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Caped Crusader
February 12th, 2007, 11:50 AM
Are there masters swimmers "cheating" at practice?

Like:

Leaving early?

One handed touches on breast/fly?

Using pull buoys?

Kicking whatever they want despite what the workout says?

Swimming free on designated "stroke" sets?

Just wondering. I'm heard some grumbling about the leaving early stuff.

poolraat
February 12th, 2007, 12:03 PM
Are there masters swimmers "cheating" at practice?

Like:

Leaving early?

Using pull buoys?

Kicking whatever they want despite what the workout says?

Swimming free on designated "stroke" sets?




I do it all the time. But I've never heard any grumbling since I'm the team and coach. :joker:

Julie Roddin
February 12th, 2007, 12:11 PM
Are there masters swimmers "cheating" at practice?

I am a cheater. I did all of the following yesterday...

One handed touches on breast/fly? I try not to since I don't want to accidentally do it in my 400 IM that is hopefully going to be under 5:00 at Zones but it did happen on fly yesterday.
Kicking whatever they want despite what the workout says? I always just do flutter kick on my back. Yesterday we did 12 x 75 kick (25 fly on back, 25 flutter on back, 25 choice---I think!?!?) and I did it all flutter kick on my back.
Swimming free on designated "stroke" sets? Not exactly, but I do skip fly or breast every once in a while in IM sets. Again, not so good considering my goals.
Pulling on the lane line on backstroke? Guilty. I did it yesterday once or twice.

As for leaving early, do you mean people who go just a second before the interval? Drives me nuts when I'm going on the same intervals as the lane next to me and I'm about their same speed and they leave early. It stinks to start off a second behind.

I don't have any good excuses as to why I am a cheater. I'm going to make a good effort this week to not cheat...or at least not pull on the lane line. Some of these things though are resulting from the back pain I have been experincing the last few weeks so in an attempt to not make it worse, I bailed on the fly and breast and dolphin kick stuff.

When I was coaching one night, I gave a set of 200 IMs and watched as almost every single person did one hand touches. After the set everyone was ready to warm down and I made them do one more 200 IM with legal turns, breaststroke kicks, etc. and told them that if I saw anyone cheating that they would have to do it again. It was fun to watch everyone be so diligent about their turns!!!

I knew I was a cheater when I was 4 years old. I cheated at pin the tail on the donkey (lifted up the blindfold a little and put the tail right in the right spot) and when my parents told me that I didn't win because I had cheated I threw a tantrum and they had to call all of the parents to come pick up their kids.

The Fortress
February 12th, 2007, 12:17 PM
I'm a big cheater.

First, I use fins a lot when I'm not supposed to.

Second, I do one handed turns on fly and breast at least half the time. But in the "You are the rules dictator" thread, I announced my disapproval of the two handed touch rule. Don't see the need for it. Of course, as someone told me then, these bad practice habits could get me in trouble at a meet. So far, I've been sufficiently Mindful to avoid a DQ.

I try not to leave early. Although yesterday someone in the adjacent lane was leaving a bit early, which was slightly annoying as I was trying to keep up. But no big deal. Usually leaving early just creates a lane clogging problem. Better to stick to the intervals and give everyone their space.

I never use pull buoys though. Although I know people that do when they get tired. I couldn't care less if they do or don't. I could also care less about whether someone is doing the designated type of kick as long as they're doing the correct distance.

As long as you're in the correct lane and not disturbing someone else's practice or disrupting the set, I don't see the big deal about modifying a practice a bit. Why, on Saturday, I just got out and left when the coach announced an 800 free with paddles and fins. So I didn't disturb anyone by being an outrageous slacker.

scyfreestyler
February 12th, 2007, 12:25 PM
Oh, I thought this was about another kind of cheating.

I think Ande wrote about this kind of cheating before...something about eager beaver, early leaver. If you cheat in practice you are only hurting yourself IMHO.

Ivor
February 12th, 2007, 12:25 PM
I think you are all wrong to regard such behaviour as 'cheating'.

Instead it should be viewed as adapting the circumstances to suit the needs of the individual.

Isn't that a far more sensible, mature approach, indicative of masters swimming?

Certainly that's why I always get in half way through the warm-up and never swim breaststroke.

SwimStud
February 12th, 2007, 12:25 PM
Fins *tsk-tsk*

I tend to leave late. If I am really heaving on my intervals I'll take 5 secs more if it's more than a 50. Am I naughty?

scyfreestyler
February 12th, 2007, 12:27 PM
I'm a big cheater.



Oh! Does your family know about this? :dunno:


Couldn't resist...sorry! :rofl:

The Fortress
February 12th, 2007, 12:29 PM
[quote=scyfreestyler;78325]Oh, I thought this was about another kind of cheating.[quote]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Couldn't resist ... sorry!

I think it's safe to say my family knows about my shoulder woes and fin use. I'm a big cheater and a big complainer. But I am not an eager beaver. And I even swim breaststroke when it's specifically assigned.

m2tall2
February 12th, 2007, 12:55 PM
I think you are all wrong to regard such behaviour as 'cheating'.

Instead it should be viewed as adapting the circumstances to suit the needs of the individual.

Isn't that a far more sensible, mature approach, indicative of masters swimming?



Agreed!!!

I sometimes cheat myself by not sticking to my pre-designed workout. I always consider it adapting to the circumstances.

Although ocassionally I feel like I can handle a dose of something extra, so I though that in.

So it all balances out.

Warren
February 12th, 2007, 12:56 PM
I do it all the time. But I've never heard any grumbling since I'm the team and coach. :joker:

same here, I never leave early though

aquaFeisty
February 12th, 2007, 01:33 PM
Early leavers drive me nuts!!! Especially in sets that are on a rest interval - RI - (like 50s with 10 sec RI, as opposed to 50s on the minutes for example). Since we often have many people in our narrow fitness center lanes, early leavers really cram everyone together.

If you do one-handed touches for fly and breast at practice, it may or may not bite you at a meet. I try to always do 2-hand touch, but sometimes miss because I'm experimenting with how close I can cut it. But I think this is a minor infraction, because it's not going to bother your lanemates.

As for my cheating, I do the following:

- 1 arm or free for fly, especially at the end of practice (I've injured my shoulders too many times doing fly at the end of practice)

- when kicking, I often toss in a length of breast kicking, regardless of the assigned stroke. This is out of respect for my lanemates... I'm trying to stay out of their way

waves101
February 12th, 2007, 02:15 PM
Is it cheating if you make your workout up as you go?? And by doing so, I guess I never leave early. Getting to the pool at the time I wanted too is a whole different thread though!!!

newmastersswimmer
February 12th, 2007, 02:28 PM
Pulling on the lane line on backstroke? Guilty. I did it yesterday once or twice. posted by julieopl


That is my favorite backstroke drill in fact...LOL! I also have been wearing paddles and fins togethr lately because I am so overweight, I feel like I'm sinking without these extra enhancements.

Newmastersswimmer

Allen Stark
February 12th, 2007, 02:34 PM
I find on the rare times I go to coached workouts I have to force myself not to cheat.On my own I never cheat,but when I have a coach it's like I'm an age grouper again. One coach I really respect said"listen very closely to what the coach says,but then do what you think is right because YOU ARE A MASTERS SWIMMER."

knelson
February 12th, 2007, 02:40 PM
The only one I do on this list is use a pull buoy, but I call that pulling, not cheating :) I try not to use pulling gear as a crutch, though, but as a legitimate part of the workout.

What about one-arm fly when someone's coming the other direction? I do that, but I guess a true purist might just kick until the other swimmer is past.

As one of my coaches used to point out, "It's masters swimming. You can do whatever you want." You're only going to get out what you put into a workout.

craiglll@yahoo.com
February 12th, 2007, 04:07 PM
I was awimming with some age groupers, one girl was really complaining about a breathing set. I told her that since I was an adult, I could breath whenever I wanted to. The coach told me to swim in my own lane and mind my own business. I swam 25 yds breathing with every arm.

tjburk
February 12th, 2007, 04:12 PM
If you ain't cheatin'....you ain't tryin'!!!!!
If you git caught.....you ain't tryin' hard enuff!!!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

USMSarah
February 12th, 2007, 04:15 PM
I think you are all wrong to regard such behaviour as 'cheating'.

Instead it should be viewed as adapting the circumstances to suit the needs of the individual.

Isn't that a far more sensible, mature approach, indicative of masters swimming?

Certainly that's why I always get in half way through the warm-up and never swim breaststroke.


I agree! I certainly wouldn't call it cheating! We're in masters now and we have earned our right to do whatever the heck we want to (as long as it doesn't interfere with another swimmers workout). If you want to get out early - go for it (these people may have to go to work???). If you need to modify your practice, do so - I have to change stuff up at practice so I don't blow out my shoulder again!! (I'm trying to not sound pi$$y:D).

I don't know if I could ever call myself or my teammates cheaters who make the effort to get up at 4:45am to swim and use fins or whatever to modify a set. It's awesome that they are THERE and working hard!
Every one of you should be proud of what you have accomplished as a masters swimmer! Not too many people can say that they are a competitive swimmer at our age(s)!:D

Take care,
S

The Fortress
February 12th, 2007, 04:19 PM
I was awimming with some age groupers, one girl was really complaining about a breathing set. I told her that since I was an adult, I could breath whenever I wanted to. The coach told me to swim in my own lane and mind my own business. I swam 25 yds breathing with every arm.


Well, there's a reminder of what an even bigger cheater I am. I regularly cheat on breathing sets. I always do bilateral breathing. But if we have a long breath control sets and I'm too winded, I breathe. Not sure how much breath control stuff helps anyway as one of the latest threads revealed. I try not to breathe out of turns if I can. I usually breathe into them so I don't have to breathe out of them. I'm not above "turtling" a turn either, especially if I'm just warming up.

As for one armed fly, I do that if I have to or do more SDKs. It's survival. I don't want to get killed by another flyer. If I stopped to kick, I'd lose all momentum.

I guess my only redeeming non-cheating trait is not leaving early. I also try to coordinate with lanemates on "choice: stroke" sets so we don't run over each other and stay in the correct lane with people of fairly equivalent speed.

It's masters, so anything goes and it's hard to think how a blanket workout wouldn't have to be adapted to the physical capabilities or injuries of different people. If you've got sore shoulders, you may have to skip or drill fly or skip the paddles. If you've got sore knees, avoid breaststroke. If you're training for sprints, you may have to opt out of some stuff like Ande does. I'd also rather think about technique or pacing than worrying about who's wearing fins or pull buoys or kicking the assigned kick stroke. We don't need police at practice too. That has got to be self-policed.

So cheat away like any mature adult. :banana:

In "cheating," perhaps you will make yourself a better swimmer by doing what is most suitable for you and adapt your workouts in the most helpful fashion. If you get DQ'd at a meet, no one to blame but yourself. I'll be sure to report my first DQ so everyone can laugh at me. Wait, I already have. I crawled out of the water on a 100 IM when I lost my goggles and was laughingly handed a DQ slip. At least it wasn't for a one handed touch.

islandsox
February 12th, 2007, 04:57 PM
Gosh, you all have me on this one. I thought the only way to cheat while working out would be to make a U-turn before the turn thereby avoiding it entirely and passing up everyone in your lane. I did that a couple of times when I swam for San Mateo Masters Marlins in California. I did it because I got tired of swimming behind a slow person.

Hey, fins are cheating; they have a wonderful purpose; they get your heartrate up, they strenthen your legs and they help to keep you more buoyant de-stressing shoulders!!!

Donna

Peter Cruise
February 12th, 2007, 05:14 PM
I sin continually, but usually with reason i.e. I have a very bad neck that interferes with some drills etc. What I do to mitigate my sinning is anytime we get a new coach I take them aside and explain that if they see me 'editing' their workout it is not from a lack of respect but necessity. It helps that I have a floating "Doctor's note" (my GP swims in my lane). Otherwise, I find that some 'Cheating' stems from intervals that are too stiff to perform the skills required properly.

The Fortress
February 12th, 2007, 06:40 PM
Hey, fins are cheating; they have a wonderful purpose; they get your heartrate up, they strenthen your legs and they help to keep you more buoyant de-stressing shoulders!!!
Donna

Not clear whether you meant are or aren't, DB. I'm thinking you meant "aren't." But everyone seems to think I'm sorta cheating even when I don't kick much with the darn things. I'm OK with being a cheater. Cheatin's fun. Besides, I now take the liberty of making fun of people that use paddles. I wish I had a GP swimming in my lane like Cruise. That's an unfair advantage. I think it's cheating.

Alternatively, I could order one of those custom made suits with the words "Frayed labrum alert: don't mess with me or risk BickerFest on it." Might be worth the investment. Are we allowed to speak of suits yet? ;) (I'm sure someone will say no ...)

chlorini
February 12th, 2007, 06:55 PM
Am I really the only goody-goody around here? I never "cheat," but I also never begrudge people who modify sets because of injury or personal goals (like when triathletes do an IM set freestyle). I think there must be others out there who follow their coaches' workouts exactly as assigned. And I hope no one yells at me for being honest about this. I know I am very blessed not to have injuries that prevent me from doing certain strokes and drills.

The Fortress
February 12th, 2007, 07:22 PM
Am I really the only goody-goody around here? I never "cheat," but I also never begrudge people who modify sets because of injury or personal goals (like when triathletes do an IM set freestyle). I think there must be others out there who follow their coaches' workouts exactly as assigned. And I hope no one yells at me for being honest about this. I know I am very blessed not to have injuries that prevent me from doing certain strokes and drills.

No, you're not being goody-goody. I think some of us are just joshing a bit. I try not to cheat, although I do one hand a lot of fly/breast turns. I think most modifications are due to injuries and rehab and whatnot. That effects everything you do and what equipment you can use. Some sinning might be just laziness (like my turns) or an off night for whatever reason. A good coach will usually have a lot of different intervals for different lanes. We tend to have days when we focus more on free and more on strokes. (So I tend to avoid Tuesday distance free practice.) Often, but not always, the "stroke" set is choice so people can choose their fav stroke and coordinate with their lanemates.

I think the most important thing is to not begrudge people any necessary modifications and respect your lanesmates. You're doing that. It's courtesy, not goody-goody-ness. You have plenty of time to turn into a craggy, hoary, evil, sinning master when you get older and injured like some of us. :rofl: Meanwhile, enjoy your youth and swim in style.

Got Boost
February 12th, 2007, 09:12 PM
I try very hard not to cheat. Since I am back in the pool for the first time in 4 years I will do some free in place of fly during long IM sets. That is just because I do not have my strength up yet for long yardages of fly. Leaving early on intervals really bugs me. The way I see it is they are there for a reason so pay attention and do the set correctly. But the long and the short of it is I will not say anything to anybody about how they work out. They made an effort to get there and they can swim how they like. If I get fired up it just makes me swim faster and burns some stress.
Got Boost

Caped Crusader
February 12th, 2007, 11:55 PM
I never cheat.

But I usually just do freestyle.

FlyQueen
February 13th, 2007, 12:03 AM
I almost never cheat. I've done a u turn like Donna to get around someone slower, I do this in meet warm-ups more than in practice since I generally swim with people around my speed.

I don't pull on the lane lines, I don't one hand touch, and I almost never modify a set. Ever so often I'll do breast pull fly kick on the breast leg of an IM set or I swim free ... :D but that's usually to catch up to my lanemates ... breaststroke serves no purpose in my life ... :dunno:

I'm a purist for the most part, I don't modify intervals or sets unless I ask the coach and they've either underestimated me or overestimated me ... Last week a coach gave me an interval for a set of 100s back that was better than my PR so I had to change that ...

I do one arm fly past teammates on fly sets and hate every second of it ...

Peter Cruise
February 13th, 2007, 01:02 AM
We had this new girl swimming at our workout. Wouldn't say a thing, wouldn't follow lane etiquette, went whenever she wanted, and like a typical butterflier had no patience for anybody doing breastroke. I snapped her picture to see if anyone knows her...

geochuck
February 13th, 2007, 02:12 PM
Peter are you still cheating in your butterfly, some one said you are using butterfrog and not butterfly.

Peter Cruise
February 13th, 2007, 03:15 PM
George- how can swimming within the rules be cheating? Are you back?

pbsaurus
February 13th, 2007, 04:40 PM
I swim backstroke for a lot of the boring freestyle sets. I also throw in some IM. In order to not slow down my lane mates I will also pull on the lane rope to increase my speed. I rarely leave early, but often start late. Is this cheating?

geochuck
February 13th, 2007, 05:24 PM
Peter I am still in Melaque Mexico. The temperature here is 85 degrees f with the wind chill factor. A very cool breeze off the water, much nicer then the day I left Ladner Nov 15th the wind storm. We made it to Surrey and the storm blew my air conditioner housing offthe motorhome, trees down all over the place. We stayed our first night at Birch Bay Washington 2 hrs after leaving home.

FindingMyInnerFish
February 13th, 2007, 06:50 PM
Since I'm usually in the "breakdown lane" by myself, I have a lot of flexibility about how I adapt sets, and as a slower, less experienced swimmer, I have to adapt to survive sometimes. ;) Still, I try for the spirit of the workout if not the letter: if, for instance, there's a set of 100 IM, I might aim to do every other one with butterfly (NOT pretty!!), while substituting freestyle on alternating sets. I admit I don't like IM sets b/c every swimming weakness I have is broadcast for everyone to see. :o But I figure that if I can become better at the different strokes, I am less at risk for the overuse problems of sticking to just freestyle. (I admit, though, when I work out during regular lap swims, it's just freestyle--in large part to avoid collisions.)

Before I came down with the flu (not practicing lately), I had the idea to ask the coaches in the different practices to help me with the butterfly so I won't look too pitiful doing it. Main feedback was that I was trying to kick and pull at the same time, and that I should focus on the hips... got a little hold on the movement, but still a struggle.

globuggie
February 13th, 2007, 07:40 PM
I try not to cheat, but sometimes it just happens. I never do a one-hand touch for fly or breast. I'm trying to get in the habit of doing flip turns in practice, but I still sometimes get too tired or just forget. I never purposely pull on the lane lines - don't want to start bad habits that would get me DQed. If I'm swimming with my team, I usually only modify sets if I start missing the interval (I'm the slow one in my lane, especially for distance free). If I'm alone, I'll modify every set to what I feel like doing that day. I do have a tendency to leave a little too early on non-free sets and sprinting sets - even with a 5-second gap, I'm usually catching up by the end.

After all that, I feel like we should all be saying, "Hi, my name is ________, and I'm a cheater in practice."

ensignada
February 13th, 2007, 09:54 PM
"Pulling on the lane lines" never, ever occurred to me (I'm so new at this). Would you all talk slower, I'm trying to take notes here. ;)

FindingMyInnerFish
February 13th, 2007, 10:03 PM
"Pulling on the lane lines" never, ever occurred to me (I'm so new at this). Would you all talk slower, I'm trying to take notes here. ;)

:D Right, you and I both!

That thing about pulling on the lane lines: my first masters' coach had me do that as a backstroke drill for getting the arm movement right. But I was always too self-conscious to try it any other time but in his practices, b/c I was thinking the other swimmers would think I was a few kicks short of a wall. ;) Now that I know this is something ppl actually do at other practices, I can boldly grab the lane line. Or not.

The Fortress
February 13th, 2007, 10:17 PM
II never purposely pull on the lane lines -

After all that, I feel like we should all be saying, "Hi, my name is ________, and I'm a cheater in practice."

Hi, my name is Leslie and I'm a cheater in practice.

But I never pull on the lane lines. Doesn't that hurt? Couldn't you cut your hand or something? Is this really an actual drill? I usually can't find any semi-useful backstroke drill except maybe sailboat. Maybe I should add this to my cheating repertoire ...

Who wants to do freestyle all the time? It is not cheating to substitute strokes. That is "mature" modification. A lot of freestyle pisses off my shoulder and backstroke doesn't. Just go to the back of the lane and don't get in anyone's way.

In fact, the only thing I have ever seen really annoy people in practice is leaving early and running over someone (which everyone here resoundingly dislikes), doing a different interval in the same lane (that doesn't work at all) or using fins. I've never had people comment on other cheatin'. It's all about being courteous to lanemates. Well, and I guess some people have easily bruised egos ... Girls shouldn't beat boys, etc.

scyfreestyler
February 13th, 2007, 10:22 PM
I can't speak for USMS workouts but I have seen cheaters in our age group senior team cause a lot of grief for other swimmers. Just recently, a swimmer was not performing a set as assigned and the coach picked up on that. That already tough sprint set has now turned into an impossible sprint set.

Somehow I doubt many USMS swimmers would buy into that though. You are adults, if you want to modify a workout that is fine. Remember, the coach is not paying you but rather you are paying the coach.

FlyQueen
February 13th, 2007, 10:34 PM
It drives me NUTS when teammates just skip out on a part of a set. Especially when they are okay. Cramps or other non-tired pain is acceptable if it is severe enough. I had a teammate stop me during a set the other day because she didn't want to do it and thought that since she wasn't doing the set I shouldn't ... I almost punched her ... :dedhorse: :dedhorse: :dedhorse:

scyfreestyler
February 13th, 2007, 10:37 PM
It drives me NUTS when teammates just skip out on a part of a set. Especially when they are okay. Cramps or other non-tired pain is acceptable if it is severe enough. I had a teammate stop me during a set the other day because she didn't want to do it and thought that since she wasn't doing the set I shouldn't ... I almost punched her ... :dedhorse: :dedhorse: :dedhorse:


Note to self...never do any drop in swims with FlyQueen. :D

The Fortress
February 13th, 2007, 10:37 PM
I can't speak for USMS workouts but I have seen cheaters in our age group senior team cause a lot of grief for other swimmers. Just recently, a swimmer was not performing a set as assigned and the coach picked up on that. That already tough sprint set has now turned into an impossible sprint set.

Now, this I totally agree with. No USS swimmer should ever cheat. Age groupers are totally different. They may change events over the course of their career and the best advice is to listen to their coaches, try different events, follow the practice and do what your coach tells you. Whether you're young or in the "senior" group, which seems to have a flexible meaning. (Although I guess if age groupers are injured, then they may need modification too. They might be "sentenced" to the kicking lane for instance or be denied paddles. Although I frankly think pre-hab is undertaught in USS swimming.)

But that's not masters.

Matt: You finally changed your avatar. I like that one a lot! Yay!

FlyQueen:

Youch. I don't skip out on sets or skip a swim. I may miss a 50 very, very occasionally because of a cramp. I skipped the 800 paddle/fin set at my team's practice on Sat. because I had already done 4000. I can't go more. Don't yell at me. Can a babysister yell at their big sis?

But I don't get it, why should you stop just because she is? That makes no sense at all.

scyfreestyler
February 13th, 2007, 10:41 PM
Now, this I totally agree with. No USS swimmer should ever cheat. Age groupers are totally different. They may change events over the course of their career and the best advice is to listen to their coaches, try different events, follow the practice and do what your coach tells you. Whether you're young or in the "senior" group, which seems to have a flexible meaning. (Although I guess if age groupers are injured, then they may need modification too. They might be "sentenced" to the kicking lane for instance or denied paddles. Although I frankly think pre-hab is undertaught in USS swimming.)

But that's not masters.

Matt: You finally changed your avatar. I like that one a lot! Yay!

I have never seen any of our senior team using paddles, fins, or pull buoys. Come to think of it, I don't recall them using kick boards very often either...rarely I suppose.

As for the avatar, that was the younger of the two kiddos trying to mimic me at a swim meet this summer. She's a real card that kid.

The Fortress
February 13th, 2007, 10:46 PM
I have never seen any of our senior team using paddles, fins, or pull buoys. Come to think of it, I don't recall them using kick boards very often either...rarely I suppose.

As for the avatar, that was the younger of the two kiddos trying to mimic me at a swim meet this summer. She's a real card that kid.

Awww... I guess she takes after her Dad! How old is that one? Is she going to be a swimmer like big sis? I don't think my 6 year will be ... I think I'm one for three on USS swimming -- which of course is fine.

My one swimming daughter doesn't use equipment too much either. I think that's better. All her coaches have had shoulder injuries and they are acutely aware of issues relating to that. Their "kicking" lane is not really a lane per se, and definitely does not involve kickboards. Since I'm "generally" an equipment hater, she's used to hearing my views as well.

FlyQueen
February 13th, 2007, 10:55 PM
FlyQueen:

Youch. I don't skip out on sets or skip a swim. I may miss a 50 very, very occasionally because of a cramp. I skipped the 800 paddle/fin set at my team's practice on Sat. because I had already done 4000. I can't go more. Don't yell at me. Can a babysister yell at their big sis?

But I don't get it, why should you stop just because she is? That makes no sense at all.


No, she actually reached over to my lane and grabbed me to stop me on a backstroke set that she didn't feel like doing it ... I don't like when people just don't feel like swimming a set because they are tired. I only wanted to punch said teammate because she wanted to be lazy and she wanted me to be lazy with her. I didn't want to swim the set either but did anyway.

Skipping out a 50 or 100 from time to time is fine, especially if you get out of your lanemates way. You only hurt yourself when you do that, but my theory is why go to practice if you don't want to work hard?

Fort, injuries are a different thing altogether ...

scyfreestyler
February 13th, 2007, 11:00 PM
I suspect she will be a swimmer..she spent all of last summer in the water with us. But alas, she is only three right now. All in due time I suppose.

The Fortress
February 13th, 2007, 11:03 PM
Skipping out a 50 or 100 from time to time is fine, especially if you get out of your lanemates way. You only hurt yourself when you do that, but my theory is why go to practice if you don't want to work hard?

Fort, injuries are a different thing altogether ...

I agree. When I go to my team practice, I know I'll be super exhausted after because I'll push myself hard. Plus, who wants to be teased for being a whimp? But I guess some people like to socialize. I socialize in the hot tub. ;)

My Sat. practice is tough. I don't usually go. We swim with the college team and the college coach and it's sometimes 6000+ LC. Not everyone stays for the full torture session. At least if I leave early, I'm not disrupting a set or interval.

And, most importantly, I do not disrupt anyone or kick anyone doing butterfrog.

FlyQueen
February 13th, 2007, 11:10 PM
I don't mind the leaving early, if done between sets, or if it has to be in the middle as long as you tell your lanemates and coach ahead of time. I've had to leave early from time to time and I think it's always better to leave early and go then to have not gone at all ...


I don't usually beat my lanemates ... usually being the key word there and I almost never beat drop-ins ...;)

scyfreestyler
February 13th, 2007, 11:13 PM
and I almost never beat drop-ins ...;)

It sounds like showing up hungover would not be wise. :drink:

Peter Cruise
February 13th, 2007, 11:51 PM
Sounds like Heather and I would be duking it out as to whether we should do a breastroke or butterfly set...

newmastersswimmer
February 14th, 2007, 09:51 AM
I don't usually beat my lanemates ... usually being the key word there and I almost never beat drop-ins ... posted by FlyQueen


Well Heather, that is very comforting to know....I guess I can feel somewhat safe now about dropping in for a practice or 2 if I'm ever in the Chicago area.....LOL!:joker: :groovy:


Newmastersswimmer

SwimStud
February 14th, 2007, 09:53 AM
I don't usually beat my lanemates ... usually being the key word there and I almost never beat drop-ins ... posted by FlyQueen


Well Heather, that is very comforting to know....I guess I can feel somewhat safe now about dropping in for a practice or 2 if I'm ever in the Chicago area.....LOL!:joker: :groovy:


Newmastersswimmer

Jim judging by those arms.. looks like you've only been beating yourself! :eek: :laugh2: :rofl:

CreamPuff
February 14th, 2007, 11:01 AM
When I first started masters (and having known only the age group mentality which was very anti-cheating), I was taken aback by all the modifications and things that may be considered "cheating." But, then I slowly started to realize that everyone had different objectives, injuries, physical limitations, schedules, etc., and I now just marvel how dedicated these masters are to make the effort to swim and get into the pool.

It now truly does not bother me when lanemates need to add fins or swim free during IM or whatever to join in on the set.

What does bug the heck out of me? People who swim while highly contageous (like with bronchitis for example). Arg! Don't they care that they are infecting everyone in the pool!? I make an effort to stay away when sick. :frustrated:

ande
February 14th, 2007, 03:44 PM
i think it's more of a problem if swimmers are

cheating after practice (or before)

ande

FlyQueen
February 14th, 2007, 04:24 PM
When I first started masters (and having known only the age group mentality which was very anti-cheating), I was taken aback by all the modifications and things that may be considered "cheating." But, then I slowly started to realize that everyone had different objectives, injuries, physical limitations, schedules, etc., and I now just marvel how dedicated these masters are to make the effort to swim and get into the pool.

It now truly does not bother me when lanemates need to add fins or swim free during IM or whatever to join in on the set.

What does bug the heck out of me? People who swim while highly contageous (like with bronchitis for example). Arg! Don't they care that they are infecting everyone in the pool!? I make an effort to stay away when sick. :frustrated:

I think I still have a bit of the age grouper mentality. I don't mind modifications, I mind just standing there against the wall, especially when you are in the way. If you are sitting part or even all of a set out move to the side don't stand in the middle of the lane or wall. The other day during warm-ups three of my favorite lane mates & people were standing talking all over the lane which made it nearly impossible to swim. I don't care if you don't want to do the set or warm-up, just don't prevent others from doing it. I think that's rude.

Muppet
February 15th, 2007, 12:23 AM
i think it's more of a problem if swimmers are

cheating after practice (or before)

ande

Amen, Brother.


I rarely pull on lanelines during backstroke, but I almost always do 1 hand touches during IM sets. Oddly enough, any time I want to go fast (or am doing a sprint, I do it legally. :banana:

islandsox
February 15th, 2007, 12:55 PM
Not clear whether you meant are or aren't, DB. I'm thinking you meant "aren't." But everyone seems to think I'm sorta cheating even when I don't kick much with the darn things. I'm OK with being a cheater. Cheatin's fun. Besides, I now take the liberty of making fun of people that use paddles. I wish I had a GP swimming in my lane like Cruise. That's an unfair advantage. I think it's cheating.

Alternatively, I could order one of those custom made suits with the words "Frayed labrum alert: don't mess with me or risk BickerFest on it." Might be worth the investment. Are we allowed to speak of suits yet? ;) (I'm sure someone will say no ...)

Oops, I mean't fins AREN't cheating, was typing faster than I was swimming again. And, I don't cheat on my breath control sets; I just change the pattern slightly so I can manage the set, so that ain't cheating; it's called changing the set:thhbbb:

Donna

poolraat
February 15th, 2007, 01:00 PM
i think it's more of a problem if swimmers are

cheating after practice (or before)

ande

If you're cheating after practice, you must not be working hard enough during practice and therefore you must be cheating during practice also.:joker:

Redbird Alum
February 15th, 2007, 01:34 PM
That thing about pulling on the lane lines: my first masters' coach had me do that as a backstroke drill for getting the arm movement right.

Fish -

Exactly what arm movement was the coach trying to get right? Backstroke involves some shoulder roll and a much deeper placement of the forearm pull than the three inches (max) of depth you would get in a lane line pull.

Donna
February 15th, 2007, 04:38 PM
Guilty as charged. For me it is using Paddles and Bouy or as of today Fins.

Unfortunately I am between 2 lanes speed wise. I am too fast for the group holding the 1:40 base but can barely make the 1:20 base interval. I tried to move my lane to 1:30 but there is only one other person who can handle it and he is not always there. Since lanes were so crowded today I opted to move up to the 1:20 group and add fins.

Basically I am just not trying to make waves.

Donna

poolraat
February 17th, 2007, 12:11 PM
I got to workout with a team today and saw firsthand all the different ways to cheat.
Now I know what to do when the set gets too hard or I just don't feel like working hard.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

FindingMyInnerFish
February 17th, 2007, 06:15 PM
Fish -

Exactly what arm movement was the coach trying to get right? Backstroke involves some shoulder roll and a much deeper placement of the forearm pull than the three inches (max) of depth you would get in a lane line pull.

Have to admit it's been a long enough time ago that I don't remember now the underlying purpose. Has anyone else's coach asked him/her to pull the lane line as part of a practice?