Smoking fast!!!

[hrietz]

Since I am in the Dixie Zone, I was perusing the results of meets this weekend and saw that Dara Torres, who turned 40 on Sunday, went 21.91 in the 50 free and 48.34 in the 100 free this weekend in St. Petersburg this past weekend. I guess that she is serious about this comeback. It will be interesting to see how she can do long course.

Since I was at Y Nationals, I looked up results to see how she would have done against the men. There was one 31 yo who was faster in both the 50 and 100 and a 45 yo who was faster in the 100 by a small amount. Pretty incredible.

[swimr4life]

She is my hero!:bow: :applaud:

[ande]

here's the link to the results
http://www.midnightsports.com/2007/20070413spm/Results.pdf
her scy times show she's in great shape. Obviously she's training for the 2008 Olympics and with those times, she's a definite contender. as far as her comeback is concerned, she's doesn't need to come much further, looks to me like she's just about back.

I'm curious to see how she'll do this summer.

She's got a great shot of making the 4 x 100 free relay,
in the 100 fr I think it's going to take a 53.7 to make top 2 and 54.5 to make top 6
the 50 is a crap shoot but worth training for,
the 200 is 75 meters too far for her

ande

I need to train to beat her in the 100 fr

Since I am in the Dixie Zone, I was perusing the results of meets this weekend and saw that Dara Torres, who turned 40 on Sunday, went 21.91 in the 50 free and 48.34 in the 100 free this weekend in St. Petersburg this past weekend. I guess that she is serious about this comeback. It will be interesting to see how she can do long course.

Since I was at Y Nationals, I looked up results to see how she would have done against the men. There was one 31 yo who was faster in both the 50 and 100 and a 45 yo who was faster in the 100 by a small amount. Pretty incredible.

[imspoiled]

You just made my day with this news!!!

This means she's not in my age group any more!!!!:groovy: :groovy:

[hrietz]

I think that she's got a great chance of making the 2008 Olympic team in the 50 free. She still holds the American record at 24.63 which is almost .2 ahead of the rest of the field. I think that her 21.91 is her all time PR or at least very close so in theory she could be close to this time (24.63) this summer. Kara Lynn Joyce did a PR at Worlds of 24.80 so I really don't see her improving that much more. Coughlin's PR is 24.98 and she is the only other one in the ball park. Coughlin may opt out of the 50 free given her less than optimal result in this event at Worlds and the schedule of her other events in which she is undoubtedly much stronger. If Coughlin's out, then Dara could turn into one of the favorites.

[Jeff Commings]

Her time is my goal in the 50 at nationals. I hope to go a second faster in the 100, though.

Now I have something to shoot for in my freestyle races at nationals, besides embarrassing myself.

By the by, I really am glad to see Dara going for it again.

[runner girl]

Wow, she's just amazing. I can't even imagine the fortitude she must have to get back into that kind of shape.

I have one question, why is she swimming in masters meets? Aren't there USS meets that she could swim in?

[thewookiee]

Once Dara retired the last time, she signed a retirement form in essence. If a swimmer decides to un-retire, they must notify FINA and USA swimming about their intentions to try to compete at the elite level again. Once this has happened, they are put back on the drug testing list. Before they can compete in swim meets for their respective federations, they must go through a nine month waiting period.

Her 9 month period will be up sometime this summer or early fall. The rule requiring her to wait only applies to USA swimming not masters swimming. That is why she hasn't been in any USA meets. I actually met her masters coach in Coral Springs in Dec. He said once the waiting period is over, she will be in USA meets.

[knelson]

I wonder how hard Dara has been training to this point? If she's only semi-serious at this point look out!

It will be interesting to see what happens if she does make the Olympic team. I think most people will be impressed and very supportive, but I bet there will be some people who feels she's "stealing" a spot from a younger athlete who hasn't been to the Olympics before.

[FlyQueen]

Kirk that drives me nuts ... one thing I LOVE about swimming is how clear cut it is ... top 2 (or 6) go ... If Dara is top 2 or 6 then she deserves to make the team AND what an inspiration to the other swimmers that it's not over when you're 20 or 25 or whatever ...

[thewookiee]

If she makes the team, by finishing top 2 or 6, I don't understand how that can be considered stealing a spot, when she met the guidelines. If a younger person felt they deserve the spot, then they should trainer harder to earn it.

[Muppet]

If a younger person felt they deserve the spot, then they should trainer harder to earn it.

Amen.

Sure, Dara will potentially take the spot of a younger swimmer - she'll be the oldest one there. BUT, with the plethora of elite, professional athletes succeeding well into their 40s (baseball: roger clemens, randy johnson, barry bonds; football: darrell green retired at 42 a few years back, morten andersen is ~46 and still kicking field goals), seeing Dara make TWO successful comebacks at her "advanced" age should be very humbling and enlightening to these kids.

So what if they can't make the cut in 2008. Provided Dara makes it, there are 5 more Games a 20-year-old "kid" has a shot at based on Dara's experience (we know at least 4). Or if they're really desparate for immediate results, they can move to Qatar.

[Karen Duggan]

Speaking of "kid"- my God, she just had one!!!!
That's what I think is amazing. She seemed to not miss a step in her training... that's impressive. If she makes it, she's the fastest, she goes. End of story. I see age in our society as not being much of an "excuse" anymore. It's about hard work and talent, at any age, in my opinion.

We, mere mortals (me, I'll speak for me) have really struggled balancing: family, work, and swimming. All hail Dara :notworthy:

[imspoiled]

Stealing, BAH! She will EARN a spot on the team by swimming a great race. It would only be stealing if she were appointed to the team after trials.

If she makes it at 40, it will be awesome. Inspirational. Exceptional.

[SwimStud]

edited away...don't want anyone getting the wrong idea

[jim clemmons]

Curious if this has had any positive effect on her perfomances? I'm just kind of hypothesising...

Besides a temporary condition perhaps related to added boyancy? I'll bet any temporary condition has disappeared...

[aquaFeisty]

Once Dara retired the last time, she signed a retirement form in essence. If a swimmer decides to un-retire, they must notify FINA and USA swimming about their intentions to try to compete at the elite level again. Once this has happened, they are put back on the drug testing list. Before they can compete in swim meets for their respective federations, they must go through a nine month waiting period.

Her 9 month period will be up sometime this summer or early fall. The rule requiring her to wait only applies to USA swimming not masters swimming. That is why she hasn't been in any USA meets. I actually met her masters coach in Coral Springs in Dec. He said once the waiting period is over, she will be in USA meets.

Interesting. So what happens if Dara sets an American Record in say, the 50 free, while she is still in the 9 month waiting period?

[SwimStud]

same with this--

"move along"

[Muppet]

Interesting. So what happens if Dara sets an American Record in say, the 50 free, while she is still in the 9 month waiting period?

it will probably be the USMS record least likely to ever meet its demise

[aquaFeisty]

I believe Dara already just obtained a couple of USMS records that have decades before their demise!! :)

Edit by Carrie: well, decades before their demise by anyone but Dara.

[thewookiee]

Interesting. So what happens if Dara sets an American Record in say, the 50 free, while she is still in the 9 month waiting period?

Good question. Don't know how that works. Let's hope she swims to American record, then see how it is treated. Could this be a rare time that a USMS record is faster than a USA record?

Pretty neat if it happens.

[aquaFeisty]

It would be AWESOME!! Dara is one amazing mommy!

[knelson]

I remember she swam at Coral Springs last year just a few weeks after giving birth, so I think the key is not allowing the birth of her child to upset her training regimen too much rather than any hormonal advantages from being pregnant.

This is a woman who's been one of the premier sprinters in the world since she was something like 14. She is just an incredibly talented sprinter not to mention a fierce competitor.

[SwimStud]

not allowing the birth of her child to upset her training regimen too much

That's a feat for a guy let alone the woman!

[Karen Duggan]

"Oh grasshopper (aka Swim Stud), you are very wise, indeed."

:notworthy:

[jonblank]

I wonder how hard Dara has been training to this point? If she's only semi-serious at this point look out!

It will be interesting to see what happens if she does make the Olympic team. I think most people will be impressed and very supportive, but I bet there will be some people who feels she's "stealing" a spot from a younger athlete who hasn't been to the Olympics before.

They might say the same thing about 40 year old Gail Devers, who's back in great form at age 40 in the "dryland" sprint events. Hers is an amazing story as well - she had a severe health issue, yet now at age 40 is on top of the world again in the sprints. I would love to see Devers make the 08 Olympic team in track and Torres make the 08 Olympic team in swimming. That would show those young upstarts!

[The Fortress]

That's a feat for a guy let alone the woman!

Yep. My husband had to wait on me while I was on bed rest for baby #3. My own training regime was lifting water and food to my mouth and holding a book. Oh, and taking RX drugs. It was so rigorous that I finally decided to become two people again. Then my husband went back to training. I started my un-rigorous swimming regimen about 5 years later.

I hope Dara kicks ass.

[Leonard Jansen]

Speaking of older athletes who accel, here is a link to Ray Sharp's blog. Ray was my roomie when we lived at the Olympic Training Center. He is now 46 or 47 and still making U.S. teams in racewalking. He has a shot at the Oly team in the 50k walk. He's also a wonderful person.http://www.rayswalkingdigest.com

-LBJ

[hofffam]

The USA history for 50 SCY Free is available here. (http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/_Rainbow/Documents/b133c2d4-ae78-46fc-af71-7419790a93fc/scy%20women%20event%20history.pdf)

Her 21.91 ties for 12th fastest ever. It is faster than her previous lifetime best of 22.26. Dara's time is faster than Natalie Coughlin's best!

Simply stunning.

[knelson]

I bet there will be some people who feels she's "stealing" a spot from a younger athlete who hasn't been to the Olympics before.

Just to say "I told ya so," here's a quote from someone using the ID "50M Warrior" on Timed Finals about Dara:

If Dara does squeak onto yet another OLY team, which is what this post originally brought up, she deprives one or more Olympic hopefuls of fulfilling their lifetime dream, one they have struggled mightily to achieve. Sure, it’s “fair” that she makes it onto the team, but is it right? Is it…decent?

Here's the full story with all the comments:
http://www.timedfinals.com/17042007/40-years-young-torres-is-coming-back-strong/

[Karen Duggan]

I don't have time to read that article now, but I already know the answer. How is she depriving someone else of their chance? Can't they beat her? Oh, they can't? THEN THEY SHOULDN'T BE ON THE OLYMPIC TEAM!!! Give me a break. I hate to open this can of worms, but it's almost age discrimination against Dara. "Oh, yes you are the fastest, but you've already been to the Olympics, let someone younger go instead." What crap is that?!?

Dara, you make that Olympic team, girl! I want to see your baby in the stands cheering you on! OK, they're probably too young to know, but you get the idea ;)
PS In 2012 your baby will be 4, that's old enough to know! Swim in that one too :woot:

[knelson]

I don't have time to read that article now, but I already know the answer. How is she depriving someone else of their chance? Can't they beat her? Oh, they can't? THEN THEY SHOULDN'T BE ON THE OLYMPIC TEAM!!!

Exactly. Read the comments when you have the time because they will piss you off.

[CreamPuff]

Exactly. Read the comments when you have the time because they will piss you off.

Read 'em. Some comments are so outrageous, those individuals carry 0% credibility with me. GO DARA!!!

Great site though. Thanks for sending the link.

[emmainutz]

Masters swimming doesn't drug test and that is a fact. If she swims in USS meets she is subject to random drug testing. She can do anything she wants right now since she is off the radar. Does this ability of hers to swim a personal best in Feb 07 and then knock almost a half second off her time seem unnatural to anyone but me? How is she defying that natural aging process that the rest of us can't seen to win. Urine tests detect so little these days - How about lie detector tests for athletes?
Do you HGH????

[knelson]

Maybe her technique is better now. Maybe these speed suits really are faster. Maybe her training now is better for her in the 50. Maybe the fact she was way ahead of everyone at the turn helped.

Yes, it's phenomenal she set a personal best at age 40, but I don't think it's "unnatural." The bottom line is she'll have to pass drug tests if she wants to make a run at the Olympics next year. I'd be surprised if we see a drop off in her speed between now and Olympic Trials. That, of course, doesn't prove she isn't doping, but it's as much proof as we have for every other athlete.

[emmainutz]

You guys all seem Pro Dara - call me crazy, but doesn't this seems just a little unnatural to anyone? And here is a question to think about. Is it OK to inject or ingest a performance enhancing substance just because it isn't banned YET? My guess is that all her money buys access to the latest and greatest in performance enhancement or the ones already out there. After chasing infertility for years you would thing she would enjoy time with her baby rather than seeking the media attention this is going to generate. I think the media blitz surrounding her biggest rival, Jenny Thompson's return to the Athens Olympics was too much for her to handle! I think her desire for this level of attention is pathetic.
What do you think...

[emmainutz]

Maybe her technique is better now. Maybe these speed suits really are faster. Maybe her training now is better for her in the 50.



naaahhhhhhhhhhhh!

[scyfreestyler]

Maybe her technique is better now. Maybe these speed suits really are faster. Maybe her training now is better for her in the 50. Maybe the fact she was way ahead of everyone at the turn helped.

.


So why aren't more 40 somethings having the same success? Improved technique, better suits, and better training are not things that are hard to come by for determined swimmers. I am not saying she is juicing, but I will say that it seems odd.

[hofffam]

You guys all seem Pro Dara - call me crazy, but doesn't this seems just a little unnatural to anyone? And here is a question to think about. Is it OK to inject or ingest a performance enhancing substance just because it isn't banned YET? My guess is that all her money buys access to the latest and greatest in performance enhancement or the ones already out there. After chasing infertility for years you would thing she would enjoy time with her baby rather than seeking the media attention this is going to generate. I think the media blitz surrounding her biggest rival, Jenny Thompson's return to the Athens Olympics was too much for her to handle! I think her desire for this level of attention is pathetic.
What do you think...

Her times are incredible and the question of performance enhancing substances is a natural one to ask. Based on pictures though she certainly doesn't look like the East German girls of decades ago. She hasn't developed a massive head like Barry Bonds. She will get tested in world class competition and we'll see how that plays out. If somehow we learn she is cheating I hope she is disgraced forever.

As for her desire for attention....that is a silly comment. She didn't issue a press release or go on Bill Costas' show. I think she is simply a competitor. She likes racing and winning. She's highly motivated - as most elite athletes are. So what? Even as a new mother, it probably isn't too big a deal to carve out two hours a day to train.

As it is - her recent swimming is exciting and I look forward to her attempt to get to the Olympics (hopefully cleanly).

[knelson]

So why aren't more 40 somethings having the same success? Improved technique, better suits, and better training are not things that are hard to come by for determined swimmers. I am not saying she is juicing, but I will say that it seems odd.

I bet there are some 40 year olds setting personal bests, the difference is none of them are multi-time Olympians! I admit it's an amazing accomplishment, but Dara has shown the ability to swim fast at every stage of her career since she first came onto the scene as a teenager.

[lefty]

Dara went a 22.6 when she was a 16 year old struggling with anorexia. This is hardly surprising. It is fun to imagine what she would have been had she trained properly in her prime.

[Rob Copeland]

call me crazyOkay, Jane you’re crazy.:dunno:

I have not analyzed Dara’s training regime from 20 years ago and today, so I can’t really comment about any changes she has made to account for the improvement. However, if you look at 50 times for elite swimmers in general, you may notice that there has been a marked drop in records and overall performance. This is frequently attributed to greater focus on weight training and technique.

Are Dara and her coaches taking advantages of the advances in training? I’d hope so, or she should fire her coach.


Is it OK to inject or ingest a performance enhancing substance just because it isn't banned YET?
Do you have any performance enhancing substance in mind? As a matter of full disclosure, I readily admit that I ingest performance enhancing substances that have not yet been banned. I often drink water and eat food. Both of these are proven performance enhancers.


Pro-Dara??? I prefer to believe I have a presumption of innocence. Just because a swimmer is fast, doesn’t mean he or she cheats. Maybe they are just working hard.

However if you or anyone has evidence of cheating, then it should be brought forward. Cheating should not be tolerated and neither should making spurious accusations.

[swimr4life]

Okay, Jane you’re crazy.:dunno:

I have not analyzed Dara’s training regime from 20 years ago and today, so I can’t really comment about any changes she has made to account for the improvement. However, if you look at 50 times for elite swimmers in general, you may notice that there has been a marked drop in records and overall performance. This is frequently attributed to greater focus on weight training and technique.

Are Dara and her coaches taking advantages of the advances in training? I’d hope so, or she should fire her coach.


Is it OK to inject or ingest a performance enhancing substance just because it isn't banned YET?
Do you have any performance enhancing substance in mind? As a matter of full disclosure, I readily admit that I ingest performance enhancing substances that have not yet been banned. I often drink water and eat food. Both of these are proven performance enhancers.


Pro-Dara??? I prefer to believe I have a presumption of innocence. Just because a swimmer is fast, doesn’t mean he or she cheats. Maybe they are just working hard.

However if you or anyone has evidence of cheating, then it should be brought forward. Cheating should not be tolerated and neither should making spurious accusations.

I agree wholeheartedly with you Rob! Here is a woman who is a role model for females of all ages. :bow:

[Karen Duggan]

Even as a new mother, it probably isn't too big a deal to carve out two hours a day to train.


Ooh, gotta disagree with THAT one. I don't care how elite, talented, or determined you are, 2 hours is a huge chunk of time you are not with your baby. However, if they sleep the same two hours every day... :lmao:

Yea, right. It's all about priorities isn't it?

And BTW, I thought Jenny looked far more flustered when Dara showed up, not the other way around.

[breastroker]

I talked to Dara during the 2004 Olympic trials. She has always been one of the most beautiful women swimmers of all time.

But she made it clear to me that although she does weights, her stretching program is what makes her fast. I still have the card from her stretching guru somewhere, he was going to write a book.

Stretching has really come forwards to complement weight training.