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knelson
August 10th, 2007, 12:06 PM
Masters swimmer Erik Hochstein posted an interesting question over on the Timed Fianls site: http://www.timedfinals.com/09082007/is-4791-possible-with-just-20k-per-week-training/

Basically, Stefan Nystrand swam the 2nd fastest 100 m free in history last week in Paris (47.91). Stefan says he trains 20K max per week in the pool with only two days per work of dryland. He swims either all out or easy, nothing in between.

So what do you think? Is this possible? Are swimmers and coaches too hung up on putting in yardage? Is this "less is more" philosophy something we'll see more of? It is certainly appealing to Masters swimmers who usually have a limited amount of time to train.

Shaman
August 10th, 2007, 12:36 PM
Are swimmers and coaches too hung up on putting in yardage?

Yes.

FlyQueen
August 10th, 2007, 12:47 PM
There are so many variables in there ... first of all I want to know how much yardage all of those guys pounded out as a kid to get where they are. I don't think you can become a top swimmer with that little yardage - maintaing even making gains is different. I think the bottom line is you need to find what works for you. A guy like Erik Vendt isn't going to be able to do 3K a workout and 20K a week and swim like he does, nor Phelps. Probably stroke guys and 200 and up guys (and gals) couldn't get away with it either.

I like the idea of smart swimming and plenty of people are doing this with great results - Coughlin, Lezak, Hall, Race Club in general, Nystrand, Torres, etc. Many are still getting a good amount 5-7K a workout in but they are swimming smarter - really focusing on technique and on speed. There's a balance somewhere in there. Most of those guys (except Nystrand) seem to have a really tough dry land training program too though. I wonder if Nystrand is being completely truthful.

Slowswim
August 10th, 2007, 12:53 PM
Bad server....BAD!

Shaman
August 10th, 2007, 12:56 PM
So for someone like me who is new to swimming and is hoping to someday swim in a meet, how many yards is appropiate for a 45 Y/O Male?

I'm not an expert by any means but you should probably get 120,000 yards in a week at bare minimum. :thhbbb:

Actually it would depend on what you want out of yourself as a swimmer.

Slowswim
August 10th, 2007, 12:59 PM
So for me, a 45 Y/O male, who is new to swimming, and hopes to one day race in a meet; how many yards is enough so I won't :drown: or :blush: myself?
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Jeff Commings
August 10th, 2007, 01:09 PM
I like the idea of smart swimming and plenty of people are doing this with great results - Coughlin, Lezak, Hall, Race Club in general, Nystrand, Torres, etc.

This is the essence of fast swimming.

All that yardage will mean nothing if you don't take the time to work on technique.

JennyS
August 10th, 2007, 01:10 PM
So for someone like me who is new to swimming and is hoping to someday swim in a meet, how many yards is appropiate for a 45 Y/O Male?

It depends on how fast or slow you are. Generally, the faster you are, the faster your intervals will be, and therefore you will be doing more yards per workout. Somewhere around 2,000 to 3,000 yards per hour of workout seems like a good goal to get a beginner ready for a meet. However, even if you're not at that yardage yet, you can still swim in a meet!

Shaman
August 10th, 2007, 01:11 PM
How many workouts a week?

Depending on how much of a beginner you are I would shoot for between 2000-3700 yards of swimming where you're always aware of your technique. Swimming too hard and killing yourself leads most people to sloppy technique because they're tired. I think with that amount of yardage you could do a 200 or 500 just fine. If you really just want swim the 50 and 100 you could probably do even less. Keep in mind I'm no expert. This is just my opinion; but I do think you could swim fairly well with that relatively small amount of yardage.

knelson
August 10th, 2007, 01:12 PM
This is the essence of fast swimming.

All that yardage will mean nothing if you don't take the time to work on technique.

I agree. I don't think I've ever seen Nystrand swim. I have to think--like Torres--his technique is excellent.

Slowswim
August 10th, 2007, 01:12 PM
I would assume just something Free at a local meet (Atlanta). I guess the competition here is strong. I'd love to go higher but I'm a realist. I've only been swimming for almost 2 years now, have a job, and a family.

I enjoy Back and Breast (never tried Fly, but would love someone to teach me). What I really need is a coach. I had one before I moved. There are none in the area that I can get to.

fanstone
August 10th, 2007, 01:55 PM
Bill (in Georgia), I am a bad boy, with infrequent training with the team and the coach. Our schedule is three times a week, one hour, where we average about 2,000 meters. I try and get in an extra two swims on my own, where basically I will swim freestyle and goof around for an hour or so. I try to do at least 1,500 meters on my own. I am 56 years old, with a short swimming history (B-team, in a Chattanooga prep-school) in 1967-68, during two seasons. I got back into swimming two years ago. I have done all distances in free, up to 800, but suffer with anything above 100. I also die when doing a 100 i.m. (I did 200 i.m. in high school). This is because I am not in shape, which might be a "normal" condition for me, due to my irregularity at training. But, the speed for a 50 free is always there, irrespective of training. What I am saying is that going to meets is fun and you shouldn't worry about your times, there are always people faster and slower than you. I ran three marathons using the one minute walk every mile and trained without a coach, with low mileage, about 40 to 50 miles per week. But I trained just to finish and did finish, the MCM twice and the New York Marathon once. It is a question of priorities and tive available. I wish I could have three hours every day of free time to swim or do other sports...billy fanstone

rtodd
August 10th, 2007, 09:27 PM
Slowswim,

I am in the same situation. Swimming two years, kids, job..etc.

I am able to swim 2000 yards a day, 5 days a week, sometimes 6. Sometimes the workouts go to 3000, but not often. All strokes but fly due to lower back problems. I am 42 and get quite burnt from this volume. I am at my max right now.

I would use this as a goal yardage. I am continuing to get faster and have not leveled out yet in my times, so I don't see a need to increase over 12-15,000 a week.

I am a sprinter by nature so I try to include LT sets and anaerobic sets.

These yards are all quality.

quicksilver
August 11th, 2007, 08:38 AM
There's no way to say that one person's formula can work well for someone else.
Anyone can put in mega yards with no guarantee of improvement based solely on how much time they spend in the pool.

Swimming is unique in that stroke mechanics has everything to do with how fast one will travel through the water.

geochuck
August 11th, 2007, 11:40 AM
My goal to get ready for 2008 is 3500m a day 6 days a week. It will be combinations of of Max V02, aerobic and aenerobic swimming, only swimming crawl and fly no drills. I may cheat on the fly and do one arm fly so I can finish my workouts (drill???). That is going to be a huge jump for me, as I like the 1000m a day.

I cannot start today but tomorrow I can.

knelson
August 11th, 2007, 06:35 PM
Sounds like a good plan, George. We'll be expecting big things from you next year. Good luck!

islandsox
August 11th, 2007, 08:18 PM
Well, no one has mentioned that it may have to do with what event a person is going to swim. A 50 M free doesn't need mega yardage, nor does a mile swim, but a person who may be going for a distance swim, really distance, 20K per week is rather introductory.

But quicksilver made the most sense to me. Oh, I'm only swimming about 28 miles a week now. And it is not garbage yards, trust me. Lots of focus on speed sets within those miles, eye on technique/body position/hand-arm entry, etc. But I suppose I am in the minority here.

Slowswim
August 13th, 2007, 01:22 PM
28 MILES!!!:bolt:Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:whitefl ag:

Allen Stark
August 13th, 2007, 04:09 PM
I swim 1800-2400 yd 4 times per week and lift weights and stationary bike twice a week.All my swimming is either warmup,cool down or race pace(except from the end of SCM season until 15 weeks before a taper meet when I do long slow stuff and lots of drills.) I never take time off from working out unless I am sick.I think it is easier to stay in shape than get in shape.I also think sustainability is an important concept in workout planning and that workouts need to be fun and/or challenging,if you don't look forward to workout something needs to be changed.

knelson
August 13th, 2007, 04:33 PM
I swim 1800-2400 yd 4 times per week

I'm always amazed when I hear people train like this and can still swim fast. I try to swim 20K per week and I feel like that's barely enough.

scyfreestyler
August 13th, 2007, 05:14 PM
I'm always amazed when I hear people train like this and can still swim fast. I try to swim 20K per week and I feel like that's barely enough.


The key to Allen's training is that the majority of it is done at race pace.