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swimmore
August 15th, 2007, 10:10 AM
Where are the time standards for Nationals in Austin?

matysekj
August 15th, 2007, 12:31 PM
The qualifying times for the Austin '08 SCY nationals will be approved at the annual convention at the end of September and will be available from our nationals page (www.usms.org/comp/nationals.php (http://www.usms.org/comp/nationals.php)) after that time. The method of arriving at the '08 LCM qualifying times will also be approved then, but the times themselves will not be available until after the final publication of the LCM top ten list for 2007.

jroddin
October 2nd, 2007, 06:59 PM
2008 SCY NQTs for Austin were approved at convention. They are attached.

Now get to the pool and start training for them!

Jeff Roddin
Championship Committee

swimmore
October 3rd, 2007, 01:32 PM
Looks like they are trying to keep people from going to nationals.

Blackbeard's Peg
October 3rd, 2007, 11:19 PM
Discouraging people from going to nationals? Not so, at least with qualifying times. Remember that ALL USMS-registered swimmers are able to participate in up to three events at a National Championship meet without having to "qualify" for them. You may swim up to 3 more additional Bonus events if you meet qualifying times for those events.
Now as for discouraging people from going because of location, that seems to be up for debate (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=9085) in the general discussion area.:dedhorse:
If you want to go to the meet, I don't think you're going to run into anyone who will discourage you from doing so. There are a lot of amazing people to meet, a lot of great races to watch and it is an overall good time!

pwolf66
October 4th, 2007, 11:32 PM
2008 SCY NQTs for Austin were approved at convention. They are attached.

Now get to the pool and start training for them!

Jeff Roddin
Championship Committee

WOOT, some nice times there. I should be below them by the time the meet rolls around. Definately some insipiration to be found there.

Paul

knelson
October 5th, 2007, 04:59 PM
And I'm pretty sure the formula for determining the NQTs is unchanged from past years. If the times have gotten faster, blame the other swimmers in your age group, cuz they're the ones responsible. :)

some_girl
October 5th, 2007, 09:40 PM
Actually, they changed the formulas for the 50s and 100s last year making them the average of the past three years' #10 + 15% instead of 10%. This year they are back to normal.

GordonD
October 29th, 2007, 02:31 PM
And boy did that extra 5% make a difference. Last year I qualified in 6 events. Those same times (same age group) only yield 1 qualifying time this year. I had already set a goal this season of dropping my 50s by 0.5 sec and my 100s by 1.0 sec. Even doing this will only get me 3 qualifying times. So I've got some real work to do.

I wonder if this will reduce the overall participation since people that have to fly to the meet will want to swim several events to make it worth the time and cost. For now I think I'll just use it as motivation to bump up to 4-5 workouts per week.

pwolf66
November 20th, 2007, 12:00 PM
Anyone know what is the cut off date for acheiving NQTs for SCY Nats? Or what is the entry deadline? My Zone SCY Champs are 3 weeks prior to SCY Nats and I hope to acheive several NQTs at that meet. If it's after the cut off then I need to find another SCY meet to try and hit those pesky NQTs.

Paul

matysekj
November 20th, 2007, 02:20 PM
Paul,

The nationals entry deadline is either 35 or 28 days prior to the start of the meet. This year's SCY was 35, LCM was 28. I'm not sure which will be used for next year's meets, but I'd guess at 28. In most years, the Colonies Zone meet is held after the nationals entry deadline. Time to start looking for another meet to use to achieve the NQTs.

pwolf66
November 20th, 2007, 02:33 PM
Bummer. Need to find a SCY meet in a fast pool somewhere. Most of them in my area are at pools that are older and not as fast.

Need to drop .2 in 50 Free, .6 in 50 Fly, 1.4 in 100 Free. Those are my targets. That means I would be able to enter those 3 and 3 more events, correct?

Paul

Blackbeard's Peg
November 20th, 2007, 08:15 PM
Tropical Splash is at a decent pool.
The Maryland LMSC's swim series meet at the Naval Academy should be a good chance to do it.

GordonD
November 21st, 2007, 02:34 PM
I've been wondering if times achieved at USA Swimming meets can count towards USMS NQT's. I have a USA Swimming membership so that I can attend some of the meets at great pools in my area. It's almost all teenagers but the competition is good. Does anyone know if these times can be used as USMS NQT's?


Paul: Your assumption is correct. You can swim an extra 3 events on top of the ones you have NQT's for.

Jeff Commings
November 21st, 2007, 03:18 PM
This is my understanding of the rule:

As long as you can make the qualifying time, there's really no need to try to actually make it before the meet. Therefore, if your best 50 free time is three-tenths off the qualifying time, you can actually enter nationals at the qualifying time, and hope you swim faster than the qualifying time at nationals in order for it to be officially recognized in results.

So, Paul, if you're so close to the NQT in those three events, my suggestion is to enter at the qualifying time, pick three bonus events and train your butt off until taper for Austin.

Masters, unlike USAS, does not have a proof-of-time system in place to make sure every swimmer has swum faster than the qualifying time. It's on the honor system.

So, I wouldn't try to taper for a meet a month from nationals to "make the cut," then not be able to get back into form for nationals and not make the time.

Of course, if the situation is different, I ask for people to tell me so.

pwolf66
November 21st, 2007, 08:52 PM
Jeff,

I understand what you are saying but that just seems wrong. My outlook is that QTs are QTs, you either make them before the meet that has them or you don't. But that's just me.

Paul

The Fortress
November 21st, 2007, 11:21 PM
Tropical Splash = hot water and very early
Naval Academy = not bad, best pool in MD series
USA Jan. Open = fast pool at PG County Complex often used for age group JOs

USA times count. (If you want the times to count for masters/TT purposes, you need to send hytek meet result link to LMSC registrar or possibly do some paperwork.) But even if you don't, you've swum the times and you should enter based on those times. You've got a date that you swam them that can be verified.

pwolf66
November 22nd, 2007, 02:19 PM
Yeah, I'm targeting the Jan Open for 50 and 100 Free. Unfortunately they don't have 50 Fly there for us 'sprinters' :-) AND 50 and 100 free are on different days :dunno: so it might just be 50 Free and I try to hit 100 Free and 50 Fly at another meet somewhere.

Paul

Xenadiva
January 15th, 2008, 01:44 PM
I'm confused....

I thought that even if you swam a non qualifying time at Nationals it is recorded in the results. FINA Master Worlds does not record your time if it is below the posted qualifying times. At least this was the case in 2006.

I also don't understand why everyone gets so hung up on the NQT's. I didn't qualify the first year I went down, swam 3 events and had a blast. It gives you incentive to work harder. I now qualify in more than 2 events.... I think... All I know is that I can swim 6 if I want to.

People forget that this is "MASTERS" not the olympics. We are there to have fun. It's an achievement if you just show up. Most of us have careers and day jobs that do not revolve around swimming.





This is my understanding of the rule:

As long as you can make the qualifying time, there's really no need to try to actually make it before the meet. Therefore, if your best 50 free time is three-tenths off the qualifying time, you can actually enter nationals at the qualifying time, and hope you swim faster than the qualifying time at nationals in order for it to be officially recognized in results.

So, Paul, if you're so close to the NQT in those three events, my suggestion is to enter at the qualifying time, pick three bonus events and train your butt off until taper for Austin.

Masters, unlike USAS, does not have a proof-of-time system in place to make sure every swimmer has swum faster than the qualifying time. It's on the honor system.

So, I wouldn't try to taper for a meet a month from nationals to "make the cut," then not be able to get back into form for nationals and not make the time.

Of course, if the situation is different, I ask for people to tell me so.

Blackbeard's Peg
January 16th, 2008, 11:47 PM
I'm confused....

I thought that even if you swam a non qualifying time at Nationals it is recorded in the results. FINA Master Worlds does not record your time if it is below the posted qualifying times. At least this was the case in 2006.


For any USMS Nationals I have seen, final times are published regardless of NQT achieved or not. You are correct about Worlds 06. I believe they put "NS" if you didn't make it. I guess USMS reserves the right to do the same should they so choose.

No one checks the times, except for when the occasional sandbagger gets called out. I think for the most part, people are pretty honest about it, and for those who are on the fence and fudge a bit to swim one extra event, its not going to kill anyone. The more the merrier!

pakman044
January 17th, 2008, 01:16 AM
For any USMS Nationals I have seen, final times are published regardless of NQT achieved or not. You are correct about Worlds 06. I believe they put "NS" if you didn't make it. I guess USMS reserves the right to do the same should they so choose.

No one checks the times, except for when the occasional sandbagger gets called out. I think for the most part, people are pretty honest about it, and for those who are on the fence and fudge a bit to swim one extra event, its not going to kill anyone. The more the merrier!

Concur. I don't see any provision in USMS rules that would allow such a change. You always get your official time, qualified or not.

Now at FINA Masters World Champs, no proof of time is required, but if you fail to make the cut, you get charged with an "NT" (you swam the event without disqualification, but did not get an official time). It was news to me when I saw it--I didn't know you could generate an "NT" as a result in Meet Manager as opposed to an NS or SCR.

Even in USA Swimming though, you always get your official time even if you miss the cut. You may be barred from scoring, or you and your club might get fined by the LSC!

Patrick King

pakman044
January 17th, 2008, 01:31 AM
I'm confused....

I thought that even if you swam a non qualifying time at Nationals it is recorded in the results. FINA Master Worlds does not record your time if it is below the posted qualifying times. At least this was the case in 2006.

I also don't understand why everyone gets so hung up on the NQT's. I didn't qualify the first year I went down, swam 3 events and had a blast. It gives you incentive to work harder. I now qualify in more than 2 events.... I think... All I know is that I can swim 6 if I want to.

People forget that this is "MASTERS" not the olympics. We are there to have fun. It's an achievement if you just show up. Most of us have careers and day jobs that do not revolve around swimming.

I'm fairly slow, and have always been slow historically in my age groups back in USA Swimming. So I never made any kind of championship meet requiring a cut ever (not even the 12 & Under BB championship meet!), and only made a finals once in my life (when there were less than two heats in the event, and my coach wouldn't let the meet director & referee go from prelims/finals to timed finals). But even for me, it makes the "quest" that much more worth it. Someday when I finally get an NQT and actually go to Nationals, it'll be that much more sweet for me.

But that doesn't necessarily make it less valid or worthwhile for you to go without NQT's and swim up to three events. How many times do you get to swim at a meet with 1500+ swimmers? It has to be a great atmosphere, with the possible exception of getting run over in a warmup lane by people who are as old as my mother ;-). We're in this sport after all because we feel what we get from our achievements makes it worthwhile, and generally not because of what we aren't.

Those are just two of the viewpoints you could take, and I'd say both are equally valid. Whatever makes it rewarding and fun is the way to go.

Patrick King

Xenadiva
January 17th, 2008, 10:03 AM
For any USMS Nationals I have seen, final times are published regardless of NQT achieved or not. You are correct about Worlds 06. I believe they put "NS" if you didn't make it. I guess USMS reserves the right to do the same should they so choose.

No one checks the times, except for when the occasional sandbagger gets called out. I think for the most part, people are pretty honest about it, and for those who are on the fence and fudge a bit to swim one extra event, its not going to kill anyone. The more the merrier!

Yeah..... Totally disagree about fudging a bit.... if it's a matter of 10th's of a sec that's one thing, but anything more..... no way.. If I missed an opportunity to swim my sixth event because someone put an event down who didn't make the qualifying time I wouldn't be happy about it. Last year I was 10ths of a second away from the qualifying time in 50 fly. I fudged my entry but by the time I made it to Nats I swam under the QT.

Nationals is a huge meet and if a lot of people start entering a lot of events that they don't qualify for it can lead to a meet that just drags on and on. As is I have to take a red eye back to NYC from Austin because it's possible the meet could run to 5:00 on the last day. I wish in the future that Nationals had more events on Saturday so we could get earlier flights out on Sunday.

Does anyone know if they have cut the 6th event for anyone in the past? I'm wondering if that has ever happened.

matysekj
January 17th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Does anyone know if they have cut the 6th event for anyone in the past? I'm wondering if that has ever happened.

Oh yeah, it's happened before. The last ones I remember were LCM in Cleveland in '02 and LCM at Baltimore in '00 (and that meet still went on to around midnight on the distance day). There could very well be more recent ones that this feeble mind can't remember right now. I can't remember for sure if the Savannah LCM meet in '04 dropped the sixth event or not. According to my notes I only swam 4 events there, but I know I scratched one due to inhaling half the pool during a prior event. Can't remember if the other one was an enforced sixth event drop or an optional scratch on my part.

It is much more likely to occur for a LCM meet with one competition pool than a SCY meet with two competition courses. In Tempe in '03 we had over 1900 swimmers and kept the sixth event (who wouldn't want to hang around a 104 degree pool deck for 12 hours a day?). I've swum in 9 SCY nationals and none of them have dropped the sixth event. That's not to say it couldn't happen if we get a really large turnout at a meet.

Blackbeard's Peg
January 17th, 2008, 11:37 AM
I can't remember for sure if the Savannah LCM meet in '04 dropped the sixth event or not.

I am pretty sure they did. I only swam 5 events, and looking through the results, looks like most everyone else did too.

Good thing they did, as day 2 would have been a lot longer with the tornado makeup events from that morning.

barryf
January 17th, 2008, 09:54 PM
The fifth event was dropped at LCN in Savannah in 2004. See http://www.usms.org/comp/lcnats04/

Meet Roster and Psych Sheets

Entries for this meet are closed as of July 8. There are 1,084 swimmers entered in the meet. The preliminary meet roster and psych sheets are now available for review.

Due to the size of this meet and the anticipated extended length of the events for each day, the sixth event has been dropped. All swimmers who entered six events for this meet have had their designated sixth event removed from their entry.

Spock
January 22nd, 2008, 02:01 AM
Spock will be there.

Rob Copeland
January 22nd, 2008, 08:41 AM
Spock will be there.Swim long and prosper.