Drug Testing in Masters Swimming

[TheGoodSmith]

Who would be opposed to drug testing in Masters Swimming? What would be the cost to implement such a program to test winners at US Masters Nationals? and finally, What drugs do you think would potentially be found?..... HGH?.... Testosterone?..... THG?....... IGF-1?..... designer steroids?

[Muppet]

Wow, John, quite a proposition there.
Honestly, I think most of USMS's swimmers are upstanding. That being said, I don't doubt for a second that there is cheater out there. But here's some thoughts, both for and against:

Assuming a 1st place winner, both genders in every single event in every single age group from 18-99, thats a max of 576 drug tests. Obviously there will be repeats. I have no idea how much a drug test costs, but lets say its $75 x 350 swimmers - thats $30k.

Testing winners - I have a problem with just testing the winners. How biased! What about the rest of the field? This year, you still have a ~1100 non-winners and potential cheaters.

Professionals, Olympians, NCAA athletes - they all have somebody (or manybodies) watching over their diets, meds, supplements, etc., as these babysitters all know what is and isn't legal/performance enhancing. How many times do we hear of athletes testing positive for something that was in an allergy/cold med? There would have to be a massive education campaign, and I am sure that would be a HUGE cost.

To what standard of testing would USMS adhere to? Olympics? FINA, NCAA? NFL/MLB/NHL... There are plenty of standards out there.

Finally, I think the most common infraction would be a diet-related banned substance. I think we've all seen some pretty questionable quick weight-drops in our time...
:2cents:

[stillwater]

Why test?

It is, after all, only masters swimming.

Miles

[aquageek]

Can we please get a full list prior to Austin so I can make sure I'm clean by the time the swimming and testing starts.

I would give the current items I take but then gull and scyfreestyler would disown me.

[CreamPuff]

Just doesn't seem feasable due to cost among other things.
What would our membership cost increase to - $500/ year?

I actually wouldn't be opposed to paying a huge yearly membership fee if we got certain things in return for it like equal, random drug testing (not just the winners as mup stated); if you attend a sanctioned meet, times will count for Top 10, ; free tee shirts; etc.

With increased age, people seem to need to take more drugs for serious issues. What a nightmare to have to decide what would and would not be "allowed." Would people stop taking required, necessary meds at a risk to their health just to be "clean?"

I'm still of the firm belief that people are hurting themselves if they are taking something that's performance enhancing - it will come back around to them either physically, mentally, or otherwise. What's that Justin Timberlake song - What Goes Around Comes Around. . .

Ick. What a mess to try and test and determine what's banned and not. Masters ain't the Olympics.

[scyfreestyler]

I say spare no expense...these cheats need to feel the wrath of L'Equipe.

[SwimStud]

I've got a spare vat of tar in my garage....does anyone own a poultry farm?

If they started testing I'd just not bother competing.

If you want to cheat yourself go right ahead. As long as I'm not losing money on the deal knock yourself out.

[gull]

So much for better living through chemistry.

[Paul Smith]

This is what happens when JS takes a leave of absence from the forum....goes for a nice 45 degree dip over the weekend.....clears his head and back with a vengance!

I'd actually like to see the "Team Clean" proposal that the head of testing at UCLA has made several times....there's little doubt that there is some level of cheating most likely on every level of every sport....its sad and pathetic and a reality....but tough to figure out how to fix.

[jim clemmons]

First off - what is the maximum level of caffeine :coffee: allowable?

[imspoiled]

I think testing at the masters level may be overkill. As others have mentioned, there are just too many things we do that could effect a test. Like my asthma inhaler. If I take a hit off the albuterol before the race, or right after to get my lungs back, will that skew a result? Too much to acccount for with masters. Would we have to develop a scaled dosage chart for each age-group so as we age up our prescribed meds are properly accounted for?

On the flip side, if testing were to come to be, perhaps the way to go is to test World/ National record breaking swims. That would reduce the cost of the program, since there would be less of these in any given meet than there would be "winners".

[Swimmer Bill]

:dedhorse:

[TheGoodSmith]

Testing only World record or US record swims........... Certainly would be more cost effective than testing every winner in every age group.

What about this ...... Have all drugs legal in masters swimming, but require complete disclosure prior to major competition. Then if you get tested and there's a drug not on your disclosed list....... you get to have your photo on the front of SWIM magazine........ :-)

It's just masters swimming..... :-)


John Smith

[aquageek]

Personally, I think the Smiths should be the first to belly up to the urinal to set the example for all of us. I've heard catheterization is the only way to get a truly accurate test. Therefore, let that be the mode the Smiths employ on the first ever USMS Drug Testing Protocol. We shall make it a 2/3 testing routine also.

Based on their experiences, we shall decide the best course for the rest of us.

[Swimmer Bill]

:shakeshead: :rolleyes:

[Brian Stack]

First off - what is the maximum level of caffeine :coffee: allowable?

Are you sure you want to ask that Mr.:coffee: :coffee:Red Bull :coffee: :coffee:Red Bull :coffee: :coffee: Tums!

[imspoiled]

Are you sure you want to ask that Mr.:coffee: :coffee:Red Bull :coffee: :coffee:Red Bull :coffee: :coffee: Tums!

Now that's MY kind of substance abuse!

Why do people keep saying it ONLY masters swimming? I realize that I'll never be a world contender, but why does that mean I/we should not take the sport seriously?

If we were talking about the irradication of a species and someone said, "they're ONLY cockroaches", well, ok--BUT I'm not a cockroach! Hearing masters swimmers say it's only masters swimming is like...well, cannibalism.

[scyfreestyler]

Personally, I think the Smiths should be the first to belly up to the urinal to set the example for all of us. I've heard catheterization is the only way to get a truly accurate test. Therefore, let that be the mode the Smiths employ on the first ever USMS Drug Testing Protocol. We shall make it a 2/3 testing routine also.

Based on their experiences, we shall decide the best course for the rest of us.


Absolutely. Foley's for all Top 10 swimmers.

[scyfreestyler]

Now that's MY kind of substance abuse!

Why do people keep saying it ONLY masters swimming? I realize that I'll never be a world contender, but why does that mean I/we should not take the sport seriously?

If we were talking about the irradication of a species and someone said, "they're ONLY cockroaches", well, ok--BUT I'm not a cockroach! Hearing masters swimmers say it's only masters swimming is like...well, cannibalism.


In all seriousness, it is only Masters Swimming. There is no prize money at stake. There are no USMS athletes on Wheaties boxes. It's about fun. If somebody chooses to juice in order to improve their performance, that is their misfortune and they will most likely suffer the consequences without any sort of USMS intervention.

[newmastersswimmer]

Who would be opposed to drug testing in Masters Swimming? What would be the cost to implement such a program to test winners at US Masters Nationals? and finally, What drugs do you think would potentially be found?..... HGH?.... Testosterone?..... THG?....... IGF-1?..... designer steroids?


Designer steroids? I'm not exactly sure what that is...but I think THG is one....but how pathetic would that be for someone to take something like that for a Master's Swim Meet anyway?? The whole topic of cheating like that for something like Master's swimming seems kind of out there IMO...Plus I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that these things are usually thought to be massively dangerous to your health as well.


Newmastersswimmer

[Paul Smith]

In all seriousness, it is only Masters Swimming. There is no prize money at stake. There are no USMS athletes on Wheaties boxes. It's about fun. If somebody chooses to juice in order to improve their performance, that is their misfortune and they will most likely suffer the consequences without any sort of USMS intervention.

Matt....there are some people (very few) out there who are making money (very little) from competing in USMS.

There are also a number of high caliber USS swimmers competing in masters meets.....probably not a big deal but these days when swimmers like Thorpe are suspected every great achievement is going to be looked at....USS, USMS, age group, etc.....

I still would be curious is a voluntary testing program could be put into place with little if any cost.....the UCLA guys point was that it would basically "shame" people into participating.

[CreamPuff]

Now that's MY kind of substance abuse!

Why do people keep saying it ONLY masters swimming? I realize that I'll never be a world contender, but why does that mean I/we should not take the sport seriously?

If we were talking about the irradication of a species and someone said, "they're ONLY cockroaches", well, ok--BUT I'm not a cockroach! Hearing masters swimmers say it's only masters swimming is like...well, cannibalism.

Just for the record, I too am not a cockroach. Only a masters swimmer.

[scyfreestyler]

Matt....there are some people (very few) out there who are making money (very little) from competing in USMS.

There are also a number of high caliber USS swimmers competing in masters meets.....probably not a big deal but these days when swimmers like Thorpe are suspected every great achievement is going to be looked at....USS, USMS, age group, etc.....

I still would be curious is a voluntary testing program could be put into place with little if any cost.....the UCLA guys point was that it would basically "shame" people into participating.


I was not aware that anybody was earning money in USMS as an athlete. Good to know.



The UCLA program you are reffering to is where the whole team pools their samples and nobody is singled out when the results are obtained, correct?

[TheGoodSmith]

Geek,

Paul and I be the first to belly up. I have plenty of urine to share. Unfortunately, I had to give up the caffeine late last year. My 50's will never recover from this decision.

I wonder if there is an illegal limit on motrin.


John Smith

[Karen Duggan]

I don't think I would be surprised to find some Masters "cheating". And it may very well be the ones profiting from their swimming success...

However, I know that most of the people ranking Top 10 World Times, World Records, etc. have an impressive swimming history. Many swam in USS Nationals as kids, made their Olympic Trials cuts, were American Record holders, won NCAA's, etc.

I think many of these people would voluntarily test if they were asked, as long as they didn't have to pay for it!

An amazing example of speed that I can think of is Clay Britt. There are many expletives I can think of to describe his swimming! Many Masters may not know he won 3 NCAA's in a row, until his senior year, when some upstart named Rick Carey came along! Clay is just a powerful, strong sprinter. He has immense talent. I believe he had at least one American Record- I'll check with my hubby on that one. For someone to imply that someone like Clay was cheating, would show their lack of knowledge of history.

How many other Master's swimmers do you know with similar backgrounds to Clay's? Probably more than you think. I can think of at least 10 off the top of my head.

Let's not confuse cheating with talent and hard work.

[Paul Smith]

Karen.....its bad enough we have to deal with 2 Longhorn alums (at least) on this forum (Evil & Commings)....PLEASE lets not bring another into the discussion here (even though we all like Clay the best)!

PS: Tell your husband if he's swimming that fast he's not spending enough time training for Rainier!

[Allen Stark]

First Masters swimming is vitaly important to me. Second,there are at least 2 swimmers I am pretty sure have used preformance enhancing drugs. If there were a cheap effective way to test I'd be for it as I am totally against any cheating. That said,I doubt there is a fair testing system given all the medications we need to take to as we age. I figure the unethical drugs are all bad for you in the long run and that Masters Swimming is about the long run. If you can't beat them out live them.

[Caped Crusader]

I don't think I would be surprised to find some Masters "cheating". And it may very well be the ones profiting from their swimming success...

However, I know that most of the people ranking Top 10 World Times, World Records, etc. have an impressive swimming history. Many swam in USS Nationals as kids, made their Olympic Trials cuts, were American Record holders, won NCAA's, etc.

Let's not confuse cheating with talent and hard work.

There must be some late bloomers among the Top Ten that were not stars as kids. (Eek symbol)

[knelson]

It's not worth it to me assuming we, as competitors, would be the ones footing the bill for the testing ( and who else would?). If someone wants to use drugs to beat me, go for it. Now, my position might change if I had the potential to set National or World records like Paul and John Smith, who knows.

[The Fortress]

I don't think I would be surprised to find some Masters "cheating". And it may very well be the ones profiting from their swimming success...

However, I know that most of the people ranking Top 10 World Times, World Records, etc. have an impressive swimming history. Many swam in USS Nationals as kids, made their Olympic Trials cuts, were American Record holders, won NCAA's, etc.

I think many of these people would voluntarily test if they were asked, as long as they didn't have to pay for it!

An amazing example of speed that I can think of is Clay Britt. There are many expletives I can think of to describe his swimming! Many Masters may not know he won 3 NCAA's in a row, until his senior year, when some upstart named Rick Carey came along! Clay is just a powerful, strong sprinter. He has immense talent. I believe he had at least one American Record- I'll check with my hubby on that one. For someone to imply that someone like Clay was cheating, would show their lack of knowledge of history.

How many other Master's swimmers do you know with similar backgrounds to Clay's? Probably more than you think. I can think of at least 10 off the top of my head.

Let's not confuse cheating with talent and hard work.

Clay was on the 1980 Olympic team too. But he's been a real slacker lately. No meets since his WR spree in Dec. at U Md.

I barely have time to get to practice, much less cheat. I'm just trying not to die of allergies and kid germs and sleep deprivation.

But, Kirk, would you really cheat? I mean, you're pretty darn fast already.

And is cheating only prevelant among national or world record holders? Or also among those aspiring to be such? I'm sure there are cheaters. I know 12 years olds taking HGH. They can all get on with their own bad selves. I'll continue to worry about getting through traffic to get to the pool or to the weight room so I don't have to run all the time. If they want to drug test me, they can show up at my house or get me at a meet. I don't feel like footing the bill or adding an extra errand to my day to show up to be drug tested. I'm not a cockroach either, but there are other things in my life besides swimming.

[Karen Duggan]

Ok, I admit it... I....moonlight as a cockroach! There I've said it, I feel better.
I was actually in "Damnation Alley". Did 'ya all see the cockroach scene in the casino? That wasn't actually me. Those were stunt doubles! And no cockroaches were hurt in the making of that movie.
Phew. I'll sleep better tonight. Beth, maybe if you too, admit that you're really a cockroach in sprinter's clothing, the insomnia will stop. :p

Caped- I did cover myself and say "most". :)

Bill- I agree :dedhorse:

[LindsayNB]

There must be some late bloomers among the Top Ten that were not stars as kids. (Eek symbol)

I can't decide whether it would be inspiring or depressing to have a list of such people... :confused:

Actually masters stars who didn't swim at all as kids would be the interesting list. I suspect it is a short list.

[Karen Duggan]

I for one, was not a "star" as a kid. And I don't consider myself a Masters star either. I did make one Masters World ranking once, that I know of, in all things the 1500m. And I didn't know it until years later! I've never searched the FINA data base for that stuff.

My hubby is pretty fast. He tried for Trials Cuts in 1988 and missed it. I don't know if he's had any World rankings in Masters... he didn't even learn how to swim until he was 15!

The swimming world is an interesting place. Wouldn't it be cool if there was a profile page, with a picture, for every member in USMS? You could say where you went to college, how long you've been swimming, swimming achievements, etc. I bet it would open a lot of eyes. Of course it would have to be password protected :) Jim Matysek, can you get on that for us? :p

[knelson]

But, Kirk, would you really cheat?

No, what I meant is my opinion on drug testing might change if I had National or World records.

[The Fortress]

No, what I meant is my opinion on drug testing might change if I had National or World records.

Oh, sorry, I misread. Didn't seem like you. You don't even take a vitamin.

I know a few people with top ten rankings that weren't stars as kids. (Depends how you define "star," I guess.) They did swim some as kids, but I don't think they competed that much, and definitely not in college. (Muppet comes to mind here.) It does seem that the vast majority of ranked masters swimmers have some AAU/USS background, but not all. The USMS WR holder and the All-American on my team were great college swimmers, but, man, they still work their asses off.

[SwimStud]

I know 12 years olds taking HGH.

This is truly sad. Who would permit their kid to do such a thing? Unless for Medical reasons.

Ironic too in how everyone felt aghast at the article about the 12 year old chinese girl running 100 miles a week being pushed by her parents in search of Olympic success.

[The Fortress]

This is truly sad. Who would permit their kid to do such a thing? Unless for Medical reasons.

It is sad. She's small, but still perfectly normal. She's very athletic and they want her to be taller and super-competitive on her nationally ranked soccer and basketball teams and whatnot. She's a swimmer too. They're very focused on sports. Her mother is a doctor, and should know better. But if 12 year olds are doing this, you can be assured that masters swimmers are too.

[SwimStud]

It is sad. She's small, but still perfectly normal. She's very athletic and they want her to be taller and super-competitive on her nationally ranked soccer team and whatnot. They're very focused on sports. Her mother is a doctor, and should know better. But if 12 year olds are doing this, you can be assured that masters swimmers are too.

That's BS. Height is not a requirement for soccer (ugh) you put the tall kids at the back or up front (and that is not 100% of the time either) the rest just need to be skillful. Low centre of gravity and fast turning ability can outwiegh jumping for a ball. Work on her vertical jump not making her taller.

Now if they feel she needs to be taller based soley on medical reasons that's a different argument.

I don't need performance enhancing drugs...I'd just not like to be ill at a meet.
:rofl:

[TheGoodSmith]

I think we can all agree that medically taking HGH for prepubescent smaller/shorter kids is a bit different than taking HGH in college or after.

Gull..... you're our resident medical expert here..... Question..... what are the symptoms of taking HGH after puberty?..... are they similar to acromegaly?


John Smith

[ensignada]

People don't have to cheat to beat me, but if they do, they're only cheating themselves. Like Kirk, I don't know how I'd feel if I were a real contender.

On the other hand, if random drug testing in Jr high and HS would prevent crazy parents coaches or kids from putting performance enhancing drugs in immature, growing bodies, then I'll sign my daughter up first.

[aquageek]

Gull..... you're our resident medical expert here..... Question..... what are the symptoms of taking HGH after puberty?..... are they similar to acromegaly?

There's this 40ish dude at our gym who is all beefed up and loud, to boot. I asked another weight lifter what was the deal and he said the guy is on the HGH.

Here's the symptoms I have noted now that I keep an eye on him - loud grunting when lifting weight, loud talking when walking around, huge arms and legs, heightened sense of self worth.

As a scrawny little swimmer I'm keeping my distance. He could twist me up like a pretzel.

[knelson]

Here's the symptoms I have noted now that I keep an eye on him - loud grunting when lifting weight, loud talking when walking around, huge arms and legs, heightened sense of self worth.

Does he also wear Zubaz pants and a do-rag? :)

[TheGoodSmith]

Geek,

For cripes sake, my wife says I exhibit half of those symptoms.

"Loud grunting when lifting weight (my basset hound), loud talking when walking around (mostly at my kids), heightened sense of self worth"


John smith

[SwimStud]

Does he also wear Zubaz pants and a do-rag? :)

Kirk...is that how we will spot you on deck?

[Paul Smith]

Geek,

For cripes sake, my wife says I exhibit half of those symptoms.

"Loud grunting when lifting weight (my basset hound), loud talking when walking around (mostly at my kids), heightened sense of self worth"


John smith

I wish there was something in this quote I could disagree with.....:thhbbb:

[aquageek]

Does he also wear Zubaz pants and a do-rag? :)

I didn't think to include this figuring it was just a known fact of the juiced up crowd. Don't forget the standard issue black sneakers and personalized leather weight lifing belt.

It does kind of spice up the 5 am crowd having this fellow stomping about, looking to beat someone up.

[hofffam]

I don't personally know any Masters swimmers using performance enhancing drugs.

I just gotta believe that some do. I don't think it is for money because there really isn't any in Masters swimming. I think a more likely reason is simply to defeat aging. Cosmetic surgery is at record levels. I HAVE seen Masters swimmers whose faces have obviously been tightened up. The mindset of using surgery to counter aging isn't that much different from using drugs.

Dara Torres might be able to make money from swimming again if/when she makes the Olympics as a 40 yr. old. But she has great looks and would be a fine model for Speedo. But she's one of a kind.

I think random testing at Nationals and Worlds might be an interesting and low cost thing to do. It creates a bit of fear that would be healthy. If a record-setter was caught - it would be a huge scandal and embarrasment. It might be interesting too to see if some fast swimmers focus on zones instead of Nationals to avoid random testing.

[islandsox]

There is absolutely no drug in the world that will ever make me fast again. But take away my poppy-seed muffin, and my gloves will come off:thhbbb:

[gull]

The actual benefit of hGH in athletes remains controversial. Known side effects include water retention and insulin resistance. Doubtful you'd see classic features of acromegaly develop. Keep in mind there are no large scale studies, for obvious reasons.

[lefty]

Here's the symptoms I have noted now that I keep an eye on him - loud grunting when lifting weight, loud talking when walking around, huge arms and legs, heightened sense of self worth.


Geek, I think most people like this have a really small sense of self-worth. Generally when people exagerate it is to cover their short-comings.

[Hoosier]

If you achieve a international, national, or state record maybe...but for me no real concern. cause after a year of HGH, Tetestorne injections, and some of Barry Bonds clear rub, probably/maybe break a 1:25 100 free, so not worth it, like the man says...if it dont cost me no money, why worry? p.s. only reason for post is I found out that you need a certain number to be able to post a custom Avatar...:)

[SwimStud]

Will we be seeing this type of thing on the podiums in the future???

:rofl: :rofl:

[The Fortress]

The actual benefit of hGH in athletes remains controversial. Known side effects include water retention and insulin resistance. Doubtful you'd see classic features of acromegaly develop. Keep in mind there are no large scale studies, for obvious reasons.

So you don't see acromegaly, but you do see tightened faces?!

John:

Maybe you should go ahead and try HGH instead of caffeine. LOL. Get rid of those squirrel arms. Supposed to be good for sprinters?

I think we should give a prize for anyone actually admitting to HGH use here. Yeah, that'll happen.

I'm sure everyone has their own suspicions or knowledge. Do people really think WR holders would skip nationals to focus on zones? That's be odd after awhile and create even more suspicion. And, like other cheating athletes, can't they just get off the stuff in time to not test positive? Or does HGH stay in your system a long time?

[aquageek]

In all reality, it would not be economically feasible to test all USMS members and such a program would surely limit our organization's growth.

I would be sorely dissapointed if any of our elite athletes are taking drugs to improve performance. Even with jobs, kids, etc, it does require a dedication to the sport to be in the Top 10 and I would like to think those few did it honestly. Nationals always seems to bring out the best so maybe a test program there where you have economies of scale coupled with the best in USMS.

[Hoosier]

Thinking about it some more...at the last meet I attended, testing would have been a good idea. Cause if anyone were taking them..they sure were not working! We could get the list out of non effective treatments...hehehe

p.s. Cha-Ching on the avatar

[gull]

So you don't see acromegaly, but you do see tightened faces?

I think the "tightened faces" reference was alluding to cosmetic surgery.

Let's make drug testing voluntary, get Dove to sponsor it, and award a tee shirt that says you're "clean" if you pass.

[SwimStud]

Thinking about it some more...at the last meet I attended, testing would have been a good idea. Cause if anyone were taking them..they sure were not working! We could get the list out of non effective treatments...hehehe




Hahaha very funny.

As for the tightened faces...I thought that was s side effect of continual exposure to cholorine...

[jim clemmons]

I think the "tightened faces" reference was alluding to cosmetic surgery.

Let's make drug testing voluntary, get Dove to sponsor it, and award a tee shirt that says you're "clean" if you pass.


Maybe it wasn't "tightened faces". Maybe it was a mispelling and should have read "tightened feces"??? :eek:

[geochuck]

They had better not test me. The four drugs I take and all the coffee I drink could have me barred.

[The Fortress]

I think the "tightened faces" reference was alluding to cosmetic surgery.

Let's make drug testing voluntary, get Dove to sponsor it, and award a tee shirt that says you're "clean" if you pass.

I must be blurry from all the drugs I'm taking. I can't read anymore. And I'm too worried about being busted for skipping nationals to focus on zones. There seem to be a lot of people skipping nationals this year. I like the t-shirt idea. I want one since I'm not getting the "Tour de la Pool" shirt. If I can't swim the 200 fly or 1650, at least I can be "clean."

SS: Chlorine is no good for your skin.

Jim:

How many of those red bulls do you suck down per day at a meet and how long does that red bull buzz last?

Hoosier:

I like that avatar! Not as much as the Red Sox, but not bad.

[jim clemmons]

Jim:

How many of those red bulls do you suck down per day at a meet and how long does that red bull buzz last?



Usually only one near my "lowpoint" of the afternoon depending on how much time is left before my next event. Add one ibuprofen and a cup of regular coffee about 45 minutes with the RB beforehand and you are SET TO GO!

Careful if you're on a relay though. You may have a tendency to jump early for some reason.

[Karen Duggan]

Ya know come to think of it... At the Pacific Champs, there was a huge cardboard box next to the dumpster full of empty Red Bull cans. I thought it strange, but then I just figured the age group team in Pleasanton was doing a recycling program... Jim, do you have anything to say? It's OK, we're all friends here. Remember the first step is to admit you have a problem. :p

[Muppet]

There is absolutely no drug in the world that will ever make me fast again. But take away my poppy-seed muffin, and my gloves will come off:thhbbb:

Donna, great point! Definetely a banned food. The blue muppet was unable to eat any of these, her favorite muffin, while she swam in college. After she stopped, the first food she ate was a Lemon Poppyseed Muffin.

And seeing as how part of my job is to eat food, I'd be screwed by a drug test at nationals! This very product (LPS Muffin) is due to come in for sampling this week! :dedhorse: YUM!!!

[Dennis Tesch]

The thing I like most about masters swimming is that everyone is in it for their own personal reasons. When it comes right down to it, when the race is over, you know whether you achieved what you wanted to achieve or not. Winning a gold medal is great and maybe having your face plastered all over "Swim World" or "Swimmer" boosts your ego, but you and only you know if your swim required a little extra "juice" to beat a couple swimmers you know you wouldn't have beat without the "juice".

I say don't test.... I'm sure there are many masters who sleep well at night knowing their swims where clean. :2cents:

[geochuck]

As you can see by my new Avatar, my drug of choice Margaritas.

[That Guy]

Jim Clemmons, do you get good results swimming with iboprofen? Reason I'm asking, one time many years ago I woke up with a knocker of a headache, who knows why. I took 2 ibuprofen and stumbled across the college campus to 6:30 am practice. Then proceeded to have one of the worst practices of my life. I was numb. Couldn't sprint. Couldn't do anything. Later I remembered the ibuprofen and realized it dulled my nervous system. Since then as a rule I will not take anything prior to swimming, no matter how much pain I'm in. Sprained ankle, sore knee, whatever... I save the ibuprofen until after swimming.

[ljlete]

Jim Clemmons, do you get good results swimming with iboprofen? Reason I'm asking, one time many years ago I woke up with a knocker of a headache, who knows why. I took 2 ibuprofen and stumbled across the college campus to 6:30 am practice. Then proceeded to have one of the worst practices of my life. I was numb. Couldn't sprint. Couldn't do anything. Later I remembered the ibuprofen and realized it dulled my nervous system. Since then as a rule I will not take anything prior to swimming, no matter how much pain I'm in. Sprained ankle, sore knee, whatever... I save the ibuprofen until after swimming.

The problem you had was probably from whatever gave you the headache. Ibuprofen and other NSAIDS do not work by affecting the nervous system. They work by stopping inflamation by inhibiting the COX-1 and COX-2 enzymes.

Leo

[blainesapprentice]

Donna, great point! Definetely a banned food. The blue muppet was unable to eat any of these, her favorite muffin, while she swam in college. After she stopped, the first food she ate was a Lemon Poppyseed Muffin.

And seeing as how part of my job is to eat food, I'd be screwed by a drug test at nationals! This very product (LPS Muffin) is due to come in for sampling this week! :dedhorse: YUM!!!
What the heck is your job, and how do I sign up?

[geochuck]

Jim

Be careful ibprophen is banned in horse racing, coffee also. Everyone is going to keep a close EYE on you. Thats the reason I don't enter races anymore - double shot cafe lattes, Tylenol threes, 2 x 650 mg aspirens, metformin, glyberide, plenidile, and Altace. No wonder it cost me $3000 for my health insurence when I go to Mexico.

I love those Margaritas in Mexico.

[newmastersswimmer]

As you can see by my new Avatar, my drug of choice Margaritas.


I'm with you on that one George!

[The Fortress]

I'm with you on that one George!

Me too. But George, I thought you were going to swim in some meets this summer!! What about the 50 fly and 50 free records? I want to see you on youtube, not just on your website!

[geochuck]

Hi Fort

I have been back from Mexico 2.5 weeks and have been in the water once. I am money hungry and have been very busy selling swim pools, not swimming. I had myself down to swimming the 50s very well and doing fairly good times but was also out of the pool for 2 weeks in Mexico with an inner ear infection and vertigo before I left there and 1 week out while driving home, so last 5 weeks one day swimming. I am flying all over to sell pools.

[shark]

I'm with you on that one George!

NMS,

Love that avatar! Go to Heaven or Blues for Allah?

[jim clemmons]

Jim Clemmons, do you get good results swimming with iboprofen? Reason I'm asking, one time many years ago I woke up with a knocker of a headache, who knows why. I took 2 ibuprofen and stumbled across the college campus to 6:30 am practice. Then proceeded to have one of the worst practices of my life. I was numb. Couldn't sprint. Couldn't do anything. Later I remembered the ibuprofen and realized it dulled my nervous system. Since then as a rule I will not take anything prior to swimming, no matter how much pain I'm in. Sprained ankle, sore knee, whatever... I save the ibuprofen until after swimming.

Yes I do, but just one.

[Allen Stark]

With Jim Clemmons admitted abuse of Red Bull,Coffee and Ibuprophen I move he be stripped of his First Place at Worlds in the 200 BR and the Gold awarded to WHO EVER was second.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: .Seriously that was a great race and one of my most memorable Worlds experiences. But since now I know your secret I'll have all Red Bull recalled in a 300 mi. radius of the meet.:rofl:

[geochuck]

Yes I do, but just one.

This is a story I heard from another user -I tried it once but never inhaled

[jim clemmons]

With Jim Clemmons admitted abuse of Red Bull,Coffee and Ibuprophen I move he be stripped of his First Place at Worlds in the 200 BR and the Gold awarded to WHO EVER was second.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: .Seriously that was a great race and one of my most memorable Worlds experiences. But since now I know your secret I'll have all Red Bull recalled in a 300 mi. radius of the meet.:rofl:

Hi Allen,

Actually, I took preemptive action and stashed a "sample" away in case word got out about this whole process. It's actually fairly rare that I resort to the "method". For that particular swim I was clean but, dang it, for the life of me I can't seem to locate that sample.

[3strokes]

I love those Margaritas in Mexico.

But what about Conchitas, Rosalitas, Carlitas, Juanitas, Carmencitas, Evitas, Adelitas and all the other señoritas?

[geochuck]

But what about Conchitas, Rosalitas, Carlitas, Juanitas, Carmencitas, Evitas, Adelitas and all the other señoritas?
Met lots of those but Chuckie says OK to look but don't touch.

[Slowswim]

Met lots of those but Chuckie says OK to look but don't touch.

I love the avatar, but your glass reminds me of my martini glasses.:drink:

In my house its: Just because your on a diet, doesn't mean you can't read the menu!:groovy:
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[geochuck]

Two Margaritas and I was staggering then Chuckie asked me to finish her's. We had Coconut Shrimp for dinner and was it good.

[Rob Copeland]

Please remember the topic of this thread is Drug Testing in Masters Swimming.

If you wish to swap recipes and drinks, we have a lovely new forum for non-swimming related threads.

[Karen Duggan]

Come on over to the penthouse suite. It's great fun :groovy:

BTW, I prefer 4 Advil after 6 races in one day :) Makes me sleepy.

[That Guy]

Thanks for the feedback on Ibuprofen. It might not be the cause of my lousy practice that day, but I'm going to stick with what works. If my brain expects me to swim badly on Advil then I just might do that, so...

[jim clemmons]

Thanks for the feedback on Ibuprofen. It might not be the cause of my lousy practice that day, but I'm going to stick with what works. If my brain expects me to swim badly on Advil then I just might do that, so...

Absolutely. What you think is generally what you will get.