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david.margrave
July 21st, 2007, 05:58 PM
I like using the treadmill at the health club, where the incline varies to maintain a target heart rate. Walking at a brisk pace on an incline can get your heart rate going just fine, and is easier on my knees at least.

Usually I follow the 'cardio' heart rate that the machine comes up with based on your age, and go for 20 or 30 minutes. This is the normal aerobic workout that all the experts say everyone is supposed to do a few times a week.

If I wanted to concentrate on an event like the 500 free, which lasts 5-6 minutes (hopefully closer to 5 if I can repeat my times from 20 years ago), should I alternate the normal cardio workout setting a higher heart rate (still below max for my age of course) and go for 5 minutes?

I've been checking my heart rate for 6 seconds on some swimming sets, and although this method is not as accurate, on sets like 100s or 200s my heart rate is well above the standard 80% of 220 minus age.

inklaire
July 21st, 2007, 06:51 PM
I don't think 220 - age is very meaningful for everyone. I've run 5k at a heart rate very close to the max for me dictated by that standard, and felt fairly comfortable doing it. I've exceeded the standard on inclines by 11 bpm. :dunno: OTOH, I don't come anywhere near it when swimming, even if I finish a set gasping.

FindingMyInnerFish
July 23rd, 2007, 07:55 AM
From what I've heard, the heart rate doesn't go up as high swimming as running. No expert on this, though. I used to wear a heart monitor for running, but I'd get read-outs that seemed totally unrealistic, sometimes jogging at a comfortable pace and seeing 180--and that's odd b/c there was no "heart pounding" sensation that I would associate w/ that kind of heart rate. Other times just to test it, I'd wear it for other activities and it would read way too low, such as 30 when I was up and about. Yes, my heart rate is in the 30s on awakening, but not when at my desk with coffee. Now I just go by feel.

That Guy
July 28th, 2007, 02:25 PM
http://www.drmirkin.com/public/ezine071507.html

"For more than forty years, fitness instructors have based exercise prescriptions on the maximum heart rate formula of 220 minus your age. A study from Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan shows that this formula may be wrong (Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, May 2007). The researchers found that the original formula overestimated the maximum heart rate for younger exercisers and underestimated the maximum rate for older ones. The new formula they recommend is 206.9 - (age x .67) = maximum heart rate."

geochuck
July 28th, 2007, 02:46 PM
That guy you can get all kinds of heart rates. Send me your resting heart rate, age and I will give you your swimming heart rates. From my swim heart rate program. geochuck@hotmail.com

All the work you do in the gym will not give you great results you do have to swim.

That Guy
July 28th, 2007, 03:42 PM
I didn't say that I use it, I was just pointing out that the old formula has been updated. I only have two advantages in the sport of swimming. One of them is the ability to maintain a higher pulse rate than most other people. When I was 15, I practiced with a faster group because I could make their intervals, even though I was the worst swimmer there, technique-wise. The coach would assign sets by distances, intervals, and target heart rates. Day after day, I would do fine with the first two but be way off on the heart rate. For a sprint crawl set, the target would be 180, for example, but I might have been at 210 or more at the end of the set, taking 25 or more strokes per 25 yards. During that season, I once measured my pulse at 240. I should mention that I don't/can't go that hard anymore; I focus on efficiency now. Yesterday I swam a warmup 300 yard free at 13 strokes per length, 5 SDK's off each wall. But I keep "caveman mode" in my back pocket for close races...

david.margrave
July 28th, 2007, 06:10 PM
What I'm wondering is whether in an event like the 500 free you are going to be above the standard 80% of max HR that they recommend for cardio workounts. I think the answer if you push yourself hard is that you will exceed 80% of the max for a mid-distance event, so then the question becomes should you train for that specifically, or just set the treadmill to maintain 80% of max by varying the incline and plod along for 20-30 minutes.

geochuck
July 28th, 2007, 06:59 PM
If you are racing a 500, the heart rate is not even monitored as far as I am concerned.

A 500 is now a swim to the finish, pace yourself to be able to finish. Race enough of these you will know how hard you have to swim. Main thing for us older guys is not to have a heart attack.

inklaire
July 28th, 2007, 07:41 PM
The researchers found that the original formula overestimated the maximum heart rate for younger exercisers and underestimated the maximum rate for older ones. The new formula they recommend is 206.9 - (age x .67) = maximum heart rate."

In my case, both formulas are equal to one another, and both are off by at least 10 bpm. What's the matter with just testing one's maximum heart rate empirically? Does it just not work accurately either?

That Guy
July 28th, 2007, 10:59 PM
I learned to swim the 500 free when I was still a caveman, when I had to start easy if I wanted to split the race decently and keep the piano off my back later in the event. Now I still start the race with the same "easy" perceived effort level, and then switch to race mode at the 250 mark. So I typically even-split or negative-split the race, which I very rarely did as a caveman. Negative splitting is not optimal, but it is fun...

As for my pulse, for the first 250 I'd guess it's below what the formula says is my maximum. And for the second 250, I have no doubt that I exceed that max handily.

david.margrave
August 14th, 2007, 02:30 AM
I'm still going at the treadmills 3x week on days I don't swim. They got some new treadmills at the gym that have a fitness test program which maintains a constant speed and increases the incline progressively while monitoring your heart rate, then computes a score. they call this 'VO2 sub max'. I've gotten scores that bounce around a bit and I suspect this is not a highly accurate test, just a general guide. There is also a 'firefighter's fitness test' which sounds daunting and which I haven't attempted yet.

I found one reference on-line (which I don't have handy) that said that training at above 80% of your max heart rate is a point of diminishing return. Also, in my case, age 36, 220-age and the alternate formula 215-(age*.7) don't give very different values.

geochuck
August 14th, 2007, 04:22 AM
These would be training HRs I am guessing your resting HR.
Racing HR is up to you. Now don't blow a valve or a gasket.

Age 36 Resting HR 60
Aerobic min 134.4
Aerobic max 159.2
Aenerobic threshold 159.2
Aenerobic max 171.6
Max Vo2 min 171.6
Max Vo2 max 177.8
Lac tollerance 179.

david.margrave
August 14th, 2007, 12:26 PM
These would be training HRs I am guessing your resting HR.
Racing HR is up to you. Now don't blow a valve or a gasket.

Age 36 Resting HR 60
Aerobic min 134.4
Aerobic max 159.2
Aenerobic threshold 159.2
Aenerobic max 171.6
Max Vo2 min 171.6
Max Vo2 max 177.8
Lac tollerance 179.


your guess of my resting HR was right on, thanks!

what would your program spit out for training sets if my goal is a 5:00 500yd. free?