong core will help with the speed of getting your head under and the legs out. My turns got a whole heck of a lot quicker when I started doing crunches and leglifts every morning on my way to the shower. As a side-effect of these crunches, I started developing Ande and Fort's washboard stomach.
:joker:

nancytris
January 31st, 2007, 09:45 PM
I had never done flip turns and tried a few about a month ago:rofl: :rofl:

I didn't hit my head, barely reached the wall with my feet, ended up (lightly) pushing off the wall onto my side, and after several "turns", getting nauseous. I gave it up. At my stage, there are many other things that could increase my speed -- well, decrease my time to do the yardage --it wouldn't look anything like speed:shakeshead: I had not experienced that sick to my stomach feeling before, and didn't like it.


Good luck Rich -- take care of that head.

Muppet
January 31st, 2007, 10:18 PM
Rich, I thought of another thing... you remember how we all learned how to blow bubbles? We had to hold on to the wall, kick and stick our head in....

To apply to flip turns, do the same thing - grab, kick and start blowing. Blow for 10 sec. if you need some air, breathe to the side like you normally would for free and blow some more bubbles. At 10 sec, let go and immediately start your tuck and do your turn. The distance to the wall is a little closer than normal, but you still should have plenty of room to not hit your feet.
:banana:

SwimStud
January 31st, 2007, 11:00 PM
I started doing crunches and leglifts every morning on my way to the shower. :joker:

Is that like a "Goose-Step" LOL I'm sure that's not what you meant but my silly mental imaging process has me giggling.'

I practiced tonight but did not hit my head. Objective 1 Achieved. I like the idea here too, thanks guys. I managed a couple of light push offs then di one where i intentionall ooked to see where my feet were. I got that right and then dit a half decent one, and got out.
I've got my spot on the bottom picked out, and need to work on the turn and getting the hands to go where they supposed to.

waves101
February 1st, 2007, 08:30 AM
Biggest mistake I see on flip turns is not using your arms correctly. Most people will leave them out to the sides and make a big circle rotation and alot of swimmers will just rely on their kick and core strength to get the over. The correct and easiest way is to flip the palms upright, catch the water and throw it up over your head as you turn. This leaves the arms in the raised position slightly behind the head so when you start to pushoff all you have to do is extend. When done correctly, it makes the turn almost effortless and will also speed you up.

SwimStud
February 1st, 2007, 08:44 AM
Biggest mistake I see on flip turns is not using your arms correctly. Most people will leave them out to the sides and make a big circle rotation and alot of swimmers will just rely on their kick and core strength to get the over. The correct and easiest way is to flip the palms upright, catch the water and throw it up over your head as you turn. This leaves the arms in the raised position slightly behind the head so when you start to pushoff all you have to do is extend. When done correctly, it makes the turn almost effortless and will also speed you up.


Thanks Jeff. That's exactly what I am going to get working on. I was concerned with distance from the wall last night and not smacking my pinkies on the deck.

The Fortress
February 1st, 2007, 09:31 AM
My turns got a whole heck of a lot quicker when I started doing crunches and leglifts every morning on my way to the shower. As a side-effect of these crunches, I started developing Ande and Fort's washboard stomach. :joker:

I saw that Muppet. :dedhorse:

I just want to clarify for the record that Muppet puts me to shame. :banana: :bow: I do not have a washboard stomach. It is just OK, considering I had three kids in my 30s. That does tend to have a bit of an effect. I gotta start doing more crunches and cross-training so I can still wear a bikini next summer without undue embarassment. I cannot speak for Ande. I'm sure he has great abs. Plus, he's weighing himself to the .1 to ensure that. I never weigh myself. I just sorta hope the vessel is in a semblance of the right shape.

Warren:

I cannot believe you are doing open turns. You should be ashamed of yourself.

runner girl
February 1st, 2007, 09:13 PM
I wonder if I'm doing some old fashioned kind of freestyle flip turn. Looking at the pictures on swim.ee, and it appears that when the swimmers feet hit the wall, the swimmer is essentially on their back. I think when I hit the wall I have usually rotated towards my stomach although I'm still on my side. Should I be on my back and then rotate after or during the pushoff?

scyfreestyler
February 1st, 2007, 09:23 PM
On your back during pushoff and rotate thereafter. Sometimes as I get tired and lazy I will begin to roll a bit in my flip and push off on my side.

I have found with turns that the more I think about them the worse they are. If I just swim fast the turns just fall into place. Surely I have posted this somewhere else in this forum but the faster the turn is the better it feels to me.

runner girl
February 1st, 2007, 10:00 PM
I forsee more water up my nose at my next workout as I try to pushoff the wall on my back. My sinuses were already cleared out from trying that SDK stuff. :eek:

Muppet
February 1st, 2007, 10:59 PM
I wonder if I'm doing some old fashioned kind of freestyle flip turn. Looking at the pictures on swim.ee, and it appears that when the swimmers feet hit the wall, the swimmer is essentially on their back. I think when I hit the wall I have usually rotated towards my stomach although I'm still on my side. Should I be on my back and then rotate after or during the pushoff?

Runner Girl,

It depends on who you ask. I think a majority of coaches will tell you to be on your back.

From the way you describe it, I think you and I do the same style turn. At push-off, my feet are about a 45-degree angle left of being 100% on my back, but my body has already started turning towards my stomach as i push. I use the torque of the rest of the rotation to power off the wall. I find that when I push off directly on my back, I have zero power.
:banana:

runner girl
February 1st, 2007, 11:36 PM
I can see the benefit of being on my back because then I could use both legs equally. A couple of weeks ago I remember complaining to one of my running buddies that I seemed to be using my right big toe to take an unusual amount of the load during my turns, so I knew something wasn't right. I think it came up in conversation because of something I was doing wrong running. Hmmm. Maybe my right leg is longer or stronger, or I'm somehow out of balance.

waves101
February 2nd, 2007, 09:15 AM
My belief is that you should not be 100% on your back but rather at the 45 degree angle previously posted. Being to far on your back causes too much twist during the pushoff phase which increases the drag and is anti-streamline.

ensignada
February 3rd, 2007, 09:57 PM
I tried my first flip turns today after swimming. It wasn't as bad as I feared. I'm sure I look drunk doing one and it's probably inefficient as hell, but at least I got started. The guard gave me a couple of pointers and said next time she'd help me pick my spot out. I can only improve (which seems to be my motto for swimming). :p

(My threshhold for accomplishment is pretty low...I was pleased as punch that I came up facing the right direction!)

SwimStud
February 3rd, 2007, 11:36 PM
I tried my first flip turns today after swimming. It wasn't as bad as I feared. I'm sure I look drunk doing one and it's probably inefficient as hell, but at least I got started. The guard gave me a couple of pointers and said next time she'd help me pick my spot out. I can only improve (which seems to be my motto for swimming). :p

(My threshhold for accomplishment is pretty low...I was pleased as punch that I came up facing the right direction!)

Barb I suggest we co-attend a meet where we can wear matching colour swim suits with "This Vehicle Turns Slowly" across the butt!

LOL

ensignada
February 4th, 2007, 10:16 PM
Barb I suggest we co-attend a meet where we can wear matching colour swim suits with "This Vehicle Turns Slowly" across the butt!

LOL

Amen. Although I'll have to figure out where to put my "Student Diver" patch. Maybe on my swimcap.