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SwimStud
July 25th, 2007, 09:49 AM
On my right side, which is how I learnt as a kid, I tend to find that I don't balance in the water as well as when I breathe on the left (the side I forced to learn bilaterally in recent months).

Feels like my lead arm (left) goes down (I think that's a reflex in trying to push my head up), and I've worked on holding the stretch.
That didn't fix it. Still feels like I begind to sag in the water.

I have now been tinkering with pulling back further on with the right arm (because I started to cross compare) to getting a better roll and glide; this seems to be working a bit.

Does that make sense? Is cutting the pull short (in slower paced swims) likely to cause a sagging feeling?

Undoubtedly I have a bad habit well ingrained...and without a coach to look at my stroke it's a bit of "cat and mouse" for me to analyse.
I have books with drills etc but I want to try and ID the issue if I can.

Sprints are not such an issue...but there are less breaths and faster turnovers.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Rich

m2tall2
July 25th, 2007, 09:58 AM
I am so confused.

I need stick figure swimstud diagrams!

While I can't help with what's wrong, I've found just by doing balance drills I naturally get my sides back together. A good example is catch up drill concentrating on the roll.

geochuck
July 25th, 2007, 10:48 AM
Stud! Stud! Stud!

Breathing, is an easy fix, easy entry, balanced pull from the catch and finish. Make no splash when you recover and enter. The only stick needed is to stick at it. Have you seen my new video on my home page a very relaxed swim no splash.

SwimStud
July 25th, 2007, 10:59 AM
Stud! Stud! Stud!

Breathing, is an easy fix, easy entry, balanced pull from the catch and finish. Make no splash when you recover and enter. The only stick needed is to stick at it. Have you seen my new video on my home page a very relaxed swim no splash.

It's just the dofference between right and left is confusing. I think I was cutting the pull short with my right so I wasn't rotating over. I'll check the video. My leftside breath feels great although I cannot judge what it looks like.

scyfreestyler
July 25th, 2007, 11:47 AM
Bilateral breathing is overrated.

SwimStud
July 25th, 2007, 12:13 PM
Bilateral breathing is overrated.
..ok then, I'm a pefectionist that wants the ability to do everything as symetrically as possible...

smontanaro
July 25th, 2007, 12:16 PM
Bilateral breathing is overrated.

I've been working a lot on my roll and arm extension lately. I think the main advantage of bilateral breathing is balance. If you can extend your arm and roll well enough, I'm beginning to doubt that taking a breath to your "weak" side is all that useful. If breathing on that side helps you roll and extend better though, then it's a benefit.

Skip Montanaro

geochuck
July 25th, 2007, 12:18 PM
Bilateral breathing is overrated.
Over rated but very necessary for balance. Not to be done other than a few times for balance.

SwimStud
July 25th, 2007, 12:19 PM
Over rated but very necessary for balance. Not to be done other than a few times for balance.

Also if my right side is my default and I am not doing it efficiently I want to fix it...

scyfreestyler
July 25th, 2007, 12:37 PM
..ok then, I'm a pefectionist that wants the ability to do everything as symetrically as possible...

Hey, knock yourself out. It certainly won't do you any harm.

SwimStud
July 25th, 2007, 12:42 PM
Hey, knock yourself out. It certainly won't do you any harm.

hehehe but you didn't help my problem...bah! ;)

scyfreestyler
July 25th, 2007, 12:45 PM
I won't be of much help...I'm not a bilateral breather.

chlorini
July 25th, 2007, 01:26 PM
SwimStud,

To answer your question, yes, cutting your right arm pull short could very well be the cause. If your arm exits early and begins to recover, it is going to start pulling you out of your rotated position and back to the center. If you are still trying to breath when this happens, you will feel the urge to press down with your bottom arm to lift your head to breathe. If you lengthen the right arm stroke, you'll have more time to breathe so that when you do recover your arm, your head will be ready to move back in line with your body. You may also want to check to see if you are exhaling underwater before turning your head to take a breath. If you aren't, that may be causing you to leave your head turned too long as well. Hope this helps!

Chlorini

smontanaro
July 25th, 2007, 01:41 PM
... cutting your right arm pull short could very well be the cause.....

Wow! That's me to a tee! Thanks Chlorini. If we ever meet I owe you a beer (or a coke or a lemon grass smoothie or something).

Skip Montanaro

SwimStud
July 25th, 2007, 01:54 PM
SwimStud,

To answer your question, yes, cutting your right arm pull short could very well be the cause. If your arm exits early and begins to recover, it is going to start pulling you out of your rotated position and back to the center. If you are still trying to breath when this happens, you will feel the urge to press down with your bottom arm to lift your head to breathe. If you lengthen the right arm stroke, you'll have more time to breathe so that when you do recover your arm, your head will be ready to move back in line with your body. You may also want to check to see if you are exhaling underwater before turning your head to take a breath. If you aren't, that may be causing you to leave your head turned too long as well. Hope this helps!

Chlorini

Thanks C ! I was trying to figure it out it's been baffling me as it's my natural side...Then I tried just comparing how my left arm stroked and realised I was pulling right back to the hip, and feeling a nice smoothe "breach" before rolling back. The other side felt very choppy and quick a feeling of rushing to breathe. Then I felt my arm not pulling back so far. It seemed to help when I thought about it. Now to work on that in drills and ingraine it! Again, sprints haven't been an issue, which is probably what I learnt as a kid--go as fast as you can--but anything more focused on technique or distance I struggled to keep a nice balance.

I'm a tad baffled about the breathing thing--probably my misreading it. I normally finish the exhale before breaking the surface with my mouth. I try to keep it rhythmic. Breathe, exhale, 2, 3, Breathe exhale 2, 3. I think that part is working for me...although it could be wrong--I guess i'll self analyse a bit there too on my next swim!

imspoiled
July 25th, 2007, 02:57 PM
Stud-

Have you tried doing one-arm drills? Try them--do one set where you breathe to the stroking side (keep non-stroking arm extended in front), and one set where you breathe to the non-stroking side. The non-stroking side breathing is tough (you will need to keep the non-stroking arm at your side instead of straight out--changes the body balance), but it helps to exagerate the roll. Focus on the roll and keeping the head in line with the spine--thus, rolling from the core, not just turning head.

Do the set on a rest interval and focus on an even stroke count on each side. Counting strokes should tell you if you are shortening one, since you will take more strokes on that side.

Dana

3strokes
July 25th, 2007, 03:00 PM
I'm a tad baffled about the breathing thing--probably my misreading it. I normally finish the exhale before breaking the surface with my mouth. I try to keep it rhythmic. Breathe, exhale, 2, 3, Breathe exhale 2, 3. I think that part is working for me...although it could be wrong--I guess i'll self analyse a bit there too on my next swim!

My :2cents: worth from my own past.
45 years ago I couldn't swim more than a 50 (LCM) at one go. I thought I breathed OK but that I just did not have any stamina, until one day, the coach asked me to swim next to and with a certain guy (the absolutely slowest swimmer on the club team). As I tried to keep pace with him, I was almost bobbing up and down rather than moving forward. At that pace I found that I was forced to exhale with my face submerged. And I suddenly discovered two things:
a) I had NOT been exhaling underwater as I thought. I was exhaling then trying to gulp in as much as possible when my face turned into the air and,
b) by making myself exhale all the (bad) air (CO2) while my face was submerged, I didn't even have to INhale when I turned my face. By creating a quasi-vacuum (in my lungs), by just opening my mouth, the air rushed in. That day I swam, I think, some 4000 m non-stop, I was so elated. That season I started racing 100m, 200, 400m and 1500m (where before I used to die in a 100m). We didn't have 50m events back then in the very early 60's.

My lungs are not that flexible now. After 45+ years of smoking I still have to make a conscious effort to try to inhale fully. But a long and full exhalation underwater, helps the intake of air.

Good luck.

okoban
July 25th, 2007, 03:02 PM
'Side glide balance', 'side glide balance breathing' and 'side glide freestyle' drills (in Emmett Hines's book) helped me out a lot to improve my weak side. I used to feel the same as you feel before mastering on these drills. Now I am confident in both sides. I hope it works (if you did not try yet) for you too.

SwimStud
July 25th, 2007, 03:15 PM
'Side glide balance', 'side glide balance breathing' and 'side glide freestyle' drills (in Emmett Hines's book) helped me out a lot to improve my weak side. I used to feel the same as you feel before mastering on these drills. Now I am confident in both sides. I hope it works (if you did not try yet) for you too.

It's funny OKO my better side is the one with the problem. I thinkit's because I've never been a distance swimmer...it only happens at a slower pace...but at least I know it's something going off course there.
I still bang out 2000y/m straight swims for OW practice but I want to obviously save effort and time by getting a nice smooth stroke.

Thanks all for tips.

chlorini
July 25th, 2007, 04:06 PM
Hi again, Stud! It sounds like the breathing issue may not be at work for you, so don't stress. It was just a thought!

Skip, I'm happy to have potentially helped, and I'll keep an eye out for you at future meets:drink:!

Mia Kopela
July 25th, 2007, 08:14 PM
..ok then, I'm a pefectionist that wants the ability to do everything as symetrically as possible...
Have you considered that your neck muscles might be more flexible on one side compared to the other? When turning to breathe on the less flexible side, you have to roll more and the stroke goes out of whack.

SwimStud
July 25th, 2007, 08:45 PM
Have you considered that your neck muscles might be more flexible on one side compared to the other? When turning to breathe on the less flexible side, you have to roll more and the stroke goes out of whack.

Yes, but it seemed to fix when I stroked back further...I was trying to guage whether the symptom and the remedy I discovered made sense to others. I have noone to look at my stroke and pin point it. Incidentally my range of motion is more restricted on the better side