Video from zones

[SwimStud]

I have:
Muppet vs ME 50 BR
Me 50 FR
Me 50 BK (comedy)
Me 100BR
Fortress 50 BK
Muppet 200 FL

If you want to see any of these let me know I'll have to email as youtube hates me. If you want to see either Muppets or Fortress' races I'll need an OK from them.

Ensignada great job. Thanks for getting my 100BR too!

[Peter Cruise]

I'll look at your 50 & 100 brst. Where is your 200 brst?

[SwimStud]

I'll look at your 50 & 100 brst. Where is your 200 brst?

no video of that as far as I am aware much to the pity...the 150 mark was very controversial. I'd love some input into my style of rapid turnover sprint finishng. PM your email Peter I'll get them out.

[Seagurl51]

Send 'em to me Rich!! I wanna see what I missed.

[Muppet]

Wow, Rich absolutely destroyed me on the back half of the 50br. I didn't see how bad it was until this evening. WOW. At some point it was decided that I should just kick my way through that race, utilizing my streamline. After seeing Rich's rapid-fire beatdown from that perspective, I think I need to rethink my strategery.
Congratulations again Rich! Man, this is humbling!:drink: :applaud: :bow: :notworthy:

[SwimStud]

Wow, Rich absolutely destroyed me on the back half of the 50br. I didn't see how bad it was until this evening. WOW. At some point it was decided that I should just kick my way through that race, utilizing my streamline. After seeing Rich's rapid-fire beatdown from that perspective, I think I need to rethink my strategery.
Congratulations again Rich! Man, this is humbling!:drink: :applaud: :bow: :notworthy:

It was still quite tight Jeff...I'd have loved a blockside view vid too though..

[The Fortress]

Thanks for the email vids, Rich. Oh, you can send me that 50 breast too please! I don't know what Muppet was thinking, doing nothing but streamlining on a 50. :thhbbb:

I watched your 50 free. Same story. Great second length! Did you sneak a breath on the start and turn though? It looked like you really sped up once you found your rhythm. Gotta work on starts and get off the block faster. You're a sprinter. C'mon. Embrace it.

I watched my 50 back too. I have almost never seen my swims on video. Our video camera was broken forever and I usually go to meets alone. But I think I should have SDK'd more. LOL. I can only say that I was very tired, as that was my 5th event of the day. Thanks, Barb, for capturing that ugly gliding in finish. :laugh2: Argh. I don't want to be a backstroker anymore. Flags scare me. (No, folks, do not suggest BR. I'd rather do the 100 free now and be even more like my twin.:eek:) Also, I had absolutely no kick whatsoever. What was I thinking? I guess I wasn't. I was too blurry. I'm going to work on my backstroke kick now. Good god. Big, big contrast to my 50 free where I remembered to kick. Big time sophomore mistake.

[swimshark]

Rich, I'd lvoe to see what was on the other end of the pool. Can you send me the videos, please?

Fort, I hate to say it but breast is best :p

Alison

[SwimStud]

Rich, I'd lvoe to see what was on the other end of the pool. Can you send me the videos, please?

Fort, I hate to say it but breast is best :p

Alison

Will do tonight Alison...as they are at home PC. Do you want everything?

[some_girl]

Send, send!

[The Fortress]

Wow, I just watched the 50 breast showdown. Very cool. Fast hands, Rich! :applaud: Just like Allen. I still think you should track start if your back can take it. You'd get off the blocks faster, I think.

I watched your 50 back video too. First, I would like to congratulate you for, unlike me, actually having a kick. Yay! It really wasn't that bad. You're doing that snow angel thing that FlyQueen does on backstroke and not bending your elbows under the water and you're overreaching a bit. Gotta rotate more too. Do the sailboat drill. But on the whole, it looked quite smooth! Keep working on those turns. You're going to have a nice little 100 IM real soon, SS :drink:

[SwimStud]

Keep working on those turns.

Understatement. I think my turn took 3 or 4 seconds. I know Mollie thought it was hilarious...but I told her it would be comedy.

Thanks for the positive comments too but the back is very funny and deserves top billing lol.

[swimmieAvsFan]

Understatement. I think my turn took 3 or 4 seconds. I know Mollie thought it was hilarious...but I told her it would be comedy.

Thanks for the positive comments too but the back is very funny and deserves top billing lol.

it was pretty funny, but mostly because it made me picture a bunch of the swimmers that i coach... who also have problems with the backstroke turn. and happen to be 8 and unders. :rofl:

look at it this way though, it was legal, so you're already a step ahead of most of my minis. :)

[SwimStud]

it was pretty funny, but mostly because it made me picture a bunch of the swimmers that i coach... who also have problems with the backstroke turn. and happen to be 8 and unders. :rofl:

look at it this way though, it was legal, so you're already a step ahead of most of my minis. :)

well on the tape I did roll the right way, at least to my thinking LOL.:thhbbb: Just really slowly and diagonally hahaha...do you want a copy ?

[swimmieAvsFan]

definitely! i might be able to catch something on the video that could help out. the turning the wrong way idea was just a hypothesis, based on what my minis tend to do wrong ;)

[The Fortress]

definitely! i might be able to catch something on the video that could help out. the turning the wrong way idea was just a hypothesis, based on what my minis tend to do wrong ;)

Now, if we took my start and turn and Rich's kick and morphed it into "Studstress," we'd have a rockin' 50 backstroke. Watch out Vicky Swanson!

Did Barb video Mollie and Julie's heat of backstroke?

[SwimStud]

Now, if we took my start and turn and Rich's kick and morphed it into "Studstress," we'd have a rockin' 50 backstroke. Watch out Vicky Swanson!

Did Barb video Mollie and Julie's heat of backstroke?

No. Sadly. I am bummed I can't get youtube to run for me. I tried all afternoon yesterday.

[swimshark]

Rich, please send them all. Thanks. I look forward to seeing the "showdown"

Alison

[Allen Stark]

Rich,over all your BR was looking good. The start on the 50 was a little flat and you didn't get all your body "through the keyhole".!00 start was much better. Watching your 50 I was unclear why you didn't get more from your kick. Watching the beginning of your 100 I thought"good kick",then you sped up the turn over and I think I see the problem.As you sped up instead of speeding everything up,you started pulling before your kick was finished.Thats OK sometimes for people with poor kicks.You have a good kick so use ALL of it.Starting your pull early seemed to slow you down.In a 50 there is no glide,but finish your kick before you start your pull.In the 100 "ride the glide"for just an instant. Thanks for the videos:applaud:

[SwimStud]

Rich,over all your BR was looking good. The start on the 50 was a little flat and you didn't get all your body "through the keyhole".!00 start was much better. Watching your 50 I was unclear why you didn't get more from your kick. Watching the beginning of your 100 I thought"good kick",then you sped up the turn over and I think I see the problem.As you sped up instead of speeding everything up,you started pulling before your kick was finished.Thats OK sometimes for people with poor kicks.You have a good kick so use ALL of it.Starting your pull early seemed to slow you down.In a 50 there is no glide,but finish your kick before you start your pull.In the 100 "ride the glide"for just an instant. Thanks for the videos:applaud:

Thanks Allen that's very helpful. I was looking at my stroke count going really high and thinking "how many strokes do I need?"

So for the 50: Kick (faster preferably)...feet touch, then the fast pull.

Starts..yeah...that falls into the techincal expertise area that I miss out on b/c of no coach. I'll have to look into my books, and re-examine the video.

[Muppet]

Did Barb video Mollie and Julie's heat of backstroke?

i did :thhbbb: got yours too, fort.
though i wouldn't count on having that uploaded any time soon. i probably won't have any free time at home until this weekend.

[Peter Cruise]

Rich- I finally got them to work- I'd say you've made quantum improvements over the first video I saw. Allen is right, you have a timing issue going on when you accelerate your stroke, you're rocking a bit on the water (this is on the 50). On the 100, the timing is nice, you're getting much more efficiency for your efforts, until you turn on the nitro & same issues surface. I'd recommend a lot of 'build' sets where you gradually transition from slow to fast, trying to maintain efficiency as much as possible as you increase stroke rate. When you feel that you are finishing each build well, then try doing a 25 right away, retaining that feeling. Should help.

By the way, I enjoyed the starter playing 'Simon says' with you on the block for the 100.

[ensignada]

Rich - Can I have them too? I watched all those races through a little 3 inch screen....

[LindsayNB]

Is there anyone that knows how to use youtube that could post the videos?

[SwimStud]

Is there anyone that knows how to use youtube that could post the videos?

It just won't load for me. I'm sure it's my McAfee suite thing. I can't find where or what to click off to get it to run. I tried everything.

Lindsay, I'll gladly email them. My backstroke turn is one for the ages LOL. I promise, no poems too! Haha.

[The Fortress]

Dang! That Donna lady made my day. She watched my back video. First, she agreed with me that my finish sucked big time. :laugh2: But then she said I was very smooth and TI and that there was no "whitewater from thrashing" like that whippersnapper next to me. :hug: I'm also very "low" in the water. No TI backstroke clinic for me! :groovy: I was apparently too lazy about my SDKs though ... Gotta go another 5 meters. LOL.

[julieopl]

Did Barb video Mollie and Julie's heat of backstroke?

That would be fun to watch since there was about a tenth separating me, Mollie, Jen & Barbara! Take out the people in the middle lanes who broke 30 and it was a pretty close race! Do I have to mention AGAIN that you should have been in our heat?!?!?!

Julie

[The Fortress]

That would be fun to watch since there was about a tenth separating me, Mollie, Jen & Barbara! Take out the people in the middle lanes who broke 30 and it was a pretty close race! Do I have to mention AGAIN that you should have been in our heat?!?!?!

Julie

NO.































I was too sick and old to email in a last minute time change. I was trying to rest and nap and take RX drugs. Do I have to mention AGAIN that you are 15 years younger than me? (And much cuter.) And that Mollie is even younger? Is Jen the one who was even younger at 24? LOL. Although let us remember that the 29.3 was done by another 45-49 year old who is #1 in the nation. :thhbbb: There's always next year. When I will be 46 and have a regrown shoulder. Muahaha. :D

[swim n again]

Stud, its been fun reading all about the show down. I'd love to watch them too. Looking forward to seeing this improve & even faster breastroke of yours. Maybe I can pick up a thing or two for this coming weekend's State meet of ours. I'm looking for some drastic drops in all 3 BR events. I don't remember seeing your BR times. I'd like to know them if your sharing 'em!

[SwimStud]

Stud, its been fun reading all about the show down. I'd love to watch them too. Looking forward to seeing this improve & even faster breastroke of yours. Maybe I can pick up a thing or two for this coming weekend's State meet of ours. I'm looking for some drastic drops in all 3 BR events. I don't remember seeing your BR times. I'd like to know them if your sharing 'em!

Of course Kim, for you, anything... I'll PM them so as not to bore everyone else again!

[Peter Cruise]

Never mind this stuff, where's the video from when the dinner got out of hand?

[some_girl]

Having finally watched them, all I can say is you are all too, too cute.

[islandsox]

Dang! That Donna lady made my day. She watched my back video. First, she agreed with me that my finish sucked big time. :laugh2: But then she said I was very smooth and TI and that there was no "whitewater from thrashing" like that whippersnapper next to me. :hug: I'm also very "low" in the water. No TI backstroke clinic for me! :groovy: I was apparently too lazy about my SDKs though ... Gotta go another 5 meters. LOL.

I want to pass along my observations after watching the Fort's 50 back; these are some things I mentioned to her. Pretty good start, but needs more SDK's and when she surfaced, it wasn't enough at an angle, her head popped almost straight up thus reducing forward propulsion a little. Having said that, her backstroke looks like it should, she is low in the water and she is kicking, most probably a 6-beat kick because a fast kick drives a fast arm turnover and she definitely had that. Had she been using what she thought was a 2-beat kick, her armstroke would have been much slower. Also, her kick was underwater where it should be with only the toes breaking the surface, thus the appearance of not much whitewater. The gal next to her had a lot of whitewater because her feet were breaking the surface instead of her toes.. And my final comment is she coasted into the finish and won't do that again, right Fort? Those flags can be our friends.

[imspoiled]

Flags? We don't need no stinking flags!

Glad no one videoed my BS. The only time I got the count right was in warm-up!

Oh, and Fort-- Vikkie Swanson does LOTS & LOTS of engine building. Swam with her once (and by that I mean in the same pool, a few lanes away. Same practice, slower interval.), and her engine is one of those fancy european sport models with the extra horse power.

[Caped Crusader]

I don't need no stinking flag either. But then I don't do backstroke.

Rich:

Great job. Can you email me the grudge race?

Fortress:

I don't want to hear how tall V. Swanson is. I'm sure she's an amazon.

[SwimStud]

I don't need no stinking flag either. But then I don't do backstroke.

Rich:

Great job. Can you email me the grudge race?

Fortress:

I don't want to hear how tall V. Swanson is. I'm sure she's an amazon.
on it's way

[The Fortress]

Never mind this stuff, where's the video from when the dinner got out of hand?

I'm guarding it with the pole.

6'1"

[islandsox]

I'm guarding it with the pole.

6'1"

:rofl: I used to swim with a gal who was 6'2 and I could still beat her, at least in distance. HOWEVER, being only 5'8, I had to swim like a bat out of H* because on every turn, she would make up lots of ground. I was sure busy inbetween the flags (whew).

[Muppet]

I don't want to hear how tall V. Swanson is. I'm sure she's an amazon.

Actually, she claims she's only 6'0". Still, not shabby. She and 1776 buddy Laurie Hug both hail from the Germantown Academy neck of the woods, though I don't know Vikye's relation to GA, if any. GA is famous for engine building (hence all the awesome distance kids, and Laurie Hug, that come out of there).

Vikye and Laurie are both really nice, as I have had the pleasure of hanging out with them on several occasions (including Friday dinner at Colonies Zones). They were both pretty bummed in '05 when I showed up to swim at Nationals with a buzz after having a full "oh, can i touch your hair" fro the night before.

[newmastersswimmer]

I want to pass along my observations after watching the Fort's 50 back; these are some things I mentioned to her. Pretty good start, but needs more SDK's and when she surfaced, it wasn't enough at an angle, her head popped almost straight up thus reducing forward propulsion a little. Having said that, her backstroke looks like it should, she is low in the water and she is kicking, most probably a 6-beat kick because a fast kick drives a fast arm turnover and she definitely had that. Had she been using what she thought was a 2-beat kick, her armstroke would have been much slower. Also, her kick was underwater where it should be with only the toes breaking the surface, thus the appearance of not much whitewater. The gal next to her had a lot of whitewater because her feet were breaking the surface instead of her toes.. And my final comment is she coasted into the finish and won't do that again, right Fort? Those flags can be our friends.


Speaking of whitewater from the backstroke kick....Did you catch Rich's 50 back video LOL! (Sorry Rich....Just j/k now....you even said backstroke is not your thing anyway LOL!).

Here is my video analysis from all the videos I saw (copied from Rich's wall on FB....so written to Rich originally):

So I just saw all of the videos you both sent me (You and Kyra that is) ...which was all of the videos you mentioned at the USMS site. I really enjoyed watching them all! Les did glide into her 50 back finish just like she said...pretty noticable in fact..If she had taken an extra stroke she probably would have been around 29 mid or so. Muppet's 200 fly brought back some painful memories LOL!! I noticed he wasn't gliding as far underwater off of his last couple of turns LOL!...it was a good swim though....the 200 fly is going to hurt no matter what I suppose (unless you are Jeff Rodin perhaps....but for the rest of us mortals its going to hurt bigtime...especially the last 50). I thought both of the breaststroke races (50 and 100) you swam looked pretty good Rich (I guess the 200 wasn't taped?)....You were behind Muppet after the start...then passed him on the first 25...but he glided farther than you off the turn and came back up ahead of you...but you passed him "again" to win....Anyway....If you went further off of the start and turn you could be 33 mid or so right now IMO...still looked good though so not trying to be overly critical...nice turnover on the 50 for sure! ....as far as your 50 back goes....well I think you summed it up LOL! Don't feel bad though b/c its not your stroke I guess LOL!...The start was a bit strange LOL!....and I think the splash from your backstroke kick may have reached spectators in the upper decks too LOL! ....the 50 free looked pretty good for the most part....You just need more practice with freestyle I think....That one guy who won your heat with a 24 low had you by over a bosy length off of the start and probably got you by another body lenght of the turn (at least I bet)...whcih is actually GOOD news...b/c just start and turn improvements probably takes you down in the 27 something range right now....other minor stroke related improvements and you have a pretty decent 50 free there IMO!


Newmastersswimmer

[Muppet]

Bork,

That 2fly was indeed painful. Beethoven started pounding the ivories at the 75, and then brought on additional friends with each stroke. :frustrated: Roddin was one of the fast guys in that same heat - went a :00 I believe.

As for the 50 Breast, bear in mind I've got a few inches on Rich, and a pretty powerful dolphin kick. Despite exhaustion, you saw how that one dolphin kick worked for me in the 2fly. That combined with a tall/lengthy streamline, I am not surprised I was able to beat Rich off the walls. It is that height, however, that Rich was able to expliot the rest of the race, as it took me too long to finish my stroke cycles. :dedhorse:
I think we both had pretty sluggish starts too if you look at that (i almost fell off the block when i got on, if you caught that). :drink:

[SwimStud]

Bork,

That 2fly was indeed painful. Beethoven started pounding the ivories at the 75, and then brought on additional friends with each stroke. :frustrated: Roddin was one of the fast guys in that same heat - went a :00 I believe.

As for the 50 Breast, bear in mind I've got a few inches on Rich, and a pretty powerful dolphin kick. Despite exhaustion, you saw how that one dolphin kick worked for me in the 2fly. That combined with a tall/lengthy streamline, I am not surprised I was able to beat Rich off the walls. It is that height, however, that Rich was able to expliot the rest of the race, as it took me too long to finish my stroke cycles. :dedhorse:
I think we both had pretty sluggish starts too if you look at that (i almost fell off the block when i got on, if you caught that). :drink:


Yeah Jeff I'm going to get leg extensions in for the rematch at the LCM 50...if it fits your meet plans. I figured out how to stop slapping my feet on my dive so that may assist my start at least.

[The Fortress]

Yeah Jeff I'm going to get leg extensions in for the rematch at the LCM 50...if it fits your meet plans. I figured out how to stop slapping my feet on my dive so that may assist my start at least.

Well, I want leg extensions too then. Although aren't we supposed to "swim tall?" :rofl:

Jeff don't feel bad that V. Swanson is taller than you and faster than you. You'll catch up one day.

[SwimStud]

Well, I want leg extensions too then. Although aren't we supposed to "swim tall?" :rofl:

Jeff don't feel bad that V. Swanson is taller than you and faster than you. You'll catch up one day.

If I could take a little of my width and add it to height I'd be happy. Muppet is about 5' 10" and sleek he's in that perfect range for swimmers. I'm 5' 8" and streamlined...like a tugboat...

[Allen Stark]

I thought you looked robust to Muppet's gracile.

[SwimStud]

I thought you looked robust to Muppet's gracile.

Thanks Allen. I look forward to comparing calves and delts with you at some time in the future...if not before, then at nats next year... ;)

[Muppet]

If I could take a little of my width and add it to height I'd be happy. Muppet is about 5' 10" and sleek he's in that perfect range for swimmers. I'm 5' 8" and streamlined...like a tugboat...

Whoa, you're shaving off too much to compensate for the Mupjay frohawk. I'm a smidge under 6'0". :argue: about 6'4" fro standing straight up.

[SwimStud]

Whoa, you're shaving off too much to compensate for the Mupjay frohawk. I'm a smidge under 6'0". :argue: about 6'4" fro standing straight up.

Mupjaya! Well together we average 5'10" so that negates your height advantage LOL

[newmastersswimmer]

Yaeh up until the last 50 or so you were getting great underwater distance off of your turns and your stroke looked pretty smooth and relaxed....you still kept it together pretty well on the last 50....but I could tell you were feeling the pain LOL! One of your final turns was a quick pop up....I guess thats when I knew you were probably hurting and going into some pretty serious O2 debt.....but you kept it all together pretty well none-the-less....I've been in that same painful situation so many times....How do you like that feeling you get right as your getting ready to take the blocks ...knowing whats now in front of you....I always think to myself at that point "why the heck did I sign up for this race again??" then the beep goes off and your on your own at that point.....You went out real smooth and strong though....nice turns ...nice streamlining and distance off the walls....overall I thought it looked real good.


Bork

Bork,

That 2fly was indeed painful. Beethoven started pounding the ivories at the 75, and then brought on additional friends with each stroke. :frustrated: Roddin was one of the fast guys in that same heat - went a :00 I believe.

As for the 50 Breast, bear in mind I've got a few inches on Rich, and a pretty powerful dolphin kick. Despite exhaustion, you saw how that one dolphin kick worked for me in the 2fly. That combined with a tall/lengthy streamline, I am not surprised I was able to beat Rich off the walls. It is that height, however, that Rich was able to expliot the rest of the race, as it took me too long to finish my stroke cycles. :dedhorse:
I think we both had pretty sluggish starts too if you look at that (i almost fell off the block when i got on, if you caught that). :drink:

[Muppet]

Yaeh up until the last 50 or so you were getting great underwater distance off of your turns and your stroke looked pretty smooth and relaxed....you still kept it together pretty well on the last 50....but I could tell you were feeling the pain LOL! One of your final turns was a quick pop up....I guess thats when I knew you were probably hurting and going into some pretty serious O2 debt.....but you kept it all together pretty well none-the-less....I've been in that same painful situation so many times....How do you like that feeling you get right as your getting ready to take the blocks ...knowing whats now in front of you....I always think to myself at that point "why the heck did I sign up for this race again??" then the beep goes off and your on your own at that point.....You went out real smooth and strong though....nice turns ...nice streamlining and distance off the walls....overall I thought it looked real good.

Bork, the painful turns were at the 125 (thats the one I pull myself so high a teammate thought I was getting ready to climb out of the pool) and the 175. I have been told on my previous four 200 fly outings that from up top, it looks effortless and smooth the whole way through - I guess its something about my stroke. I actually have no idea what I was thinking when I climbed up on the blocks and when I first dove in. Honestly, adrenaline took over, as if it didn't, I sure wouldn't have went out as fast! I was very nervous and excited about doing this, especially as this was Dave Barra's choice of event.

[knelson]

but you kept it all together pretty well none-the-less

I agree. It looked good. A lot better than a quick glance at the splits would suggest! Yeah, I could tell Muppet was getting tired, but he kept his stroke together pretty well. I think he really has a good stroke for distance fly. All he needs to do is start doing more distance fly sets during practice! :)

[islandsox]

I just got to watch Swimstud's videos from Zones. First, I want to say this: for a person who has only been swimming for several months, I don't think I could perform that well. Sure, starts, turns, and stroke need more work, but everyone's does. And it is apparant that our friend here is taking people's advice and working on everything.

Having said that, I think Rich's backstroke start had more comedy than the turn. The turn is just slow right now because you haven't done a ka-zillion of them yet and truly figured out the stroke count from the flags to the wall. And you probably already know that when the buzzer goes off, you should let go of the backstroke bar :rofl:. And don't just push off the wall, but thrust yourself backward and upward. This, too, will come. When your back start becomes more correct, you will then have a problem all of us backstrokers do: preventing our feet/legs from slipping down the wall.:rofl:

On your backstroke technique, the thing that struck me the most was your knees are breaking the surface of the water. They need to be kept underwater at all times. By breaking the surface, it causes a "bicycling" effect which you don't want and it prevents the kick from coming from the hips. I was looking for something in particular in your backstroke armstroke; I think I saw (sometimes only) the back of your hand entering the water instead of the pinkie-finger entering first. Not sure about this, but I thought I saw that. And if the back of the hand enters first, your catch will be very delayed, most probably when your arm gets parallel to the shoulder instead of in the beginning of the hand/arm entering sooner via pinkie-finger.

I'd say you are a good candidate for the back; you need a bit more technical help and backstroke laps. Improving back will only make your 100IM faster.

My last comment: I was more wowed than I thought I would be. Great job!!

donna