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Walt Reid
July 10th, 2007, 02:12 PM
I would like to announce that FINA has just implemented a database of Masters Top10 Lists and Masters World Records.

The Masters Top 10 data can be accessed by Individual or Relay, Short or Long Course, Year, Gender, Age Group, and Swim Event. We have loaded all World Top10's from 1986 to 2006. There is also a "All Time" Top10 feature.

The Masters World Records can be accessed by Individual or Relay, Short or Long Course, As of Date, Gender, Age Group and Swim Event. This will give you a list of all the published record holders for the selected event. The records from 1985 to 2007 have been loaded. There is also a feature to view the published records for all events as of a specific date.

These new features are available by going to the FINA Web site at fina.org selecting the MASTERS page then either the Tabulations or Records.

So give it a try and I hope you enjoy the viewing.

Walt Reid
FINA Masters Recorder

okoban
July 10th, 2007, 02:24 PM
Very interesting list. 90 y/o gentleman swims 200 free under 3 minutes!!!:doh::(:confused::frustrated::whiteflag:

Blackbeard's Peg
July 10th, 2007, 02:27 PM
Very interesting list. 90 y/o gentleman swims 200 free under 3 minutes!!!:doh::(:confused::frustrated::whiteflag:
Isnt that sweet! Ambitious goal for us to train for for the next xx years.

smontanaro
July 10th, 2007, 03:20 PM
I personally find Jim McConica's performances awe-inspiring...

Skip Montanaro

CaliSwimmer
July 10th, 2007, 10:17 PM
I personally find Jim McConica's performances awe-inspiring...

Skip Montanaro

I swim with Jim every morning -- that is, I swim in the same pool and on the same team but way down at the slow end :laugh2: -- and he really is inspiring. An athlete and a gentleman and one of the more generous people I have ever had the pleasure to know. My daughter swims club and high school and Jim will drive two hours to see one of her meets and will time her and hold her towel while she races. He does that with all the high school-age kids on the club team, and shows no favorites. His work ethic is unsurpassed, as well. I was glad to see him on the cover of the USMS magazine last month.

Frank Thompson
July 13th, 2007, 09:53 AM
Walt:

This is a really great tool to research swimmers and what they have done in the past. Its also good to see a historical progression of Records and Top Ten times of all time. Is there a 1985 LCM Top Ten? I noticed there was a 1985 SCM Top Ten. I know FINA did not start doing the tabulations until 1992 and MSI did them from 1985 to 1991. Is there any way we could look at 1 year like they are done now from 2004 to 2006. I like the individual and event function but if you want to print what you did for the year you have to print it by event and that is a lot of printing. I like the World Record function and being able to see the World Records by year and how long swimmers had the World Record.

This is a little different than the USMS Top Ten in that we can go back beyond 1993 and see what swimmers were doing. The USMS website top ten section can track a swimmer for both SC and LC by year and event since 1993. USMS can also do an entire age group of events by course. I don't think you can print the entire USMS Top Ten by course like you can for the FINA 2004, 2005, and 2006. I think that is why you have the USMS Top Ten tabulation books for and can purchase them. I don't think USMS has a tracking for National/World Records by year and all time like FINA does.

Jeff Commings
July 13th, 2007, 11:41 AM
There is a glitch, though. Some of the world record holders are not listed at the top of the FINA top 10 in their age group, even though they have an official record.

For instance, this is the world record progression in the 30-34 mens 100 breast (LCM):
JASTREMSKI Carl USA 01:09.30 1972
HOWELL Bruce USA 01:06.87 1987
LUNDBERG David USA 01:05.65 18-08-1991
VAN NEERDEN Seth USA 01:05.64 23-08-1998
GILLINGHAM Nick GBR 01:05.02 26-08-1999
SCHMOLLINGER Patrick AUT 01:04.40 29-08-2003

And here is the all-time top 10 for that race and age group:
1 GILLINGHAM Nick GBR 01:05.02 1999
2 VAN NEERDEN Seth USA 01:05.64 1998
3 LUNDBERG David USA 01:05.65 1991
4 GUTHRIE David USA 01:05.80 1993
5 NOLTE Timo GER 01:05.85 2006
6 COMMINGS Jeff USA 01:06.10 2005
7 PACHEL Raiko EST 01:06.47 2004
8 TOGO Hideaki JPN 01:06.56 2002
9 VANDER MEY Mark USA 01:06.68 1996
10 HOWELL Bruce USA 01:06.87 1987

Why isn't Patrick Schmollinger at the top?

I saw this on a couple other races, in a couple other age groups, too.

scyfreestyler
July 13th, 2007, 11:46 AM
Those are obscenely fast LCM Breast times.

meldyck
July 13th, 2007, 01:04 PM
The Masters Top 10 data can be accessed by Individual or Relay, Short or Long Course, Year, Gender, Age Group, and Swim Event. We have loaded all World Top10's from 1986 to 2006. There is also a "All Time" Top10 feature.


I haven't yet been able to access anything but the All Time Top10, and yearly results from 2004, 2005 and 2006. I'm using the following URL: http://www.fina.org/masters/tabs.php which doesn't allow me access to other years, gender, age group and the like. The link named 'View the Tabulations Online' is inactive in the panel labeled 'New' right at the top of the choices. Where should I be looking?

Thanks,

Fritz
July 13th, 2007, 04:43 PM
I haven't yet been able to access anything but the All Time Top10, and yearly results from 2004, 2005 and 2006. I'm using the following URL: http://www.fina.org/masters/tabs.php which doesn't allow me access to other years, gender, age group and the like. The link named 'View the Tabulations Online' is inactive in the panel labeled 'New' right at the top of the choices. Where should I be looking?

Thanks,


I clicked on this

> VIEW THE TABULATIONS ONLINE

and even though it appears to be inactive it did take me to another page where I could generate custom lists.

I'll second that there are some problems. I generate a list as of 2006 that should have had my name it in and I wasn't there. If I change to ALL for the year then the list is correct.

My mistake. I thought it was giving you the top 10 all time as of the selected year but it's really the top ten for the selected year.

Walt Reid
July 13th, 2007, 06:19 PM
Jeff,

Each year the FINA Masters Top10 is built from Top10 lists submitted from member federations. Not all federations submit Top10 lists so that is why a swimmer can have a record but that swim is not listed in the World Top10. The swim you mentioned was not listed in that years Top10 as Austria did not submit a Top10

Jeff Commings
July 13th, 2007, 06:49 PM
Thanks, Walt. That clears it all up.

So, officially, the 1:05.10 I did last month will be the second-fastest time in the age-group, not the third!

jim clemmons
July 13th, 2007, 08:00 PM
Thanks, Walt. That clears it all up.

So, officially, the 1:05.10 I did last month will be the second-fastest time in the age-group, not the third!

And you're only .09 seconds away from a new world record with nat's this year along with an entire season (next year) in front of you!

Jeff Commings
July 13th, 2007, 08:07 PM
And you're only .09 seconds away from a new world record with nat's this year along with an entire season (next year) in front of you!

Actually, Jim, as you will note by Walt's message, the actual world record was not submitted by the Austrian organization for top 10 tabulations. So the world record is actually .70 away. But it's cool to know I'm so close to Nick Gillingham. What a legend.

If I knew I was .07 away, I'd be jetting around the country trying to find a masters meet in a good pool! As it is, I'm very happy with the time, especially since it's (1) a national record and (2) faster than Seth Van Neerden.

Frank Thompson
July 15th, 2007, 09:47 AM
Actually the Top Ten list is going to be faster than the World Record list because the top ten list would take into account all of the federations lists of times done during the year with all meets and not just Masters Sanctioned meets. So if you swim in a non masters meet and break the World Record, you don't get a World Record, even though you could be faster than the World Record because its not swam in a master meet, you would still show up on the top ten lists. I saw this a lot because I know in the USMS many swimmers turn in there times from USA Nationals, Olympic Trials, FINA World Cup, and other non sanctioned masters meets.

NotVeryFast
July 18th, 2007, 06:13 AM
First of all, I want to say what a great facility it is to be able to access the top 10s and world record progressions in this way, thank you very much for providing it.

Regarding the differences between the top 10s and the WRs, I believe in some cases it is actually due to a data error. For example:
Mens SCM 1500 free 35-39 all time top 10
1 GRISTWOOD Andrew GBR 15:57.93 1999
2 PATTEN Bobby USA 15:58.20 1999
...

Now, when we look at the WRs, it is Bobby's time that shows as the WR. The reason for this error is that Andrew's time was in fact 17:57.93 not 15:57.93:
http://www.bdsc.co.uk/han99m.htm#M1500Free

I don't know how widespread this is, but obviously the level of checking is greater for a WR than for inclusion in the top 10, so the WRs are hopefully definitive.

Ian Smith
July 18th, 2007, 07:27 PM
I have pointed out a number of apparent inconsistencies or errors in the all-time top 10 listings to Walt since they were put up about two years ago.

Walt has fixed all the issues I have raised. In fact, he has listed an email address on the FINA site for exactly this purpose.

There is a ton of data here and it's easier for swimmers checking out if they can make any list to find "errors" than for Walt to wade through this stuff to achieve 100% accuracy.

I'd rather have lists like this, with probably 99% initial accuracy and correctable over time, than nothing at all.

Thanks to Walt - these are great lists. (is someone doing this for the USMS?)
Ian.

Walt Reid
July 18th, 2007, 08:37 PM
Thanks for pointing out that error in the Men SCM 1999 Top10 age 35-39 1500 Free. I used that link to check it out and now have corrected that swim to a 17:57.93 instead of a 15:57.93. He is still in the 1999 Top10 but is now dropped from the All Time Top10.

It pleases me that people are using these tabulations. The more that look at them the better our changes of finding and fixing these errors.

Skip, I did get 1985 LCM Top10 loaded. So we now have 1985 SCM and LCM.

That is as far back as I can go with World Top10. MSI published these early World Top10s. If anyone has older Top10 Lists please contact me.

Frank Thompson
July 19th, 2007, 01:59 PM
Walt:

Thanks for the info on the 1985 LCM Top Ten. I believe MSI started the Top Ten lists in 1985 for both courses. I think I remember just a 1984 LCM list because that was the first year of the International Championships in New Zeeland. I do remember seeing a 1979/1980 list in the Swim Master Newsletter. I will check for both of these.

I agree with Ian Smith that these lists are great especially if you want to research a swimmer. I don't believe FINA has these kind of lists for Swimming. I know they have yearly lists for SCM and LCM and World Records by year but they don't a progession of times list or a progression list for World Records. USA Swimming has something similar to this is LCM and SCY but has absolutely nothing on SCM. They have a World Record progression for LCM and have American Record progression for both SCY and LCM. They have the All-Time Top Ten performances of swimming times by event. They also have an All-Time Top 25 Performers from around the World and an All-Time Top 25 US Performers from swimmers from the USA.

I would think that this would be pretty easy to do for FINA in Swimming. At least from far back as say 1960. I know thru the years I have seen lists from as far back as then. Is FINA going to print a 2006 edition of the Masters World Top Ten lists? I only see the 2005 edition for sale on the website. I have all the FINA books since 1992 and I was wondering if they were going to quit because everything is online now.