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USMSarah
February 10th, 2007, 07:25 PM
Hi there. It's been a while since I lifted weights... (college) - and I was wondering...

Since my time is limited and I can't make multiple trips to the rec during the day, would it be smarter for me to lift before I swim or after?

What are your thoughts on a personal trainer to help get started?

I realized that I need to start lifting because of how I swam today at my meet. I've been doing some great work at practice - but I think I need a little bit of assistance.

:joker:

Thanks,
Sarah

Allen Stark
February 10th, 2007, 07:28 PM
While I have heard of people recommending lifting after swimming,I find before is much better for me. Swimming helps me to stretch out and I'm much less sore than the other way. Also I like swimming more so it's dessert.

m2tall2
February 10th, 2007, 08:19 PM
My husband has always recommended to me that I do weights before cardio. Your body gets so worn out from the cardio that it isn't as efficient and can't be pushed as hard to lift weights.

All the age group teams I know have lifted weights before their workout, too.

I have no idea if this is good advice but it's reasonably seemed to work for me.

dvarner
February 10th, 2007, 08:25 PM
As a younger swimmer, we lifted intensely before at least three of our afternoon workouts each week. As I remember, we didn't need much warmup for the swim following those sessions. We all had shoulder problems of one form or another, whether from overdistance, poor form, the weights, or just growth pains I can't say.

You could search the forum, but if I remember the collective wisdom, if one is trying to protect their older shoulders, the weights and associated stretching might not be preferable before swimming.

Personally, I do a short cardio bit as a warmup, then lift weights, then do a longer cardio after. If I swim before weights, I can usually jump right into it without the first cardio because my heart rate is still up there and my shoulders, etc. are warmed up (maybe exhausted, too....).

Good luck,

DV

m2tall2
February 10th, 2007, 08:42 PM
Personally, I do a short cardio bit as a warmup, then lift weights, then do a longer cardio after.

I should have mentioned that part too. I usually give myself a light ten minute warmup before doing any weights. Then do weights. Then a longer cardio afterwards (30-60 minutes).

USMSarah
February 10th, 2007, 10:44 PM
I should have mentioned that part too. I usually give myself a light ten minute warmup before doing any weights. Then do weights. Then a longer cardio afterwards (30-60 minutes).


So, maybe I should jump on the elliptical trainer (with the moving bars to get my arms warmed up) before I start lifting?

Good point about lifting first... the arms won't be as tired.

Thanks!:wave:

Allen Stark
February 10th, 2007, 11:33 PM
I forgot too,definitely warm up completely before weights. I do 15 min stationary bike and 10 min stability ball work before weights and then I start with my light weight rotator cuff work before moving to heavy (for me)weights.

Warren
February 11th, 2007, 01:03 AM
you have to lift before swimming ir you dont want to get hurt.

The Fortress
February 11th, 2007, 08:20 AM
We all had shoulder problems of one form or another, whether from overdistance, poor form, the weights, or just growth pains I can't say.

:rofl: ;)

Just had to have a laugh first as I put on my biofreeze to go to practice.

Now, I lift before I swim if I'm doing both consecutively. (Plus, it burns more calories during the swim if you lift first!) Sometimes I lift and do other cardio on days I'm not swimming. I do rotator cuff stuff well after swimming, if possible.

If you haven't done weights in awhile, you might want a personal trainer so you are using proper technique. Or, you could look at Ande's blog to see what swimming-specific type of weight training he does.

dorothyrde
February 11th, 2007, 08:33 AM
Actually with crosstraining, I find the one you want to have the best work-out in, is the one you want to do first. If you do weights first, the swimming will somewhat suffer because you will be fatigued from weights. If you do swimming first, weights will suffer because of fatigued from weights.

There are also plusses as people mentioned. Weights first, stretch out in swimming, swimming first, be warmed up for weights.

What I do, is I do these things at different times, actually for sake of my time. If I lift in the morning, I swim later in the day. Or I swim early, and lift after work. If I lift within 24 hours of swimming, I always feel a bit fatigued in my swim, just part of it.

The older kids on the swim team and the HS team does lifting twice a week for one of their morning practices, no swimming with it, the time is entirely dryland.

poolraat
February 11th, 2007, 11:38 AM
What specific lifting do you do? Ande had posted what he does what I'd like to see what others are doing for weight training. I'm trying to put together a 30 minute routine that I can do 2 or 3 times weekly. I already do a stretch band routine daily just for my shoulders, but am looking for some additional stuff.

dorothyrde
February 11th, 2007, 01:08 PM
Actually, you all will think I am wacked, but I use video tapes. I specifically like this persons work-outs because she caters towards advanced exercisers and does not have a hokey persona. www.cathe.com

swim4me
February 11th, 2007, 01:08 PM
[quote=poolraat;78162]What specific lifting do you do? quote]

I swim three days a week with my coach and on weekends on my own when I can fit it in. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, I go to the gym first thing in the morning, do 30 - 40 minutes of the stairmill (or ARC or elipse to mix things up) to get my cardio as high as I can do without falling off of the stairmill :D . Then I do one set, as heavy as I can lift (usually the younger guys the lift before or after me use much lighter weights (I am a 44 yo F)) for 8 - 15 reps. I do the leg press, the push row, the pull row (the push and pull rows are much lighter weights than I can do if I just push or pull without the row, the row is more difficult, so I use lighter weights), the ham string lift, leg extentions, lat pull down (in front) and triceps. Then I go through a modified yoga stretch and meditate for 5 minutes before I begin my work day. This takes about 1 hour and I feel fabulous afterwards and can really tell the difference in my muscle definition. (The weights I choose to do for my arms help with free and breaststroke and hopefully butterfly).

born2fly
February 12th, 2007, 02:53 PM
hey Sarah-how did the meet go this weekend? Were there a lot of people there? I love that meet and was bummed I could not swim. I went to the dr on Friday, guess its not as bad as I thought. I have rotator cuff tendinitis in both shoulders. Im on some good anti inflamatories and have 3 weeks of physical therapy ahead of me. Thinking I will take all this week outta the water and get back in next week even though I was told to stay out. Figure I could just do some major kicking and rest the shoulders.

I honestly do not think this injury is from swimming. I think its me trying to me he-man with the weights and doing some not advisable weight exercises with the 25lb dumbells as I try and simulate the butterfly arm motion while having dumbbells. I also have same problem on treadmill where I get on that thing and somehow I think I am a marathon runner, which im not. Sometimes I guess I am a little to over zealous with things and u would think I would learn, but Im one to always push myself.

Anyways, hope to see ya in the pool next week.

greg

newmastersswimmer
February 12th, 2007, 03:03 PM
Sorry to hear about your injuries Greg....Good luck with the recovery...I hope you won't be hampered too much. Kicking a lot is a good idea for maintaining your fitness level (and to improve your kick anyway which is so crucial in fly)....Just curious....what age group are you in? I noticed you listed the 200 fly as your favorite event. Nice choice.

Newmastersswimmer

born2fly
February 12th, 2007, 03:09 PM
I just entered the 40-44 group. I'll survive this shoulder problem,just a minor bump in the road. Who knows, I might even come back stronger after some physical therapy. Kicking will be good for me for a few week. I have a excellent fly kick, but my freestyle kick could use some improvements.

So, maybe after 2 weeks of kicking only my shoulders will have healed then my legs will be all screwed up lol

Its bound to even out at some point.

greg

newmastersswimmer
February 12th, 2007, 03:28 PM
So I guess we're in the same age group and we both listed the 200 fly as our favorite events.....somehow I think you are probably faster than me....but maybe we will get to race eachother somewhere down the road? I probably won't swim any meets untill next short course season....I want to be ready for SCYNats in 2008 (in Austin TX)...so this is the next big meet I am gearing for....I need to lose 40 or 50 pounds between now and then though...LOL!
Nice meeting you Greg.

Newmastersswimmer

born2fly
February 14th, 2007, 04:36 PM
Nice meeting you also. I think my meets are done for a bit. I was planning on not doing any meets this summer. Just wanted to take the summer off from competetion but still continue to train, just not as intense.

I love the 200 fly, anytime ya wanna race, let me know :-)

I went to the physical therpist today. She gave me all kinds of exercises to do. She seems to think that my front upper body is more developed than my upper back causing my shoulders to roll forward giving me pain in da shoulders. Hopefully I can get rid of the pain and be in pool soon :-)

greg

FlyQueen
February 14th, 2007, 04:58 PM
Greg that is super commong among swimmers. Work on your posture. Rows are good, too. Also backstroke, I know, blech, will help to work the opposing muscles.

newmastersswimmer
February 14th, 2007, 06:03 PM
I love the 200 fly, anytime ya wanna race, let me know :-)

posted by Born2fly


Can you give me a "rough" idea what I might be facing here first...I know I made the initial challenge and all .....but what kind of time might I be expecting you to go on a fairly good day (If you don't mind me asking that is).


Newmastersswimmer

USMSarah
February 14th, 2007, 08:19 PM
hey Sarah-how did the meet go this weekend? Were there a lot of people there? I love that meet and was bummed I could not swim. I went to the dr on Friday, guess its not as bad as I thought. I have rotator cuff tendinitis in both shoulders. Im on some good anti inflamatories and have 3 weeks of physical therapy ahead of me. Thinking I will take all this week outta the water and get back in next week even though I was told to stay out. Figure I could just do some major kicking and rest the shoulders.

I honestly do not think this injury is from swimming. I think its me trying to me he-man with the weights and doing some not advisable weight exercises with the 25lb dumbells as I try and simulate the butterfly arm motion while having dumbbells. I also have same problem on treadmill where I get on that thing and somehow I think I am a marathon runner, which im not. Sometimes I guess I am a little to over zealous with things and u would think I would learn, but Im one to always push myself.

Anyways, hope to see ya in the pool next week.

greg

Hey there-
Well, it will be good for you to come and just kick - it will be great for your fly. I'd hate to see you push yourself too far and have to get surgery (but, I'm sure you've gotten that lecture from your Doc). Ha ha!

The meet was fun! It is a great pool (love those blocks)! Dan and I just talked (laughed) the entire time (HE IS SO FUNNY)! He got his national cut in the 50 back (pretty sure). But, I think I'm done with backstroke... my timing is way off and my swims were just, well... sad. No prob, though - I had a blast on the 50 fly! Felt strong! :D

Get some rest and see ya on Monday!
S

born2fly
February 15th, 2007, 11:43 AM
newmasterswimmer- thats right, you did challenge me in the 200fly. On a fairly good day I would be under 2:00. I'll be ready for competetion in the fall. Im taking summer off from meets. Have to much going on. Buying a new house at end of this month, and it has a pool :-) I see lots of verticle kicking with medicine ball in my future :-)

greg

newmastersswimmer
February 15th, 2007, 11:54 AM
Thanks for the reply Greg. You are very fast! I hope your minor rehab goes o.k. (and I'm sure it will and you will be back swimming tons of fly at practice again in no time!)....I don't think I'm quite ready to provide much of a challenge for you in that event (unless you were having a really really off day perhaps and I was having the race of my life...LOL!!) :rofl: :rofl:

But I also like to race people for fun ...and there's nothing wrong with a friendly challenge....especially with someone who is in my agegroup now and swims my favorite event. I'm sure we will meet and race somewhere down the road anyway.....its practically unavoidable at this point.

Newmastersswimmer

SwimStud
February 15th, 2007, 12:03 PM
I went to the physical therpist today. She gave me all kinds of exercises to do. She seems to think that my front upper body is more developed than my upper back causing my shoulders to roll forward giving me pain in da shoulders. Hopefully I can get rid of the pain and be in pool soon :-)

greg


Greg can you not do Breast pullouts and continue underwater doing the fly pull arms coming straight back roughly shoulder width. It should hit rear delt and lats. You can even bend you elows a little to engage more lat--like a pulldown. Just thought...if you want to be in the pool.

born2fly
February 15th, 2007, 04:29 PM
swimstud- I probably could do lots of things in the water that are not hard on the shoulders. However, that being said, I think what I truely need is just rest out of the water. Im type of person where if I went to swim, I would want to go at it. I might consider just the kicking in another week. For right now I am kinda enjoying the break out of the water and sitting around eating bon bons all day :-)

Nathan
February 15th, 2007, 06:01 PM
It depends on your goals; that's the first thing I say to all my clients in trying to help them reach their goals. If your goal is swimming, I would suggest swimming first if you absolutely have to do them back to back. I say this because you don't want to sacrifice your swimming for supplemental training, and weights are certainly supplemental. That's not to say they aren't good for you--they can be fantastic--but I would definitely suggest keeping them in order of priority.

Also, given the rep ranges I generally would like to see swimmers use, doing weights after water training--assuming some nutrition has been taken in between--works just fine.

Warren
February 15th, 2007, 11:20 PM
It depends on your goals; that's the first thing I say to all my clients in trying to help them reach their goals. If your goal is swimming, I would suggest swimming first if you absolutely have to do them back to back. I say this because you don't want to sacrifice your swimming for supplemental training, and weights are certainly supplemental. That's not to say they aren't good for you--they can be fantastic--but I would definitely suggest keeping them in order of priority.

Also, given the rep ranges I generally would like to see swimmers use, doing weights after water training--assuming some nutrition has been taken in between--works just fine.

The reason you lift before swimming is because you are fresh. If you swim before, you tire out your core which you need in lifting. You are setting up for an injury if you swim first. Its the same reason you do ab work at the end of a lifting workout.

Nathan
February 16th, 2007, 12:21 AM
The reason you lift before swimming is because you are fresh. If you swim before, you tire out your core which you need in lifting. You are setting up for an injury if you swim first. Its the same reason you do ab work at the end of a lifting workout.

This, I strongly disagree with. Isolation movements, proper form and rep ranges all allow you to gain benefits from a weight workout post-swimming. If you're in the repetition ranges commonly used by powerlifters, sure, you wouldn't want to workout before that. For the higher ranges I have my swimming clients do, no problems at all.

Warren
February 16th, 2007, 09:43 AM
This, I strongly disagree with. Isolation movements, proper form and rep ranges all allow you to gain benefits from a weight workout post-swimming. If you're in the repetition ranges commonly used by powerlifters, sure, you wouldn't want to workout before that. For the higher ranges I have my swimming clients do, no problems at all.

I agree.

Sprinters need to lift and they can benifit highly from doing power lifts in which case lifting must be done before swimming.

Distance swimmers don't need to lift. Their dryland should be medicine ball, crunchs, push ups, pull ups...and that kind of stuff. This can be done after swimming.

newmastersswimmer
February 16th, 2007, 09:50 AM
I agree.

Sprinters need to lift and they can benifit highly from doing power lifts in which case lifting must be done before swimming.

Distance swimmers don't need to lift. Their dryland should be medicine ball, crunchs, push ups, pull ups...and that kind of stuff. This can be done after swimming. posted by Warren


And of course 12 ounce curl lifting can (and should) be done before, during, and after swimming.

Newmastersswimmer

dorothyrde
February 16th, 2007, 09:58 AM
Warren, I think all swimmers can benefit from lifting in some form. As we age, lifting becomes more important, and should not just be sprinters. Distance folks need it as well.