PDA

View Full Version : Two-beat crossover kick...bad?



pedergraham
August 14th, 2007, 04:05 PM
I have done a two-beat crossover kick for years and am a distance swimmer. Is this a bad thing to do? Should I be trying to move up to a faster kick?

Shaman
August 14th, 2007, 04:09 PM
2 beat kick works for Laure Manaudou.

geochuck
August 14th, 2007, 04:38 PM
2 beat kicking for distance swimming has been around a long time. George Breen who swam for Councillman used a 2 beat kick in the 1956 Olympic 1500 meters.

I just cannot do it myself.

TheGoodSmith
August 14th, 2007, 05:18 PM
Two beat cross over kick is great if your stuck in a time warp in 1978.

Take a look at Erik Vendt. He ain't doing a lazy 2 beat cross over.

Actually, the whole damn sport has changed to more lower body emphasis the last decade or so.

I'll tell you what I tell my 12 year old son.

USE YOUR LEGS !


John Smith

scyfreestyler
August 14th, 2007, 05:21 PM
I think Vendt employs a 6 beat from start to finish in a 1500M Free.

cowsvils
August 14th, 2007, 06:04 PM
Two beat cross over kick is great if your stuck in a time warp in 1978.

Take a look at Erik Vendt. He ain't doing a lazy 2 beat cross over.

Actually, the whole damn sport has changed to more lower body emphasis the last decade or so.

I'll tell you what I tell my 12 year old son.

USE YOUR LEGS !


John Smith

Laure Manadou disagrees with you about the 2-beat kick being a problem

geochuck
August 14th, 2007, 07:37 PM
Good Smith what they did in 1978 was the stepping stone to what we do today. There are great 2 beat kickers today as mentioned by the previous poster. There are also great swimmers who use 4 beat, 6 beat and yes even 8 beat kickers.

cowsvils
August 14th, 2007, 08:14 PM
Piggy-backing on what George said, it is a very individual thing. You can be successful with any type of kick, it is all a matter of adjusting it to how you swim. It wouldn't be good to impose a 2 beat kick on Erik Vendt when he is so successful with a 6-beat. It would be just as bad to do the opposite to Laure, find what works for you, and then work with that.

Shaman
August 14th, 2007, 10:15 PM
...yes even 8 beat kickers.

Who?

geochuck
August 14th, 2007, 11:04 PM
I have a video of Thorpe doing an 8 beat kick in a relay swim.

Shaman
August 14th, 2007, 11:30 PM
Not at Sydney against Gary Hall Jr. in the 4x100 is it?

geochuck
August 15th, 2007, 01:03 AM
You mean this race of course http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQQt0eTknxY&mode=related&search
I kind of like this slow motion one easier to count. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjbQp5fjBO0&mode=related&search=

Shaman
August 15th, 2007, 12:21 PM
Yep, that's the race I went to check. Jeez can you imagine trying to swim directly behind him in practice? Like swimming through a hurricane.

geochuck
August 15th, 2007, 01:54 PM
Some of the videos of Thorpe I have counted mostly 6 beat kick and then he ups it to 8 beats then takes it back to 6 beats. It seems to me when he is changing gear he ups the kick to an 8 beats.

I have watched him on Dartswim dead slow.

david.margrave
August 16th, 2007, 12:12 AM
I have done a two-beat crossover kick for years and am a distance swimmer. Is this a bad thing to do? Should I be trying to move up to a faster kick?

two beat works for me, i use it for all freestyle races, 50 - 1650. I've tried but I always get out of rhythm when attempting a 6-beat kick, and I'm not keen on 4 because I want my arms and legs to be opposite at the beginning of the stroke for balance (enter with left, first kick with right, etc). Maybe with practice I'll get it right, and I want to try, because I've considered adopting it for sprints.

ande
August 16th, 2007, 09:34 AM
Rowdy Gaines had a cross over kick. Probably not a bad thing for distance

I have done a two-beat crossover kick for years and am a distance swimmer. Is this a bad thing to do? Should I be trying to move up to a faster kick?

geochuck
August 16th, 2007, 11:31 AM
Just picked up Alex Bauman's book printed in 1988. Have times and strokes changed from when he wrote this book.

Tree
August 16th, 2007, 10:00 PM
Really a 8 beat kick?

I thought it was a 6 beat kick.

I kind of like this slow motion one easier to count. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjbQp5fjBO0&mode=related&search=

spudfin
August 17th, 2007, 08:41 AM
I have a newbie question. What does "crossover" mean? I currently have a no kick all pull stroke. Gotta do something different this winter.
Thanks
Spudfin

fastjack
August 17th, 2007, 11:14 AM
Spudfin here is a good resource to help your swimmind. Even though it is a tria guide http://www.triathlonplace.com/flash/swimfreevideogallery.html If you go down the list you will find the 2 beat kick.

Shaman
August 17th, 2007, 12:22 PM
I have a newbie question. What does "crossover" mean? I currently have a no kick all pull stroke. Gotta do something different this winter.
Thanks
Spudfin

Crossover means your feet/legs literally cross over each others at some point in your kick. It's just something some people do naturally. I don't understand it but it may be something to do with their balance when breathing.

craiglll@yahoo.com
August 17th, 2007, 05:14 PM
A guy who swims next to me does some sort of a 4 1/2 crossover kick. It is really weird. There are videos of Grant Hacket doing a kick where he actually stops kicking altogether at one point inhis stroke. I've always done a six beat kick with mile or 1500. I must state though that I'm not trememdously fast.

I was always told that cross over kicking tends to be done by larger framed guys naturally. Has anyone else ever heard this?

Shaman
August 17th, 2007, 05:41 PM
You were talking about a point where Grant stops kicking?

I see it in this video around 1:20

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cA5ZLWgvYrE

Dobbie
August 20th, 2007, 10:19 AM
Really a 8 beat kick?

I thought it was a 6 beat kick.

I also count 6 ...on the slow motion Thorpe video.

marksman
August 20th, 2007, 11:46 AM
A guy who swims next to me does some sort of a 4 1/2 crossover kick. It is really weird. There are videos of Grant Hacket doing a kick where he actually stops kicking altogether at one point inhis stroke.

i think he does a 3-beat on one side, 1-beat on the other at times, if he's breathing every stroke.

geochuck
August 20th, 2007, 12:24 PM
That slow motion is a six beat, When I find the eight beat sequence I will post it. I have a little more than 500 videos of Thorpe swimming and I did not label the one with the 8 kicks. It was just one stage of him kicking in a race when he was changing gear to sprint.

Thorpe is (was) a classic 6 beat kicker.

Shaman
August 20th, 2007, 12:50 PM
Thorpe is (was) a classic 6 beat kicker.

And still could be :sad:

islandsox
August 20th, 2007, 02:10 PM
I think I'll keep my 2-beat kick for my 20 mile swim next year. I've always been more of a front quadrant swimmer anyway, at least on freestyle.

Shaman
August 20th, 2007, 02:24 PM
I think I'll keep my 2-beat kick for my 20 mile swim next year. I've always been more of a front quadrant swimmer anyway, at least on freestyle.

I can hardly imagine doing anything but the bare minimum in a 20 mile swim.

craiglll@yahoo.com
August 27th, 2007, 08:48 AM
When you are thinking about how to kick, it seems that you should keep in mind why you are kicking. If it is to keep your balance and your legs up, then a lower count. If you are trying to produce "leg speed," then a higher count. When I was a teenager, many coaches used to say that the kick is only for balance. Then along came the East German women who produced real speed with their massive legs. It has always seemed to me that kick shoudl look & feel natural.