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View Full Version : Another breaststroker breaks through barriers



Jeff Commings
July 17th, 2007, 03:28 PM
Brendan Hansen went 59.98 in the 100 back at the Texas Senior Circuit meet. He's the first man to go under 1:00 in all four strokes. Wow.

Brendan was able to do something I couldn't do at that age: break the 1:00 barrier in the 100 back -- as well as break 1:00 in the 100 fly and 100 breast! I was always so close to the backstroke barrier, but never could get under, and I never got the opportunity to swim it shaved until masters, when I finally broke through.

I have no idea what his backstroke looks like or if he actually likes doing it, but I don't care. Let's welcome Brendan to the exclusive club of breaststrokers who do backstroke.

I wish I had been able to race Brendan. I went that exact same time (shaved, of course) at a meet six weeks ago.

Here's the report from timedfinals: "The Texas Senior Circuit Championships closed tonight in Austin with Longhorn Aquatics’ Neil Walker, Garret Weber-Gale, Tanica Jamison, and Nick Thoman providing great swimming. Twas a swim from a consolation final, however, that allowed World Record Holder Brendan Hansen to come away as the man of the night.

Hansen came into the B Final of the 100 back with the hopes of an entire aquatics complex nestled heavily on his back. One could cut the tension at the pool with a knife as Brendan uncomfortably jumped into the water and put his back to the pool. Not someone to shy away from dramatics, Hansen finished in an amazingly close 59.98 to the delight of the fans. The first man in history to go under 1:00 in all four strokes. Quite an impressive feat indeed. Congratulations Brendan."

knelson
July 17th, 2007, 03:50 PM
I think it's great to see these guys out there swimming events they don't normally do. I noticed Natalie Coughlin swam the 200 breast at the Janet Evans Invitational and went a very solid 2:33.5!
http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/ViewNewsArticle.aspx?TabId=0&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en&ItemId=1642&mid=2943

I always assumed her breast must be pretty bad and that's why she doesn't swim IM much. Obviously not the case since that time is well under the Olympic Trials cut!

FlyQueen
July 17th, 2007, 03:52 PM
The only swimmer with any real chance of doing this had to be a breaststroker - no one else would really come close in breaststroke. Fantastic job by Hansen, but I actually think it's funny that his backstroke is that "slow". I love when the elite swim off events that they supposedly "suck" at because it reminds of us of how amazing they are.

FlyQueen
July 17th, 2007, 03:53 PM
I think it's great to see these guys out there swimming events they don't normally do. I noticed Natalie Coughlin swam the 200 breast at the Janet Evans Invitational and went a very solid 2:33.5!
http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/ViewNewsArticle.aspx?TabId=0&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en&ItemId=1642&mid=2943

I always assumed her breast must be pretty bad and that's why she doesn't swim IM much. Obviously not the case since that time is well under the Olympic Trials cut!


Kurt I don't understand how she isn't challenging for the 200IM WR with her prowess in back, fly, and free. She should be right there with Hoff in this event.

Frank Thompson
July 17th, 2007, 04:26 PM
Jeff:

I know you are fimilar with David Lundberg. Back in 1988 he was 3rd in the Olympic Trials in the 100 meter Breast. Back in 1991/1992 when he was in the 30-34 age group I remember seeing him at the Long Course Nationals in Elizabethtown, KY. I remember David winning events in the 100 Fly at :58.04, the 100 Free at :52.47 and the 100 Breast at 1:05.65 for a World Record. He also set a World Record in the 200 IM at 2:09.69 and that is still to this day a USMS Record. He was first in the World Top Ten in all those events except the 100 Free and he was behind Rowdy Gaines time of :51.50 in 1991. The next year he set a World Record in the 100 Back just missing breaking a minute at 1:00.19, so for a time he had World Records in the 100 Back, 100 Breast, and 200 IM. The 100 Breast World Record lasted for 7 years and I remember Seth Van Neederden breaking it by .01 at 1:05.64 at the 1998 USMS Long Course Nationals in his home pool at the ISHOF in Fort Lauderdale.

knelson
July 17th, 2007, 04:40 PM
I wonder how many USMS swimmers can claim the same thing only in short course yards competition? I bet not all that many. Mr. Commings is one for sure, and it fact did it at short course Nats this year. Lundberg achieved the feat in one meet, too (1998 SC Nats). There are certainly a few others who are or were capable, but I wonder how many have actually done it?

Jeff Commings
July 17th, 2007, 05:02 PM
Interesting question, Kirk.

I'm sure there are a few people under the age of 30 that can do it (Erik Scalise, Gary Marshall). Among the "older" guys, I bet Roque Santos could do it.

chlorini
July 18th, 2007, 05:09 PM
Jeff, it's so cool that you and Brendan Hansen have the exact same time. That's all I really have to say. :notworthy:

quicksilver
July 18th, 2007, 05:22 PM
I have no idea what his backstroke looks like or if he actually likes doing it, but I don't care. Let's welcome Brendan to the exclusive club of breaststrokers who do backstroke.




Here you go...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxO8Go7FcmQ

(Not the same meet...but you can see how he swims it.)

Rob Copeland
July 18th, 2007, 05:51 PM
I wonder how many USMS swimmers can claim the same thing only in short course yards competition? This year Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen broke the USMS record in EVERY SCY event for Women 45-49, with the exception of the 500 free and 400 IM. And she broke the 500 Free record at nationals going out in her 1000, however due to a timing malfunction the time did not count. Iím not sure why she didnít get the 400 IM. Iím sure she will rectify this in LCM.

The Fortress
July 18th, 2007, 09:29 PM
Here you go...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxO8Go7FcmQ

(Not the same meet...but you can see how he swims it.)


Thanks for the youtube vid! Hansen is awesome! It is great to know, however, that even the most elite can jam their turns (#1) and slow down going into a turn.

Heather: I don't think Natalie likes to swim anything over a 100 in a big meet anymore.

Karlyn is amazing, Rob! She probably just didn't have time to get a 400 IM in.

knelson
July 18th, 2007, 11:36 PM
Hansen's start was really good. He must be taking lessons from his teammate Aaron Peirsol.

Yeah, there's absolutely no doubt Coughlin could be right there in the 200 IM. I think Fortress is right: she only swim the events she wants to swim these days. Slight correction, though, she will swim the 200 free, at least as part of the 4x200 relay.

NotVeryFast
July 19th, 2007, 03:20 AM
Iím not sure why she didnít get the 400 IM. Iím sure she will rectify this in LCM.
She already did get the LCM 400 IM WR earlier this year - I watched her do it at a meet here in the UK. This was the meet:
http://www.southeastswimming.org/masters/2007/longcourse/results.php?session=4

quicksilver
July 19th, 2007, 08:26 AM
Thanks for the youtube vid! Hansen is awesome! It is great to know, however, that even the most elite can jam their turns (#1) and slow down going into a turn.



Your welcome.

He went a 51.73. Not too shabby.

thewookiee
July 19th, 2007, 08:52 AM
Heather: I don't think Natalie likes to swim anything over a 100 in a big meet anymore.




Except go 1:56.4 leading off the 800 free relay at worlds. There was an interview with her awhile back, where is said she is starting to figure out and enjoy the 200 free. Depending on the schedule, I think the 200 free and 100 back overlap some at major meets(prelims-semis-finals type meet) so she probably wont give up the 100bk for the 200 free.

I think in the same interview, she said she found the 200 back to be boring, that is why she doesnt swim it anymore.

Frank Thompson
July 19th, 2007, 11:37 AM
This year Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen broke the USMS record in EVERY SCY event for Women 45-49, with the exception of the 500 free and 400 IM. And she broke the 500 Free record at nationals going out in her 1000, however due to a timing malfunction the time did not count. Iím not sure why she didnít get the 400 IM. Iím sure she will rectify this in LCM.

Rob:

Are you sure about this? I just received my USMS Swimmer magazine yesterday and read the article written by Jeff Commings. I see on page 19 in the display box that Caroline Kratti has all of the USMS Records in 45-49 age group for the 50, 100, and 200 Breast. In fact there is a picture on the page of Caroline Kratti celebrating this. As I saw that I thought about Karlyn having practically most of the records in the age group but not all of them. I do remember that back in 1997, that in the 35-39 age group that she had 1st place in the USMS Top Ten in all 53 events in the 3 courses and was the only Women All American for the 35-39 age group. In 1998, she was first in everthing except the breastrokes and Caroline Kratti and Patty Powis were the only other All Americans in that age group because they got first in breastroke events.

Allen Stark
July 19th, 2007, 01:57 PM
I beleve she broke the breaststroke records at an early season meet,and then Caroline broke them after that.

hrietz
July 19th, 2007, 02:00 PM
I beleve she broke the breaststroke records at an early season meet,and then Caroline broke them after that.

She broke the 50 and 100 breast records at Y Nationals and Caroline got them back at USMS Nationals about a month later.

Frank Thompson
July 19th, 2007, 02:53 PM
Allen, Heather:

You bring up an interesting question here? What is considered breaking a record? I have heard different interpretations of this in the last couple of years. 1. Is it the fastest time in the USMS Rule Book? 2. Is it the fastest time that is currently on record? 3. Or is it the fastest time to the date of the last record swim? I tend to believe its the fastest time to the date of the last swim. I think that is the way FINA and USA Swimming do it.

So in this case I would say yes to the 200 Breast and no to the 50 and 100 Breast. The reason I am saying this is because Caroline Kratti broke both the 50 and 100 Breast on 4-1-07 with times of :30.29 and 1:06.24. Those times were faster than Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen did on 4-15-07 of :31.27 and 1:09.87. But if you go by scenarios 1 and 2, then yes those are USMS Records.

The two cases that I can think about when two people broke a World Record in the same event and one did not get credit for it was when Michael Phelps and Eric Vendt broke the World Record in the 400 Meter IM at the 2002 USA Nationals in Fort Lauderdale. Phelps went a 4:11.09 and Vendt went a 4:11.27 and both swimmers broke the record by Tom Dolan at 4:11.76, however you don't see Vendt's name in any lists for getting credit for breaking the World Record.

Another example is when Phelps broke his first World Record in the 100 Meter Fly at the 2003 World Championships at :51.47 and in the heat before he swam, Andriy Serdinov swam a :51.76 to break the World Record by Michael Klim of :51.81 and you don't see his name in any lists for getting the World Record. However, you see Phelps listed as the World Record holder for that day and the next day he went faster at :51.10 but was beaten by Ian Crocker at :50.98 and he is not given credit for breaking the World Record. From these two examples, it looks like FINA for Swimming goes by the day of the record. That could be different for Masters Swimming for both USMS and FINA.

See the examples of this and click to the 45-49 age group to view the Womens SCY USMS Records http://www.usms.org/comp/records.php

knelson
July 19th, 2007, 03:59 PM
I think in the case of Serdinov he should have been credited with having the World Record, albeit briefly. If two swimmers in the same heat break the existing world record it only makes sense to give credit to the winner. He or she, after all, did touch the wall first, hence the other person can never lay claim to having the record for any length of time.

Paul Smith
July 19th, 2007, 05:08 PM
Heather: I don't think Natalie likes to swim anything over a 100 in a big meet anymore.

Hey Fort.....hope you've been well?!

Natalie I believe holds the AR in the 200 free....and her 4:10 in the 400m at that meet shows she's certainly in shape to make a run at the 200IM.....I read a quote from her saying the 200 back is the one race she never wants to swim again.

knelson
July 19th, 2007, 06:00 PM
I read a quote from her saying the 200 back is the one race she never wants to swim again.

That was the one race she ever lost at NCAAs. Her senior year (2004) she fell apart in the last 50 and got beat by both Margaret Hoelzer and Kirsty Coventry. I can see why she'd never want to swim it again!

Jeff Commings
July 19th, 2007, 07:16 PM
Your welcome.

He went a 51.73. Not too shabby.

I went 51.63 at nationals. I won! And without all that silly dolphin kicking And I hit all my turns.

:thhbbb:

Allen Stark
July 19th, 2007, 07:33 PM
If you break the record that is the current posted record USMS will give you credit and send you a certificate even if someone else went faster.The posted record lasts a year. Faster swims are shown in italics at the records site.

Frank Thompson
July 19th, 2007, 08:12 PM
Allen:

It appears that scenario 1 is what determines if you break a USMS Record. I believe these are the season ending records that are published in the USMS Rule Book. So in this case everyone gets a record. I noticed that in the 200 IM in that age group, 4 women will get credit for breaking the record. So it could happen that you could get 5th at USMS Nationals and still be a USMS National Record holder. I know USA Swimming and FINA Swimming do not figure records this way. I wonder if FINA Masters figures records this way. I know FINA posts records every 6 months but do they give credit for Records swims in between those time periods.

Now for Relays, I don't think USMS does this. In 1995, I was part of a Relay that broke the USMS National Record but some other team went faster during the season and they got the record which was expected. We were the only other Relay team to go faster that the published record but were 2nd in the Top Ten. I don't think the Relays could get certificates for breaking the published record back then.

The Fortress
July 19th, 2007, 09:07 PM
Hey Fort.....hope you've been well?!

Natalie I believe holds the AR in the 200 free....and her 4:10 in the 400m at that meet shows she's certainly in shape to make a run at the 200IM.....I read a quote from her saying the 200 back is the one race she never wants to swim again.

My recollection is that she has been anti-200 back for years -- probably since college as Kirk said. It is a blastedly boring event, so I can see why. (Sorry, Frank!)

I know she swims the 200 free in the 800 relay. But at big meets these days, she just sprints. Like me. I'm good, BTW, Paul. A bit harried with busy kidlets, but good. Even did some 100 flys in practice the other day so people wouldn't continually deride me. :rofl:

Jeff:

Just think how much faster you'd be if you actually learned the SDK! Break out of the caveman mentality. Buy a bodysuit and MF. :rofl: The back-breast combo still amazes me though. From my own observations, it still seems relatively rare.

quicksilver
July 19th, 2007, 09:13 PM
I went 51.63 at nationals....And without all that silly dolphin kicking...


Jeff,

That's outstanding (even more so coming from a breaststroker) ...and with no SDK's!

Maybe you're hiding a 50 point or better up your sleeve? ...ever tried doing them?

Walt Reid
July 19th, 2007, 09:14 PM
On Nov 1 of each year we "close" the books on USMS records and publish in the USMS Rule Book and on the Web, the "current" record holders. Then these records become the ones to beat for the next year until Nov 1. Everyone that beats these published records gets added to the USMS Records Web Site with name and time in italics and they get a certificate because they "broke" the published record. Then on Nov 1 we take the fastest swim as the new Rule Book record and start over again. The same is true for Relays.

So in a meet the first and second place finishers could qualify as a "record breaker" and with proper documentation both will get a certificate and be added to the Web page. Given the fact that at any point in time we really do not know what the "current" record is because records can be broken at any sanctioned or recognized meet this seemed to be a fair solution to this problem. Remember we approve around 200-300 records each year.

FINA Masters World Records are handled the same as USMS except their are two closing dates (May 1 and Nov 1 ) for publishing the records. Again anyone that breaks the published record gets a certificate from FINA.

Not sure this explanation really belongs here but I saw several references to how records are handled and I hope this helps.

BillS
July 20th, 2007, 12:42 PM
Break out of the caveman mentality.

Wasn't it Mr. Commings who was lamenting his inability to find a new yellow Sony Sports Walkman in which to play his extensive collection of cassette tapes at meets?