Sleepless in Lawrenceville

[swimr4life]

Do any of you have trouble with insomnia? I'm really having a problem with it on a regular basis. From talking with people my age (45) a lot of people seem to have the same problem. Any suggestions on how to overcome insomnia without drugs? :frustrated:
Sincerely,
Draculina

[SwimStud]

Any suggestions on how to overcome insomnia without drugs? :frustrated:
Sincerely,
Draculia

Yes...;) hehe

[swimr4life]

Rich, :thhbbb: you have a one track mind. :lolup:

BUT...all kidding aside......lack of sleep is really starting to effect me. I need help/advice.

[Seagurl51]

Make sure you have good sleep hygenie. Go to bed everyday (even weekends) at the same time, and no matter what get up at the same time (this one is hardest). Make sure you have a routine that you follow before you actually go to bed....ie., brush teeth, let out dog, wash face, etc... Don't go to bed until you're truly tired...so if that's 1 am...so be it, but remember you have to get up at the same time everyday. If you lay in bed for more than fifteen-20 minutes without falling asleep get up and do something, but nothing active. Watch a soothing movie or TV show, or read....dont' work on anything (unless you can pinpoint that as your cause of stress) or do anything active. Try not to eat or drink anything within an hour of wanting to go to sleep. Last..DON"T THINK ABOUT SLEEP. If you lay there thinking about how much you want to sleep it makes it that much harder.

You may want to look for causes too. Could it be environmental? Are you depressed? Eliminating whatever is making you anxious or new could help get you back into a new cycle.

:smooch:

p.s. I found not having a clock helped me. I would just lay there and look at the clock and think..I have so many hours til I have to get up..that's 6 hours...etc. But if you just turn your alarm clock around so you can't see it, that seemed to help.

[The Fortress]

Do any of you have trouble with insomnia? I'm really having a problem with it on a regular basis. From talking with people my age (45) a lot of people seem to have the same problem. Any suggestions on how to overcome insomnia without drugs? :frustrated:
Sincerely,
Draculina

Dearest Draculina:

I truly believe that some insomnia is age or hormonally related. My obgyn told me last checkup that in the lovely period of life from 40-50, your body going to have difficulty sleeping. He used the word perimenopause. It's almost too horrifying to repeat. But he said it could last awhile. He gave me no good advice except to enjoy reading late at night.

I have suffered intermittently from this dread Draculina thing since the birth of my last daughter. (I caught the bug while pregnant. OMG, that was awful. I'd be up until 5:00 am, and then my other two would wake up at 7:00 ....)

Unfortunately, I have found that once you get in a bad cycle, it is difficult to break out of the cycle. For example, I was all hyped up and caffeinated for zones and couldn't sleep much. Now, I'm having trouble dozing off at a decent hour. You know, like before 1:00. LOL.

If you don't want to take drugs, and I don't blame you, there are two things to do. You're probably doing the first, which is good sleep hygiene: (1) sleep in a cold and dark place appropriate for vampires (I had wooden shutters put on my windows and skylights to block out all conceivable light. It really helped): (2) do not read in bed (read in a chair next to the bed if possible); (3) do not stay on the computer at least 30 minutes before attempting sleep; (4) try a hot bath; (5) sleep alone for awhile (I know this could aggro the husband, but you gotta sleep. Plus, I find it ungodly irritating to have someone snoozin' away while I'm worried I may never snooze); (6) wake up and go to sleep at the same time every day; (7) try not to imbibe too much wine before bed, although it is a good muscle relaxer, so I often have some anyway ;); (8) NEVER EVER lay in bed hoping to fall asleep. If you're there more than 15 minutes, get out before you start freaking out and start the sleepy process over. (This is called the Bootzin Technique or stimulus control therapy.)

Second, you can try behavioral therapy to change your sleeping patterns. This is very painful. I have only succeeded with this method once, about 3 years ago. You basically have to stay up as late as possible multiple nights in a row, kill your body into exhaustion so that it has no choice but to fall asleep. So, under this theory, you pick the minimal amount of sleep you need to function the next day, say 4 hours. Go to sleep at 2:00 am and wake up at 6:00 am. Or go to sleep at 3:00 and wake up at 7:00 (that's what I did). Do this for a few days. Move your bedtime up 15 minutes per day after a few days of total deprivation. Eventually, over time, you trick your body into going to sleep at the correct time. This is a very hard cure. Almost impossible. But it does work.

Read two books: Desperately Seeking Snoozin' and the Mayo Clinic Guide to Insomnia. The first book will make you feel better and you will realize you are not alone. Both books describe the behavioral therapy quite well.

Have you ever tried a sleep med? If not, you might. The very first time I had insomnia, I took ambien for 3 nights in a row and stopped. Then, magically, my body just fell asleep. I was cured for awhile, but then I got older and it recurred. Definitely not a permanent cure, but if you're desperate.

I'm so sorry you're being a real Draculina. All I can say is that I know your pain. If a person hasn't has insomnia before, they can't understand how awful it is. From my questioning of many people, it is unfortunately really common among women our age. Hormones is a big cause. And also just the stress of being a busy mom, working, etc. Go read those books. My husband thought I was crazy to read them. He thought it would make me dwell on sleep more. But they actually made me feel better.

And remember, we are used to swimming tired. And we can still swim fast without sleep. Of course, we might be unstoppable if we actually slept more. ;)

Here is a prior thread discussing insomnia too. http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=7624&highlight=insomnia

Hang in there, Twin FAF Draculina

[SwimStud]

Rich, :thhbbb: you have a one track mind. :lolup:



I was going to suggest a hot tub...why, what did you think I meant?

Um I've been told avoid coffee/tea...which I'm sure you do.
Try giving yourself a foot massage focus on the toes and falls of your feet and the top of your feet just below the toes. this is all connected to your head and shoulders etc. It should help ease stresses.

Other than that try not to be thinking about too much stuff. There are many resources on the web for this. I know they all say it's a bad idea to lie awake in bed. Better to get up and do something read, or listen to soft music to help you relax. I feel for you.
Are you perhaps over doing the comeback a little bit? Have you given yourself a good chance to get over your recent illnesses and worries for you daughter. That can all add up Beth.
I definitely reccomend some "Beth time" massages etc.

[runner girl]

I haven't ever had sleep problems, but one of the gals at work was talking about the potato before bedtime approach from Potatoes not Prozac. It's supposed to help with sleep among other things. Here's the online version that explains it better than I can. http://www.radiantrecovery.com/4r.htm I've also heard that calcium is supposed to help with sleep. Maybe that was why they used to suggest drinking warm milk.

[The Fortress]

"I've also heard that calcium is supposed to help with sleep. Maybe that was why they used to suggest drinking warm milk."

I have heard this before and I believe Beth has tried it before. I think it is a myth, a total myth, just like melatonin or whatever. If you are in dire straights, this stuff won't help. Insomnia resists anything mild. :2cents: Now, I do believe that higher serotonin levels would help you sleep, so maybe potatos help that way. But increased serotonin probably helps everything.

[Leonard Jansen]

In the RARE instance that I can't sleep, I take melatonin. You can get it amost anyplace that sells "dietary supplements". It usually comes in 3 mg tablets, but I only need 1/2 of a tablet to do the job. Take it about 1 hour before you want to sleep. It can have a bit of a "hangover" effect, so don't drive or skydive in the AM unless you are sure you are wide awake. As an added bonus, it seems to make the day after a bit calmer.

-LBJ

[aquageek]

I know you have mentioned wanting to avoid drugs and I certainly understand that. However, I have a few friends in this age group (me almost included) who have had similar problems. Some have taken this Ambien/Lunesta stuff periodically and have given it rave reviews. If you are suffering right now it might be worth trying or considering while you work on many of the good ideas mentioned above.

[The Fortress]

In the RARE instance that I can't sleep, I take melatonin. You can get it amost anyplace that sells "dietary supplements". It usually comes in 3 mg tablets, but I only need 1/2 of a tablet to do the job. Take it about 1 hour before you want to sleep. It can have a bit of a "hangover" effect, so don't drive or skydive in the AM unless you are sure you are wide awake. As an added bonus, it seems to make the day after a bit calmer.

-LBJ

Bah! That's because you "rarely" have sleep problems. This stuff might help at the margins.

Beth:

The book written by the former director of the Mayo Clinic Insomnia Program and Sleep Disorder Clinic is titled "No More Sleepless Nights."

Here are the herbal meds it lists as potentially being useful, particularly because our bodies produce less of them as we age:

B vitamins (although B12 can get you all hopped up and energized)
Calcium (but is really hard to properly absorb, as you probably know)
Zinc
Copper and Iron
Tryptophan (amino acid)
Melatonin (sex drive downer)

BUT there are no definitive studies on most of this stuff or those that exist are not well documented. They have side effects and can interact with other meds. So be careful with this stuff. If I have a bad case of insomnia, none of this stuff works for me. But everyone is different and there are many different types of insomnia (hormonal, physiological, psychological) and different insomniac-draculinas/draculas. Behavioral therapy is the recommended treatment. Some people also have success with deep relaxation and breathing technique. I am too impatient for this and not meditative enough.

Most importantly, we are supposed to be taking a lot of vacations. I think the lack of non-swim-related vacations are depriving me of sleep.

Ack. We need Gull or fanstone. I'm just the daughter of a doctor, not a doctor myself.

[Leonard Jansen]

Bah! That's because you "rarely" have sleep problems. This stuff might help at the margins.

True, but a clear conscience will do that...

As to melatonin inhibiting libido, I just mentioned this to Her Ukrainian Highness and her comment was "I wish."

Seriously though, you must have quite a case of sleeplessness, because melatonin knocks me on my backside.

We'll send over the UT men's swim team to give you a massage and feed you peeled grapes and see if that relaxes you enough to sleep.

-LBJ

[aquageek]

True, but a clear conscience will do that...

I don't understand what you mean by this, please explain.

[The Fortress]

True, but a clear conscience will do that...

As -LBJ

Yes, as someone insisted on the horror flick thread, I am an EVIL EVIL sprinter. But I'm down with that, as Kyra would say. So my conscience is currently clear. Haven't swindled anyone lately practicing law because I've been really busy taking hits off the bronchodialator and racing -- not good for sleep. Do not take decongestants and inhaler hits at nighttime, folks.

My sleeplessness comes and goes (and I'm a really bad traveler). Sometimes hormones. Sometimes pure stress. But if it takes hold, then the psychological monster takes over. And then I do a lot of reading. Once, I read an 800 page book on the French Revolution in two nights. :groovy: (Charles Dickens was an insomniac.) Oh, insomnia is fun. But I managed to fall off at 12:30-1:00 am last night without any melatonin or peeled grapes or massages or anything else.

[scyfreestyler]

Why without drugs? The lack of sleep is going to do you more harm than one of the new offerings in sleep aid drugs.

[The Fortress]

Why without drugs? The lack of sleep is going to do you more harm than one of the new offerings in sleep aid drugs.

Yep! The only problem with ambien and lunesta is habituation/adiction if you are taking it non-stop over a long period of time. Plus, you might get an upset tummy. But if you only take it very occasionally or to get over a particularly bad spell, it is usually OK. Just be careful. Plus, if you use it too much and then stop, you can get rebound insomnia, another big ugly. These drugs are only meant for short term use. They stop working anyway after awhile and won't combat a night of "panic" in any event.

Personally, I don't have any of the side effects if I take one. No groggy feeling the next day. (I took one the night before my 50 free at zones. If it's good enough for Michael Phelps ...) And I have never woken up in the middle of the night to cook or drive around town. I can't believe how the comedians have gone to town on these two rare side effects ...

[CreamPuff]

Hi Beth,

Just as an FYI, one of my husband's close friends got/ is seriously addicted to Ambien. I don't know specifics other than he had trouble going to sleep and got hooked on these medications.

I'm sure these sleep aides help many people successfully, but I feel you need to know this as he's continuing to struggle (unsuccessfully) to get off these things.

[aquageek]

I don't believe any of us are suggesting taking Ambien to the point of addiction, but as a possible short term sleep aide, much as Fort suggests. And, as one option among many out there to consider, including the hocus pocus stuff I'm prone to dabble in.

[swim4me]

I can also vouch for melatonin. Two years ago I took a business trip to India. One of the people I work with used to be in the Air Force and they did studies on jet lag and melatonin. He gave me a schedule of taking melatonin to begin adjusting my sleep cycle a day or two before the trip and then another for the trip home. It worked in both directions. I never felt jet lagged on the trip over and though I was tired after I got home, I think it was from traveling (including layovers) for 30 hours. I would get extremely sleepy one hour after taking 3 mgs of melatonin and it was bad because I could NOT sleep for the adjustment to work successfully. Have not tried it for insomnia, though, because thankfully I don't have it.

[Slowswim]

Beth:

I rarely have sleeping issues and I have very good reasons to never sleep. When my mind over comes my ability to sleep, I go sailing.

I love sailing but sailing is any fond memory to re-run: fun, racing, relaxing, a party with my college brother, a long talk/walk with the love of my life...

It doesn't matter. On other occasions, I remember husband/wife active times...

again doesn't matter. Bottom line: let go... to somewhere you really want to be and you will fade away.

Drugs are never the answer! Like I said (you'll just have to believe me) I have reasons to never sleep; so if, I can anyone can.

[islandsox]

Do any of you have trouble with insomnia? I'm really having a problem with it on a regular basis. From talking with people my age (45) a lot of people seem to have the same problem. Any suggestions on how to overcome insomnia without drugs? :frustrated:
Sincerely,
Draculina

Beth, I am a hardcore member of the Insomina Club; I think I started it all by myself a long time ago. I can go to sleep but I can't stay asleep. Now sometimes we have power outages here (more often than I want), so when that happens our UPS beeps to save our computer, the heat starts climbing, and I have to get out of bed and rearrange my nightstand to hold two battery fans. Now, given that this does awaken me and I have to practically rearrange the bedroom, no wonder I can't go back to sleep.

Seriously, I have been having this problem for years even before we moved to this island. I am also light-sensitive. Intense exercise doesn't seem to be enough for me, so I do take Tylenol PM regularly. I'd rather sleep than not sleep. I find that when I don't get to sleep enough, I have a tendency to also overeat the next day.

Maybe we need a Support Group?

[The Fortress]

Drugs are never the answer!

Not true! Sorry Bill. Sometimes drugs are needed for various reasons. Here I am defending the medical profession again ... Thank god I am not currently defending the legal profession. Everyone in my family but me is in the medical profession, including psychiatry. I've had an earful my whole life.

Drugs can be used to effectively treat many diseases. For instance, my antiobiotics and other meds just cured my bacterial sinus infection and asthmatic bronchitis. OK, that's obvious. Meds work if properly prescribed and used. End of report.

Now, sleep aids for insomnia are not a "never" use. You must just be extremely careful. I know people that have become addicted to sleep meds too. I know people that use them infrequently and responsibly and successfully. If you have addictive tendencies or a past history, do not use them, to be sure. But they do have a limited purpose. Especially if they might save your sanity in the short term or during a crisis. I have stated my views that they are an occasional short term solution, not a "cure" to hard core insomnia. There are alternative treatments and I have detailed them.

Many people have reasons to be up at night. It could be anything -- family troubles, illness, pain, depression, traumatic stress syndrome, horrific memories, marital difficulties, hormones, or something as simple as worrying about your children or the mortgage or a job issue. Insomnia can be "inspired" by virtually anything. Different treatments work for different people. For some people, just "going away in their mind" will not work, although it is a viable strategy. You have to take on the individual here. Telling someone they are "weak" if they use drugs is no good. Telling someone they are "weak" if they have insomnia is no good. (I'm not saying you did that, I'm just pointing out that it is highly counterproductive, as it is proven that many insomnia sufferers have low self esteem, probably because they are too snackered to think straight.)

So let's fit the specific remedy to the individual person or problem and not over-generalize here. To each his own. Just like swimming, different strokes for different folks.

[aquaFeisty]

Hi Beth - I hope you managed to get some sleep last night. There's been lots of good advice here. The only things I can add are:
1. Don't watch TV in bed (Leslie already mentioned don't read in bed). When you get in bed, lights out and go to sleep.
2. Try keeping a few nights of a sleep diary when you can't sleep. You are looking to total up how many actual hours you are getting.

With me, I find that I start freaking out and thinking, "Oh my God! I'm going to DIE from lack of sleep." Duh, Carrie, obviously this made it harder to fall asleep. When I wrote down how much sleep I was getting and I realized I was actually getting 4-5 hours, some of the panic went away and I realized that I wasn't going to actually die (just be a bit groggy/cranky/unpleasant the next day).

Like Kyra said, I find it helpful to avoid looking at the clock in general (when I'm not trying to calculate my total sleep hours). Anything that breaks up the panic/freak-out thoughts really helps me.

I'll send lots of good thoughts your way!! Take care!

[aquageek]

Drugs are never the answer! Like I said (you'll just have to believe me) I have reasons to never sleep; so if, I can anyone can.

I don't know how you can say this without being a doctor or knowing anything about Beth's issues.

The last person who I heard say something like this was jumping on Oprah's couch and has been roundly discredited.

[bud]

Do any of you have trouble with insomnia? .... Any suggestions on how to overcome insomnia without drugs?
I like to drink relaxing herb teas, and will do so on a regular basis when I have extended periods (days/weeks) having trouble going to sleep.

I will frequently listen to music too. Sometimes with lyrics, sometimes not, it just depends on my mood at the time. I believe for me this ties in with the comment made about “go someplace in your mind that you want to be” (good point). Music sometimes helps me shift my mental focus and rest.

If I avoid the TV and computer at least 2 hours before bedtime I find it is much easier to go to sleep. Reading is much better. The routine thingy is good too. I love my pre and post bedtime rituals.

Avoid stimulating foods. The Yogic term for this is “rajistic food” if you care to research that angle.

Sometimes it is disturbing, irregular noises that don’t allow me to relax enough to sleep. I frequently run an inexpensive 20” box fan all night to get the pleasant drone/hum to distract me so I can sleep. (You can also buy “white noise” generators and CD’s.) This typically can take some getting used to, but once hooked it can also be somewhat addictive.

I’ve no doubt that it is stress that most often keeps me up. So if your problem is chemical, etc. then maybe these things won’t help. I had a period of over a year (around 1994) where chronic pain kept me up, which was really destructive to me at the time, but eventually I got over it.

“It all works out in the end. If it hasn’t worked out, then it isn’t the end.”

[Slowswim]

[quote=The Fortress;88114]Not true! Sorry Bill. Sometimes drugs are needed for various reasons. Here I am defending the medical profession again ... Thank god I am not currently defending the legal profession. Everyone in my family but me is in the medical profession, including psychiatry. I've had an earful my whole life.

Fort: I politely disagree. I have years of experience as a Licensed Nursing Home Administrator. I have seen the damage done by too quickly running for drugs. This include all levels of medical (nursing) and psychiatric care.

Granted there have been advances but I have yet to see a sleep aid that didn't have side-effects that were worse.

Our usual routine on receive a sub-acute care patient was to re-baseline the drugs. Most patients came with as low as 4 Rx to a high of 15-20. Each was to treat the side-effect of another.

Geek: If you believe a doctors has a clue about Rx, then you do nit understand how the system works. The fail-safe professional is the Pharmacist and they are woefully under-paid for the life/death judgements they make.

OK "never" was too strong a word but the intent to deviate from our cultures obsession with drugs and the quick fix. For that I apologize. There are some great non-drug suggestions here.

[bud]

Do any of you have trouble with insomnia? .... Any suggestions on how to overcome insomnia. without drugs? :frustrated:
Then again too, you could always follow the advice of Natty Dread (of the infamous radio show “Dear Natty”), which was always:
(as in your case) “Dear Frustrated... Be Mellow! Roll up a big spliff! Put on a Bob Marley album*. PRAISE JAH!”

(*The Reggae artist changed with each nugget of advice given, but otherwise the advice for every problem was always the same.) :-D

(And HEY! Wait a minute! It is just another herb! NOT a "drug"! And it DID help me fix MY problem back in 1994. But now I just use diet and exercise, and a bit of meditation.)

Have Fun! Praise Jah!

[Karen Duggan]

Hi Beth,
You have had a ton on your plate lately, and I'm no doctor, but from what you've said, I bet you're depressed. Sleeplessness is a symptom of depression. And as I'm sure you know, they feed off of each other.
With all of the "crap" I went through the last 7 years (I don't know if you remember), I was officially diagnosed as depressed. I took Fluoxetine (generic Prozac) for about a year. It REALLY helped, and I slept. I just recently quit taking it, and I've had a couple of hard nights trying to go to sleep... that being said, I've been so sore from swimming that I discovered something new. If I take 4 Advil at bedtime, I'm out in about 15 min. The pain finally subsides enough to let me sleep. Different issue than depression, I realize, but it helps me sleep :)
I know you don't want drugs, I didn't either, but the Fluoxetine made a huge improvement in my quality of life. I finally was rested enough to find my marbles again, and now I feel "normal" :thhbbb: whatever THAT is :) I'm also not so snappy with family either.

BTW, I don't take Advil regularly (I'm afraid of the long term side effects), but once in awhile it really helps.

I hope you feel better. At the very least, talk to your doctor about your very real symptoms. It could be "old lady" stuff, depression, or ??? One way to find out.

:smooch: :smooch: (Take two of these and call me in 'da mornin')

[Peter Cruise]

Uhm, Karen? I remember well that you are a toughie like Fortress (most of the women posters are; just us males that are softies) but- this pain from swimming: is this something that arises from a particular workout? Or set? Or is it just good old residual pain from ignoring an injury until it stops you in your tracks? If I wanted to stir up a hornet's nest, I'd ask you if you think the pain comes from poor technique or overtraining, but I don't, so I won't.

[SwimStud]

If I wanted to stir up a hornet's nest, I'd ask you if you think the pain comes from poor technique or overtraining, but I don't, so I won't.

Is is a shoulder pain??

[The Fortress]

[quote=The Fortress;88114]

Fort: I politely disagree. I have years of experience as a Licensed Nursing Home Administrator. I have seen the damage done by too quickly running for drugs. This include all levels of medical (nursing) and psychiatric care.

Granted there have been advances but I have yet to see a sleep aid that didn't have side-effects that were worse.

Our usual routine on receive a sub-acute care patient was to re-baseline the drugs. Most patients came with as low as 4 Rx to a high of 15-20. Each was to treat the side-effect of another.


Bill:

I can see you have a lot of experience and that gives you a unique perspective.

BUT I don't take 4-20 Rx drugs simultaneously to counteract each other. :rofl: I would bet that most other posters are reasonably careful about their health too. (Could be wrong of course.) The only medication I am currently on is allergy meds because the spring does not agree with me and I like to breathe. I can't even take NSAIDs because I'm doing prolo. (Although I do agree with Karen that they make me a bit sleepy sometimes!) I've given up my steroids, cocaine, creatine, muscle relaxants, ritalin, adrenaline, valium, coritsone shots, etc. :rofl: I'm just left with caffeine and wine. Ah, it's a dull life.

ALSO BUT I didn't say to "quickly run" to a sleep aid. Not a good idea. You should definitely "walk." Plus, I gave a lot of other suggestions and said that, when I had a whacking bad spell of this stuff, I used behavioral therapy to rejigger my body.

But let me be clear that if you have a bad case of hormones/chemical stuff run amok (from various causes, including possibly certain nighttime activities), ain't no herbals teas or sailboating gonna get you to sleep.

[SwimStud]

But let me be clear that if you have a bad case of hormones/chemical stuff run amok (from various causes, including possibly certain nighttime activities), ain't no herbals teas or sailboating gonna get you to sleep.

Yup, that sleep walking will get you every time!

[CreamPuff]

Hey Beth,

Looks like you're getting TONS of advice.

One thing that came to mind. Have you been getting as much exercise as in the past? I remember that you've not been able to swim nearly as much as you were last year or so b/c of your shoulder injuries and such. I saw that when I missed just one or two swim practices, I literally could not sleep that night - just tossed and turned for hours. Has your physical activity been up to what you've been used to?

Ugh. After reading some of these posts - my take home message for myself is Just Say No. 'Course, who am I to talk. Got my surgery coming up and they will be pumping me full of drugs. Ick.

[Karen Duggan]

Peter,
I don't mind :)
No, I'm just sore from lifting and swimming. In particular, my butt REALLY hurts from lifting! TMI, I know :p
As far as I know, my strokes are efficient and I'm not doing them incorrectly. Luckily, I've never had shoulder problems... Last October I did have bicep tendonitis and took off 4 months- never did that either, but it's all better now :)
Thanks for asking :)

[The Fortress]

After reading some of these posts - my take home message for myself is Just Say No. 'Course, who am I to talk. Got my surgery coming up and they will be pumping me full of drugs. Ick.

Well, just enjoy that surgery high while you can ;) and kick butt at your next meet, oh fast one. :bow:

I hope for your sake your hormones are always perfectly serene. :thhbbb: :thhbbb: Maybe you won't age because swimming is the fountain of youth?

Oh Bill, I forgot, there may be some Dr quacks out there, but they are not at the Mayo Clinic or in my family. So I'll give you a :thhbbb: too.

[USMSarah]

Hi there.

I'm in my late 20's and have had problems in this area for years. I have not read over the previous comments, so I apologize if my reply is repetitive.

I have found absolutely no non-drug way of helping me get to sleep (well, other than reading a really boring book in bed).

I have used Benadryl and Melatonin (not together) - and sometimes I don't even fall asleep after I've taken those!

I have not used any other drugs to fall asleep.

[The Fortress]

Hi there.

I'm in my late 20's and have had problems in this area for years. I have not read over the previous comments, so I apologize if my reply is repetitive.

I have found absolutely no non-drug way of helping me get to sleep (well, other than reading a really boring book in bed).

I have used Benadryl and Melatonin (not together) - and sometimes I don't even fall asleep after I've taken those!

I have not used any other drugs to fall asleep.

Oh, boo. You should probably read the comments to get the non-drug advice/ideas! I hope something works. No fun being tired.

Personally, I don't like OTC stuff and I don't think it works very well. Maybe for a minor case. Tylenol PM and Benadryl also have a really draggy effect on me, much worse than ambien. I only take benadryl in an emergency when I have a allergy-induced hive attack. Otherwise, yucky. But that's just me.

[jaegermeister]

If you believe a doctors has a clue about Rx, then you do nit understand how the system works.


I'm afraid that you're generalizations are going to get you in trouble again. Maybe the physicians that you work with overprescribe medications. Maybe they are getting paid by drug companies to listen to marketing that is billed as science. And maybe their patients have bought into the expectations that pills are the best solution.

But as a physician who never accepts anything from drug companies and never gives away "free" samples, I can assure you that many physicians are quite unlike those you are working with. We know a lot about both drugs and people and the problems they have.

There has really been a lot of good advice on this thread. From my perspective, for the person without depression or anxiety (which about 20-30% of us have), medication is usually not the best solution, but can help in some very difficult situations. But there are a number of different causes of insomnia, and to make it sound like one solution fits all is either naive, boastful, or just plain wrong.

[ensignada]

Slowswim,

Wow. I'm a bit stunned at your blanket negative response to medicines. Your beliefs are obviously steeped in your experiences, and I respect your right to choose for yourself.

I personally find the "drugs are evil" refrain overly simplistic and tiresome. It is usually comes from people who have had the good fortune not to be in a position to need them. It is often highly insulting, not to mention condescending and patronizing, to people who do not share in that same good fortune. It is borderline cruelty to tell people who might benefit from drugs that they should be able to resolve their situation themselves or that they should not trust their physician to assess their situation.

I take meds every day for a chronic and potentially life-threatening condition and am happy to take them as long as they work for me. I take a med at night to ease the insomnia effects of the main drugs. Time has proven this the best treatment plan for me. I'm healthy, living life well and grateful for it.

Drugs aren't the answer to everything, nor should they be the first response in many cases. I think people should be allowed to work out what works best for them without our judgment.

[The Fortress]

I just read today in the doctor's office (annual eye check) that, according to a recent National Sleep Foundation survey, 7 out of 10 Americans have trouble sleeping for myriad reasons. 40% or more have experienced or suffer from insomnia. Some people can't sleep because of pregnancy or "old lady" stuff -- this would be the chemicals/hormones messing with us. (Yeah, I didn't dream this up.) Many women also can't sleep because of the "rushing-ness" of their lives. (That's a real surprise too.)

I had two other thoughts, Beth.

Do you have a good mattress?

Do you have allergies, like to dust mites that hide in beds and pillows?

[FlyQueen]

Beth, it's a FAF sistah trait ...

Lots of good advice here (and honestly I haven't read it all) but ...
Have a routine, try melatonin (it occurs naturally in your body and helps to regulate those circadian rhythms), NO caffiene after about 10am, only use your bed for nookie & sleeping (no reading or tv), try tensing then relaxing all of your muscles, start at your toes and work your way up ...

[ensignada]

Sometimes a change of venue works for me, i.e. sleeping on the couch or in another bedroom. I have no idea why this works for me, but it does.

[SwimStud]

Sometimes a change of venue works for me, i.e. sleeping on the couch or in another bedroom. I have no idea why this works for me, but it does.

We have a spare bedroom that is like a ilness recovery room. My daughter goes in there when she coughs at night (it's persisitent and really annoying) and she goes into that room and is silent. It's very odd.

The room has a very nice "feel" to it very calm. I think there's some sort of kind spirit or energy flow in there.

Well I guess I've just opened my self up for some mocking about my beliefs now...but I invite any of you to stay over and see for yourself...;)

[Karen Duggan]

When we moved into our house 4 years ago we were so happy it had a large walk-in closet. It turned out to just fit an AeroBed (inflatable). When my husband worked graveyard- he'd sleep in the closet! It was absolutely pitch black and totally sound proof. What amazed me is that it's upstairs, but centrally located in the house, and he couldn't here a thing!!! With three young children, two dogs, a cat, the phone, the TV... that's amazing.
BTW, I liked to call it the "Pat Cave". :p

[swimr4life]

THANK-YOU ALL for all the good advice and ideas! I'm trying a combination of everything and feel like a white lab rat!:p I've been swimming more and I think that has helped me more than anything else! I'm actually tired at night and ready for bed. Now...if I could just sleep more than 5 hours without waking! But....at least I'm sleeping 5 hours and I can function much better! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. You guys are the best!!!:smooch:

[Karen Duggan]

Yea, Beth. :woot:

I can't believe I'm actually cheering for you to slow down!!! :dunno:

I'm glad you're improving.

:smooch:

[craiglll@yahoo.com]

I can't imagine not being able to sleep. I can sleep anywhere, anytime, any position. It is only &:55 am I've been up since 6:00am and I could go tosleep now and probably slepp for about 3 hours. I don't know too many swimmers who can't sleep. I think that is odd.

[swimr4life]

Wow...count your blessings. I guess perception is reality. I think it is kind of odd to be able to take a 3 hour nap anytime you wanted...

[The Fortress]

I think that is odd.

If 7 out of 10 people have sleep issues, it is the opposite of "odd." I know plenty of athletes that have sleep issues. Plus, in my experience, and I don't know the statistics, there is a difference between men and women. Out of the blue, and perhaps because my little kid has been waking up early, I'm now having the wake up too early problem. But there is no time in my day for a 3 hour nap. That would be odd.

[MichiganHusker]

Fort & Beth - Are you still having problems sleeping? Have you tried getting a massage? Sometimes I can't sleep because my muscles are all tense and I can't seem to relax. I was wondering if this could work for you?

[laineybug]

More than 5 hours at a time! I wish! Wake up every 2 hours like clockwork then have difficulty going back to sleep. Ambien works wonders.

[The Fortress]

Fort & Beth - Are you still having problems sleeping? Have you tried getting a massage? Sometimes I can't sleep because my muscles are all tense and I can't seem to relax. I was wondering if this could work for you?

Susan:

I'm sure massages would work wonders! Muscle relaxation is key. Just hard to fit them in. And I'm usually up a bit later than Mr. Fort, although he can give a good one.

I'm sleeping all right. I've been exhausted lately (and hence my prior signature) because I've been getting up at 4:00 am 2x week to take my 12 year old to LC practice. Ugh. Can't get back to sleep after. But now that school is out she is on a new schedule. She has practice at 3-5 pm now and only one fairly early one at 6:30. Hurray!! :groovy: Can't wait to sleep in this week. :agree: