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goggles
September 27th, 2007, 10:07 AM
I know alcohol can be detrimental to your health, but just how much does alcohol (even in moderation) affect a pesons ability to train? I have read an article which seems to suggest that major improvements can be made and sustained if alcohol is cut out of your diet. Something to do with B-Vitamin Deletion & Liver function.

SwimStud
September 27th, 2007, 10:13 AM
I know alcohol can be detrimental to your health, but just how much does alcohol (even in moderation) affect a pesons ability to train? I have read an article which seems to suggest that major improvements can be made and sustained if alcohol is cut out of your diet. Something to do with B-Vitamin Deletion & Liver function.

Personal choice.
If you're going to examine every aspect of your nutritional intake for optimum performance, then perhaps cutting out a beer or two will be part of the deal.

If you just want to do your best, train hard and such, but not have a restrictive and meticulously planned diet, then I say moderation and variety in all things.

If you're cutting out beer, but smoking 30 a day, living on ring-dings and McDonalds etc (ok perhaps a little extreme but you get the idea) the beer will be insignificant.

I still enjoy several beers/cocktails a week, and I am happy with my swimming progress. Cutting out booze alone, IMHO, won't lead to achievement of goals. At least that's how I see it, but it's your call in my opinion depending on your goals and idea of what "living" means.

:)

PS I am averaging 3k a workout, 3x a week. I don't feel the booze I consume has a detrimental effect. OK if I got hammered on Friday night yeah it might be hard to get to the pool on Saturday.

goggles
September 27th, 2007, 10:37 AM
I take your point, tanks.

I am not considering cutting it out completely, however I do notice that after meal & wine on Friday and beers on Saturday the Sunday training seems to be especially difficult, but by Tuesday I feel I'm flying along.

I don't think I have a restrictive diet. I eat well and generally don't do junk food, not because of health reasons I just don't like it.

That said, there are some swims coming up that I would like to do good times in & I may cut out alcohol temporarily.

tjburk
September 27th, 2007, 10:45 AM
If you do a little research you'll see that alcohol in moderation can actually be good for you!!!!!

I drink a glass of RED wine almost daily.....good for the heart and for cholesterol.......:wine:

SwimStud
September 27th, 2007, 10:54 AM
I take your point, tanks.

I am not considering cutting it out completely, however I do notice that after meal & wine on Friday and beers on Saturday the Sunday training seems to be especially difficult, but by Tuesday I feel I'm flying along.

I don't think I have a restrictive diet. I eat well and generally don't do junk food, not because of health reasons I just don't like it.

That said, there are some swims coming up that I would like to do good times in & I may cut out alcohol temporarily.

It could be you just relax on Friday and have trouble getting energised to workout on Saturday...could be a mental thing too, so if not drinking ahead of competition helps you...then abstain. :)

Slowswim
September 27th, 2007, 10:55 AM
If you do a little research you'll see that alcohol in moderation can actually be good for you!!!!!

I drink a glass of RED wine almost daily.....good for the heart and for cholesterol.......:wine:

My doctor told me I should have two glasses of red wine every night.

I must OBEY him!:wine::wine:

I lost my sweet tooth years ago so I don't eat desert or junk food, but I'll order the 12oz Filet over the 8oz when out for dinner. So I guess it balances out.

I bet if I gave up alcohol completely, I'd lose the last couple of stubborn pounds. I think I'd rather just workout harder.

tjburk
September 27th, 2007, 10:58 AM
Bill, I totally agree......I like food way too much to give it up......I'd rather just swim a little extra and keep eating!!!!!:wiggle::drown:

I had to give up my regular Filet that I love so much....cholesterol!!!!!!
Steak is almost as bad as shrimp!!!! Shrimp are like mini cholesterol bombs!!!! :censor::censor: I love shrimp!!!!!

goggles
September 27th, 2007, 10:59 AM
"I bet if I gave up alcohol completely, I'd lose the last couple of stubborn pounds."

Have this trouble also, and considered if cutting alcohol out temporarily didn't reflect on my times it might reflect on my waistline! Either way a winner!

SwimStud
September 27th, 2007, 11:07 AM
"I bet if I gave up alcohol completely, I'd lose the last couple of stubborn pounds."


I don't know...think it's more a total nutrition thing going on than just booze. Yes it will have a part to play but you have to look at your whole diet if you want to get ripped.

Slowswim
September 27th, 2007, 11:10 AM
I had to give up my regular Filet that I love so much....cholesterol!!!!!!
Steak is almost as bad as shrimp!!!! Shrimp are like mini cholesterol bombs!!!! :censor::censor: I love shrimp!!!!!

Shrimp have cholesterol? I've always assumed the shrimp, crab, and lobster were great sorts of protein without cholesterol.

Now I have a dilemma. If I give up shrimp, I may have to give my mandatory two glasses of wine that I love, but my waist and heart will be better.
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tjburk
September 27th, 2007, 11:27 AM
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR20/nutrlist/sr20a601.pdf

This is a pretty good source for what has what as far as cholesterol goes...

geochuck
September 27th, 2007, 11:53 AM
I was once told 1.5 oz of whiskie is a stimulant.

Old time marathon swimmers used to drink shots of brandy when they swam. They said it kept them warm. But it does have the opposite effect it sends blood to the surface of the skin and cold water cools the blood faster.

Slowswim
September 27th, 2007, 12:02 PM
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR20/nutrlist/sr20a601.pdf

This is a pretty good source for what has what as far as cholesterol goes...

What's a good score versus a bad one?

Of course, eggs (one of my favorites) is bad. This eating right is going to kill me.

geochuck
September 27th, 2007, 01:22 PM
I once swam a race at Yale Universty after drinking 40 ounces of wine. I had trouble getting on the starting block but I did qualify for the final.

I do not recomend this.

tjburk
September 27th, 2007, 01:24 PM
I am surprised the Cops didn't have you up against the bulkhead for that one George....SUI is a serious offense there buddy!!!!:rofl::rofl:

Treebox
September 27th, 2007, 02:16 PM
Beer, wine, distilled spirits: no Cholesterol!! Its what and how much you eat with them that hurts you. So much for that old college addage of drinking on a full stomach.

Bottom line: Swimming is supposed to be fun. Keep the balance between work hard/play hard and all is well.

I wouldn't think of having a steak without a glass of wine. Everything in moderation.

Tree

tjburk
September 27th, 2007, 02:42 PM
I totally agree Tree.......I have not...nor could I ever completely cut out a good steak..........like them entirely too much!!!! Shrimp too!!!!

aquageek
September 27th, 2007, 02:49 PM
I've lost a good deal of weight in the past 18 months. Reducing my alcohol intake was one part of the overall plan. I do swim generally better and feel better but it's hard to pin that on alcohol. Swimming fully hungover is pretty miserable.

Totally giving up beer and scotch is just too much to ask a single person. So, I will have to live with whatever detrimental impacts remain from still having a few drinks.

CreamPuff
September 27th, 2007, 06:38 PM
I found that the less I drink the faster I am (went :58 from a push at practice in 100 yd free today which is good for me). I'm also thinner - at a size 4 and high school weight. Right now, I average two drinks a week. The age groupers don't drink. And they are fast as heck. They can handle 2.5 to 3 hr practices and not die. :notworthy:

I like red wine but can't drink it at all. Give me migraines.

But, I doubt I'll cut it out completely. What fun is that? Hubby would prefer that we go out and drink more. But hey, he's lost 30 lbs. It ain't no coincidence.
:thhbbb:

CreamPuff
September 27th, 2007, 06:39 PM
Oh yea. One more thing. Ain't no one gettin' in the way of my steak and shrimp!

tjburk
September 27th, 2007, 10:29 PM
Kristina,

Could be the Sulfites in the wine that give you headaches. Luckily they don't bother me!

goggles
September 28th, 2007, 03:24 AM
Tanks everybody for the input.

Alcohol two days on the trot (even in moderation) seems to leave my body suffering and it usually takes 24-36 hours to get it out of my system and feel ready for a hard training session. Maybe I need to review my definition of moderation!

Haven't had booze for a week or so and do feel better

As for the steak. T-bone medium-rare and a glass of Chillean Merlot. Mmmmmmmm

tjburk
September 28th, 2007, 09:57 AM
My choice is to go to Carrabba's and get their Filet Marsala with a glass of the house red....Montepulciano d'Abruzzo.....really good wine if you ask me!!!

Slowswim
September 28th, 2007, 10:06 AM
I buy inch thick Porterhouses. Grill it myself. Cut the tenderloin off for Mrs Ss, a small piece of my sirloin for my daughter and the rest is all MINE! I prefer a slightly chilled Chardonnay Clos de Bois or J Lohr.

Ahh, a slice of heaven at the table.

tjburk
September 28th, 2007, 11:43 AM
Clos du Bois has a really good Cabernet Sauvignon too.....

Slowswim
September 28th, 2007, 11:53 AM
Clos du Bois has a really good Cabernet Sauvignon too.....

My wife will love that, but I pretty much stick to reds...Doctors orders!:groovy:
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3strokes
October 3rd, 2007, 10:45 AM
I found that the less I drink the faster I am :thhbbb:


On the other hand, the more one drinks, the less one cares about speed or times or performance or appearance or drag or friction or skinny-deeping uh-r doooin ze nutchral horstralian Kro (hiccup) lll.

geochuck
October 3rd, 2007, 04:58 PM
I am becoming a Tee Totaler today, but like my talk about getting off the internet, I will resume my old habit in two hours.

shark
October 4th, 2007, 08:26 AM
The following is a quote from Cheers as explained by Cliff to Norm.

"Well ya see, Norm, it's like this... A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the herd is hunted, it is the slowest buffalo at the back that get killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the herd is improved by the regular killing of the weakest ones. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the weakest and slowest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That is why you always feel smarter after a few beers."

B-double-E-double-R-U-N, BEERRUN!

Slowswim
October 4th, 2007, 02:20 PM
The following is a quote from Cheers as explained by Cliff to Norm.

"Well ya see, Norm, it's like this... A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the herd is hunted, it is the slowest buffalo at the back that get killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the herd is improved by the regular killing of the weakest ones. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the weakest and slowest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That is why you always feel smarter after a few beers."

B-double-E-double-R-U-N, BEERRUN!

So true. Besides humans only use 5% of their brain during their lives so we have a natural excess to draw from.:drink:

Brian: you buy; I'll fly!:party2:

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tjburk
October 4th, 2007, 08:13 PM
That is one of my favorite TV quotes!!!!!!


The following is a quote from Cheers as explained by Cliff to Norm.

"Well ya see, Norm, it's like this... A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the herd is hunted, it is the slowest buffalo at the back that get killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the herd is improved by the regular killing of the weakest ones. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the weakest and slowest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That is why you always feel smarter after a few beers."

B-double-E-double-R-U-N, BEERRUN!

goggles
October 5th, 2007, 04:33 AM
"Well ya see, Norm, it's like this... A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the herd is hunted, it is the slowest buffalo at the back that get killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the herd is improved by the regular killing of the weakest ones. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the weakest and slowest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That is why you always feel smarter after a few beers."



Makes sense to me!

Slowswim
October 5th, 2007, 09:40 AM
Makes sense to me!

Okay, now explain Ozzy Osborn.:mooning:

goggles
October 5th, 2007, 09:56 AM
Too much batjuice?

Slowswim
October 5th, 2007, 10:35 AM
Too much batjuice?
I guess he accidentally wiped out the whole herd.:lmao:

tjburk
October 5th, 2007, 01:36 PM
Bill, he never had a herd to kill!!!!! Just bats in the belfry!!!!:rofl::rofl:

swimr4life
October 8th, 2007, 08:04 AM
Maybe his brain cells weren't too fast to begin with? :bolt:

hofffam
October 8th, 2007, 04:09 PM
I am not in the least bit interested in reducing my alcohol consumption. I brew beer because I like it. I drink red wine because it tastes good (especially with food).

I'll even drink a beer or two the night before a meet. The body metabolizes that very modest quantity of alcohol in a few hours.

I have a drink of some kind, probably 4-5 days a week. But most times - just one drink at a sitting.

A.K.
October 8th, 2007, 07:21 PM
....................But most times - just one drink at a sitting.



I have one drink at a sitting too, then when I get up to get another I will sit for that one too..... and so on and so on.............
:drink:

goggles
October 9th, 2007, 03:33 AM
Shame on you all for making fun of such a serious subject. I was merely referring to an article whose main premise was that alcohol, even in moderation, can have negative effects on performance.

Notwithstanding the effects on sporting performance, the list of serious problems caused by alcohol in our society today is a very long one and I don't see this as a very humorous subject!

However, this leaves me with one very serious unanswered question.

Can I count a keg of beer as one drink? If so I can say I only have one drink a month!!!

3strokes
October 9th, 2007, 04:53 AM
Shame on you all for making fun of such a serious subject. I was merely referring to an article whose main premise was that alcohol, even in moderation, can have negative effects on performance.


That's a sawb........ so berr........ so beari....bare....sloberin.........s o b e r i n g thowtt.....thought.:drink:



However, this leaves me with one very serious unanswered question.

Can I count a keg of beer as one drink? If so I can say I only have one drink a month!!!

Which month? :bolt:

goggles
October 9th, 2007, 05:19 AM
Why each and every month of course!!! I believe in consistency!




Everything in moderation....... especially moderation!

A.K.
October 9th, 2007, 08:04 AM
Drinking a moderate amount of Beer the night before a race/meet has proven successful for me.

Definitely not during unless it's a bellyflop contest.

Renaissance Swimmer
October 17th, 2007, 04:18 PM
I haven't done the independent research, but there appears to be some support for the theory that beer is a good idea at the training table:

". . . two Italian sport doctors Antonelli and Romano . . . came to the conclusion that a liter of beer a day increases performance, concentration and reaction and strengthens muscles. The American cardiologist Sheehan maintains that after long distance running, jogging, cross country skiing or marathons, beer ideally replaces bodily fluids and energy. The French doctor Gulpin discovered decades ago that beer increases lung capacity and speeds the lung's ability to process oxygen." (http://www.spatenusa.com/3_products/...alth/index.htm (http://www.spatenusa.com/3_products/3_4_beer_health/index.htm))

You can research these conclusions yourself by visiting Oregon next summer for LC Nationals, and sampling some of Oregon's famous microbrews. Find out more: http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=9200

hofffam
October 17th, 2007, 04:41 PM
Shame on you all for making fun of such a serious subject. I was merely referring to an article whose main premise was that alcohol, even in moderation, can have negative effects on performance.

Notwithstanding the effects on sporting performance, the list of serious problems caused by alcohol in our society today is a very long one and I don't see this as a very humorous subject!

However, this leaves me with one very serious unanswered question.

Can I count a keg of beer as one drink? If so I can say I only have one drink a month!!!

I don't mean to be argumentative. But you didn't supply this article text so we don't know what it said. Most of us have also read articles that show modest alcohol consumption is associated with improved health.

I suggest further that society has been harmed by alcohol ABUSE, not simply alcohol consumption. I think the majority of people who consume alcohol do so safely and cause no harm either to themselves or others.

goggles
October 18th, 2007, 07:35 AM
I don't mean to be argumentative. But you didn't supply this article text so we don't know what it said. Most of us have also read articles that show modest alcohol consumption is associated with improved health.

I suggest further that society has been harmed by alcohol ABUSE, not simply alcohol consumption. I think the majority of people who consume alcohol do so safely and cause no harm either to themselves or others.

You are quite right to point out the difference between ABUSE and CONSUMPTION.

Unfortunately the article was a hard copy handed to me with no reference, I just threw it out there to see if anyone had any information/thoughts on the subject. I have stopped drinking completely the last week or two and I feel I am training better/harder, whether or not this reflects on my times or not is another matter.

Warren
October 18th, 2007, 07:18 PM
Alcohol won't effect training that much unless you are training intensly.

stussy96
October 22nd, 2007, 10:50 PM
I enjoy beer.

I enjoy swimming.

Therefore:
We need more beer relays at meets.

I firmly believe the age group I just moved up from (the young-ens) would double in size if there was announced beer at meets. :drink:

Warren
October 22nd, 2007, 11:14 PM
I enjoy beer.

I enjoy swimming.

Therefore:
We need more beer relays at meets.

I firmly believe the age group I just moved up from (the young-ens) would double in size if there was announced beer at meets. :drink:

there needs to be a 4 x 50 free beer relay where each member of the relay swims a 25, gets out and chugs a beer, then immediatly jumps in and finishes the 50. That would be fun.

The Fortress
October 22nd, 2007, 11:29 PM
I firmly believe the age group I just moved up from (the young-ens) would double in size if there was announced beer at meets. :drink:


Really, I think this could apply to any age group. :drink: We're not all dead. Yet. :lmao:

stussy96
October 22nd, 2007, 11:44 PM
Wow...chugging a whole beer and then swimming? I may puke by the time I finish that 2nd 25. :drown:

Warren
October 23rd, 2007, 12:00 AM
Wow...chugging a whole beer and then swimming? I may puke by the time I finish that 2nd 25. :drown:

I'v done a running beer relay that was a 4 x about 100 where you chuged the beer before you ran and none of the participants threw up. swimming might be different becasue of the water pressure but its only a 25 after you chug a beer.

The Fortress
October 23rd, 2007, 12:04 AM
I'v done a running beer relay that was a 4 x about 100 where you chuged the beer before you ran and none of the participants threw up. swimming might be different becasue of the water pressure but its only a 25 after you chug a beer.

edited

geochuck
October 23rd, 2007, 09:27 AM
Chugged 2 beers in front of Clark Scholes then went out and beat him in the 100.

But chugged them then went to the washroom and expelled them. The rest of the story I can not tell.

stussy96
October 23rd, 2007, 12:13 PM
But chugged them then went to the washroom and expelled them. The rest of the story I can not tell.

What's left to tell after throwing up????

Slowswim
October 29th, 2007, 01:16 PM
I did a 2 person 3 mile 6 pack relay. 2 beers at the start, 2 at 1.5 miles, and 2 at the finish. The rules were simple: you started together and finished together. All beers had to be drunk before crossing the finish line. No you could run and drink.

Our strategy was, I drank the first two and ran straight to the finish. My partner ran to the half way and drank those two. We each ran the last two and finished. We did well, but our fast running didn't make up for our slow drinking.:sad:

Oh well, it was fun and lots of beer.:drink:
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geochuck
November 3rd, 2007, 10:45 AM
Just saw that beer is one of the best Hydrators after training and competeing.

It also replces much needed carbs.

Swimmer Bill
November 3rd, 2007, 10:50 AM
Just saw that beer is one of the best Hydrators after training and copeteing.

It also replces much needed carbs.


However, beer doesn't mix well with typing...

:bolt: