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Stillhere
October 5th, 2007, 09:30 AM
Marion Jones will admit in court today that she cheated during the 2000 Olympics in Sydney by taking illegal performance enhancing drugs.

I hope they strip her of her medals and give her a life time ban from competition. For years and years she lied and gave interviews boldly stating that the accusations against her were racially driven and all the while she was immersed in a very complex cheating program.

Another pathetic example of winning at any cost....

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news?slug=ap-jones-dopingrun&prov=ap&type=lgns

Swimmer Bill
October 5th, 2007, 09:41 AM
Meanwhile...

Wu Yanyan's world record in the 200 IM (2:09.72 from 1997) still stands, and a generation of women swimmers who used steroids over 30 years ago still have their Olympic medals.

OMG, I'm starting to sound like my buddy Phil W.

:eek:

knelson
October 5th, 2007, 09:52 AM
It's disgusting to think of all the money Marion Jones made from her tainted performances. I don't know how these people can live with themselves. She's a real class act. First she claimed she was innocent for years, now she blames her coach. She even had the gall to sue Victor Conte of BALCO after he said she used steroids and HGH.

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 09:52 AM
Stillhere everyone should be given a second chance. Coaches have been known to do underhanded things. It has happened in swimming where the coach supplied the water bottles for his swimmers. The kids did not know.

By the way that coach is still coaching kids.

knelson
October 5th, 2007, 10:00 AM
I don't think she does George. Even if she didn't know she was using illegal drugs at first, she certainly did at some point yet she's continued to deny cheating and has made huge amounts of money due to her tainted performances.

aquageek
October 5th, 2007, 10:01 AM
Um, George, she's had second, third and fourth chances. In addition, she married a doper and trained under a doper. I believe she's out of chances.

I'm also upset because she is a fellow Tar Heel.

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 10:05 AM
I know Geek but she is so beutiful.

aquageek
October 5th, 2007, 10:08 AM
I know Geek but she is so beutiful.

That is true, we are beautiful people, us Tar Heels.

The Fortress
October 5th, 2007, 10:11 AM
It's disgusting to think of all the money Marion Jones made from her tainted performances. I don't know how these people can live with themselves. She's a real class act. First she claimed she was innocent for years, now she blames her coach. She even had the gall to sue Victor Conte of BALCO after he said she used steroids and HGH.

I agree with Kirk. Tar Heel or no, she's been knowingly lying for years. This "I just paniced" crap is ridiculous. I hope she spends some time in the slammer. This is not an innocent or naive person.

Stillhere
October 5th, 2007, 10:19 AM
George, you are right; everyone should be given a second chance. In her case Geek hit the nail on the head with the amount of chances she had. She had years and years to make this right and she chose to continue with the lies and cheaters mind set. More then the money she made from her cheating, she deprived others clean athletes of their time of glory. Think of all those years and years of hard work, pain, dedication and effort it took to get to the Olympics and then have your honest performance stolen from you by a cheater. A cheater I might add that never repented or admitted her cheating until she had to.

knelson
October 5th, 2007, 10:20 AM
She's not beautiful, she's ugly.

...and I'm not talking about her physical appearance.

scyfreestyler
October 5th, 2007, 10:26 AM
:blah::blah::blah:
That is true, we are beautiful people, us Tar Heels.

Slowswim
October 5th, 2007, 10:27 AM
Your second chance isn't the one after you are caught, its the one after you first discover you are doing something wrong. She and her husband, both knowingly broke the rules on a daily basis.

No :cry:for her from me. I'm with Geek on this.
</IMG>

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 10:33 AM
You all must remember - I am still sick over Ben Johnston. I stuck with him until he fluffed his second chance. I still think he was a great runner. He took the drugs to keep up with all the other druggies. His Gold medal was given to another user although that guy is still in denial.

I still believe athletes should be able to take whatever they want to be better and faster.

But I for one am like bill Clinton and his weed. The only difference I have never tried it, I have never even taken a puff.

SwimStud
October 5th, 2007, 10:33 AM
Stillhere everyone should be given a second chance. Coaches have been known to do underhanded things. It has happened in swimming where the coach supplied the water bottles for his swimmers. The kids did not know.

By the way that coach is still coaching kids.

Frankly, if I found out someone slipped my kids drugs like that...I'd punch their lights out...

david.margrave
October 5th, 2007, 10:40 AM
Can they retroactively award her medals to the next finishers?

Slowswim
October 5th, 2007, 10:40 AM
Frankly, if I found out someone slipped my kids drugs like that...I'd punch their lights out...

You are much kinder than I would be. They'd never find the body.

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 10:44 AM
He did it in the USA and now In Canada.

Stud I will PM you about something else he has done.




Frankly, if I found out someone slipped my kids drugs like that...I'd punch their lights out...

Stillhere
October 5th, 2007, 10:46 AM
"I still believe athletes should be able to take whatever they want to be better and faster."

George, I respect your right to think this and to post this thought. I however, believe and feel 180 degs opposite. I believe taking performance enhancing drugs tarnishes competition and degrades the purity of sports. I believe anyone caught red handed taking illegal performance enhancing drugs should be seriously punished.

I have a son who swims for one of the service academies and he has never taken any illegal drug. I know a gold medal winning swimmer from Athens very well. In fact, I watched her grow up into a fine, beautiful, strong, fast and dope free young lady. I would hate to see her robbed of her hard work, dedication, clean & honest performances by some drug taking cheater. Their is no room for this in sports, none.

knelson
October 5th, 2007, 10:58 AM
The Ben Johnson story is an interesting one. Charlie Francis (Johnson's coach as well as Marion Jones', for a time) admitted Johnson took steroids, but claims he was NOT taking Stanozolol, which is what he tested positive for. Both Johnson and Francis believe someone else somehow caused Johnson's test to come out positive for that drug.

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 11:04 AM
Many of us live in a dream world to be drug free.

When you know your competition is using, what is an athlete to do. I always choose not to use anything illegal.

I had been offered steroids in the 50s, I did take one pill then read about these little pills and decided not to take them.

But remember when I raced caffein was allowed. The Marathon entry forms had a line in it saying you could use stimulants. Now can you Imagine what some of those guys took. I know what they took and it was not good.

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 11:09 AM
Ben always said he was given something to drink by another athlete just before he went for his test. I know the name of the guy who gave him the drink, he was from the USA but can not say it. I would surely be sued.

Those were the days when everyone was using something.

knelson
October 5th, 2007, 11:14 AM
Ben always said he was given something to drink by another athlete just before he went for his test. I know the name of the guy who gave him the drink, he was from the USA but can not say it. I would surely be sued.

Apparently Carl Lewis didn't give him the drink, but it was someone who was friends with Lewis. Anyway, it's pretty hard to feel much sympathy for someone who readily admits they cheated.

See: http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2006/12/05/johnson-lewis-conspiracy.html

aquageek
October 5th, 2007, 11:17 AM
Those were the days when everyone was using something.

I thought those were these days - Landis, Jones, Travis Henry, Ricky Williams, the entire field at the Tour de Farce - the list of current athletes is endless.

Also, I've about had it with these grown adults claiming someone slipped them a roofie. I guess that is the adult version of "my dog ate it."

I have a pal who is tested over a dozen times a year. He says it really is pretty simple to not use drugs, contrary to the wacko stories all the dopers come up with.

poolraat
October 5th, 2007, 11:20 AM
Those were the days when everyone was using something.

Looks like those days are still with us.

This really saddens me because track and field used to be my sport. Like cycling all track athletes are suspect now. I just hope the next scandal is not a swimmer.

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 11:20 AM
You are right Ben Johnson told me who it was. It is hard to be really be down on Johnson as everyone was doing it at that time.

Apparently Carl Lewis didn't give him the drink, but it was someone who was friends with Lewis. Anyway, it's pretty hard to feel much sympathy for someone who readily admits they cheated.

See: http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2006/12/05/johnson-lewis-conspiracy.html

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 11:23 AM
Poolrat - if only you knew. I have my suspicions, I knew lots of them when I was swimming. Thats why I say let them do what they want we will never know who is clean and who is dirty as long as there is a drug designer who keeps ahead of the testers.

Looks like those days are still with us.

This really saddens me because track and field used to be my sport. Like cycling all track athletes are suspect now. I just hope the next scandal is not a swimmer.

david.margrave
October 5th, 2007, 11:33 AM
At this point the rules are no doping. Until they have two olympics ('natural' and 'juicer'), the people who enter agree to the rules, and if they get caught red-handed, well, too bad for them.

ViveBene
October 5th, 2007, 11:39 AM
Thats why I say let them do what they want we will never know who is clean and who is dirty as long as there is a drug designer who keeps ahead of the testers.

From casual reading, I think that is a central issue: the drug designers stay ahead of the testers. Also, there is a limit (above zero) set for some drugs, so (some) athletes drug to just short of that level. It's legal. The original Olympians allegedly used anything they could get their hands on. Although rather distant from it (it's not an issue I get high blood pressure over), I don't think there is a real solution. Maybe aided versus unaided Games.

Think back to the days of Marion Jones's glory: wasn't her husband/BF or trainer kicked out of the Games right then? Did you think Jones was 100% pure?

Regards, VB

BillS
October 5th, 2007, 11:44 AM
I think the public denials and lying ultimately may do as much damage to sport as the cheating. What egomaniacal sense of entitlement gives an athlete -- or sitting President, for that matter, but this is not a political discussion -- the right to sit on a dais and feed us pure bs for years, then turn around and beg forgiveness when finally caught out? What message does that send to my kids who are just starting into competitive athletics?

The whole sordid affair is disgusting, and unfortunately makes me view similar denials by athletes with about an ocean of salt.

SwimStud
October 5th, 2007, 11:51 AM
Think back to the days of Marion Jones's glory: wasn't her husband/BF or trainer kicked out of the Games right then? Did you think Jones was 100% pure?
Regards, VB

No...I am sure he was slipping her something back then too...:D



As Sonny Corleone said: "There's alotta money in the white powder..."

aquageek
October 5th, 2007, 11:53 AM
BillS makes a good point. I would hazard a guess that about 50% of all notable athletic achievements the past decade are clouded or have been proven as outright fraud - baseball certainly is disgraced entirely, pro football somewhat but that's more from illegal drugs and thuggery, cycling without a dout is a sham, T&F/weightlifting are completely corrupt, swimming has had its fair share of issues.

Then, you got gull over there in Texas sporting those new pipes, just makes you wonder about it all, oh the humanity.

SwimStud
October 5th, 2007, 11:53 AM
I think the public denials and lying ultimately may do as much damage to sport as the cheating. What egomaniacal sense of entitlement gives an athlete -- or sitting President, for that matter, but this is not a political discussion -- the right to sit on a dais and feed us pure bs for years, then turn around and beg forgiveness when finally caught out? What message does that send to my kids who are just starting into competitive athletics?

The whole sordid affair is disgusting, and unfortunately makes me view similar denials by athletes with about an ocean of salt.


It is a shame. Ruins the idea of it.
"Hey kids...do be obese video game addicts...pick a sport...if you're not fast enough, we know a guy that can get you "cheat codes" for the field..."

SwimStud
October 5th, 2007, 11:55 AM
Then, you got gull over there in Texas sporting those new pipes, just makes you wonder about it all, oh the humanity.

that's from all that steer wrangling he's been donig on the side...

knelson
October 5th, 2007, 11:56 AM
Maybe aided versus unaided Games.

That not a solution. Who's going to want to watch, advertise for, or compete in an "Aided Olympics?" Other than as a freak show, perhaps.

Josh54
October 5th, 2007, 11:57 AM
Periodically, I read a thread about doping on some forum and am always amazed at the basic mistake being made by most folks. Here it is: elite sport is not sport as most understand the concept. It has nothing to do with a healty lifestyle or concepts such as honor. It is a big money business. Very big. An athlete is payed alot of money and is expected to do everything he has to do to win. I do not believe that there is any big time sport where doping is not prevelant.

And guess what - we are all guilty ! We all want to see records broken even though we know that they are already at super human levels. Does anybody think that Tour deFrance riders could get thru that 3 week hell only on Wheaties?

Recentlt I saw an old NBA playoff game from the 60's - Boston vs. Philadelphia. I was amazed at how much the physiqes of NBA players have changed since then. Yes, back then they didn't do as much weight training but does anyone seriously not think that today substance use is much more prevelant? BTW, if I remember correctly, in those days guys like Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain made $100,000 a year and there was not a big mechandise market like today.

So..Marion gets stripped of her medal, we all feel rightous :angel: and it's given to another athlete who , of course:doh:, never took any substance.

aquageek
October 5th, 2007, 12:03 PM
Josh54 - not sure what your point is. I don't think any of us are naive about sports, especially in America these days. Sports is no different than any business where there is an epidemic of shady things being done to get ahead. While most of us aren't elite athletes, we are professionals and we know all sorts of things available to any professional to bend the rules or get ahead (insider trading, suspect accounting).

And, yes, there are tour riders who get through without doping, just as there are businesses that achieve without cheating.

Stillhere
October 5th, 2007, 12:11 PM
Heck, we can continue to lower the bar to make sure everyone gets a medal. We can turn our backs on drug cheaters like some think we should, but I'd like to think we took the high road and competed clean and set examples for our kids that decency, honesty and ethics mean something, even if it cost us a gold medal.
I had a great boss once who used to say, "I met a lot of people in business over the years that had ethics, as long as it didn't cost them anything." The argument that everyone else is doing it is lame....and does not justify the means. Wrong will always be just that...wrong.
I also do not buy the "I did not know nonsense". It is bad enough that they cheat, but do not add insult to misery by insulting my intellect by telling me you did not know. That is akin to a guys wife walking into the bedroom and finding him in bed with the next door neighbor, then telling his wife "it is not what it looks like". Ok, hot shot....I'm all ears, then what is it?

meldyck
October 5th, 2007, 12:19 PM
That not a solution. Who's going to want to watch, advertise for, or compete in an "Aided Olympics?" Other than as a freak show, perhaps.


Kirk,

I'm not so sure about your assumption. After all, the audience watching the 'World's Strongest Man' competition and all brands of wrestling is pretty large. But, maybe that's just the freak show aspect that most of the TV viewing public seems to crave.

Leonard Jansen
October 5th, 2007, 12:54 PM
Can they retroactively award her medals to the next finishers?

Current rule is that this can be done retroactively for a period of 8 years. So, yes, anything she won from 1999 on is fair game at this point.

-LBJ

fatboy
October 5th, 2007, 01:13 PM
At this point the rules are no doping. Until they have two olympics ('natural' and 'juicer'), the people who enter agree to the rules, and if they get caught red-handed, well, too bad for them.

Not to be overly cynical, but what make us think that the 'juicers' wouldn't enter the 'natural' olympics?

Slowswim
October 5th, 2007, 01:39 PM
That not a solution. Who's going to want to watch, advertise for, or compete in an "Aided Olympics?" Other than as a freak show, perhaps.

Body Building tried to do this. The one that failed was the clean version. :shakeshead: Go figure.

david.margrave
October 5th, 2007, 01:44 PM
Body Building tried to do this. The one that failed was the clean version. :shakeshead: Go figure.

Do you have more details? What was the story, not enough competitors, sponsors, advertisers, all of the above, etc.?

Slowswim
October 5th, 2007, 01:51 PM
Do you have more details? What was the story, not enough competitors, sponsors, advertisers, all of the above, etc.?
Best I remember it was both. The size difference between the two competition was emormous and the "clean" athletes were unimpressive.:shakeshead: It lasted only a few years.

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 01:51 PM
And who said they were drug free???

marksman
October 5th, 2007, 02:23 PM
What's good about all this is that a lot of us won't be so naive anymore.

Still it was a shock when I heard about Marion. In retrospect I'm not sure why, with so much money at stake, and not just for Marion but for all those associated with her.

Redbird Alum
October 5th, 2007, 02:59 PM
All the above being said, I think we should all do our best to not buy the trade rags, and books that will pay Marion to give them "exclusive rights" to her trails and travails.

I wish the last and only thing we hear about this is the broadcast of her having to return all of her medals to the International Olympic Committee.

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 03:05 PM
All the above being said, I think we should all do our best to not buy the trade rags, and books that will pay Marion to give them "exclusive rights" to her trails and travails.

I wish the last and only thing we hear about this is the broadcast of her having to return all of her medals to the International Olympic Committee.


Better still return her falsley earned money.

knelson
October 5th, 2007, 04:28 PM
Including the money she took from Conte/BALCO when they settled after she sued them for defamation.

ALM
October 5th, 2007, 05:08 PM
What am I missing here? I've read a couple of today's news articles, but I haven't seen anything that explained why she decided to confess today.

Also, she claims that she didn't know she was taking anything illegal until after the fact:


Jones now admits she took “the clear” — the steroid THG — for two years, beginning in 1999, and that she got it from former coach Trevor Graham, who told her it was flaxseed oil, the Post reported. In her letter, Jones said she didn’t realize she’d used performance-enhancing drugs until she stopped training with Graham at the end of 2002, the newspaper reported.

If this is true, then how did she manage to avoid any positive drug tests during that time?

Anna Lea

The Fortress
October 5th, 2007, 05:30 PM
Including the money she took from Conte/BALCO when they settled after she sued them for defamation.

I wonder if the settlement agreement can be vitiated for fraud.

jonblank
October 5th, 2007, 05:49 PM
Marion Jones will admit in court today that she cheated during the 2000 Olympics in Sydney by taking illegal performance enhancing drugs.

I hope they strip her of her medals and give her a life time ban from competition. For years and years she lied and gave interviews boldly stating that the accusations against her were racially driven and all the while she was immersed in a very complex cheating program.

Another pathetic example of winning at any cost....

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/news?slug=ap-jones-dopingrun&prov=ap&type=lgns

I really had hoped that Marion Jones didn't lie, and that she didn't take "performance-enhancing" drugs. I had hoped the same about Floyd Landis. I have stated on this forum that I believed innocence until guilt is proven.

I now recognize that I have been naive. I have been proven wrong too often with elite-level athletes denying their cheating. Well, no longer. I am a hardened cynic now. Maybe this is my over-reaction (see Freud's "narcissism of small differences"), but I am so tired of this. :dedhorse:

What really bothers me that children and the easily-impressioned might come to believe that the only road to winning is by cheating, rather than by hard work, good coaching, and mental focus.

That is simply wrong. The evil athletes (among whom I now count Marion Jones and Landis) not only diminish themselves, but they cut the heart out of fair competition for us all. I respect athletes who achieve their goals by working hard. I hate those who cheat.

amswimmer
October 5th, 2007, 06:01 PM
If she is required to return her medals, what happens to her relay medals?

ALM
October 5th, 2007, 06:08 PM
If she is required to return her medals, what happens to her relay medals?

From the MSNBC story on http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21151214/:

"What would happen to the U.S. relay team medals won by Jones is also uncertain.

After a long legal case, the Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled in 2005 that only Jerome Young should be stripped of the gold medal won by the United States in the 1,600 relay in Sydney.

The IOC, IAAF and World Anti-Doping Agency had pushed for the entire team — including Michael Johnson — to be stripped of the victory. Young tested positive for steroids in 1999 but was cleared by a U.S. panel on appeal and allowed to compete in Sydney. He ran in the preliminaries but not the final."

-

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 06:20 PM
What would happen if everyone who cheated lost their medals and the relays were all affected. I think there would be very few Olympic winners around. If every football or baseball team that had a druggie on the team lost who would play in a world series or Super Bowl.

Drugs were and are still part of culture. I do not watch baseball or football any more.

craiglll@yahoo.com
October 5th, 2007, 06:50 PM
"I still believe athletes should be able to take whatever they want to be better and faster."

George, I respect your right to think this and to post this thought. I however, believe and feel 180 degs opposite. I believe taking performance enhancing drugs tarnishes competition and degrades the purity of sports. I believe anyone caught red handed taking illegal performance enhancing drugs should be seriously punished.

I have a son who swims for one of the service academies and he has never taken any illegal drug. I know a gold medal winning swimmer from Athens very well. In fact, I watched her grow up into a fine, beautiful, strong, fast and dope free young lady. I would hate to see her robbed of her hard work, dedication, clean & honest performances by some drug taking cheater. Their is no room for this in sports, none.

Purity in sports--Are you kidding. There has never been purity in sports. Atheletes and society demand it. The only reason the Olympics are "nonprofessional" s because the Great Britian Olympic movement had a lot of money and influence when the modern Olympics were developed. It has nothig to do with purity. They ensured that professional swimmers, rowers and fencers were not permitted to compete.

My Grandfather was a national bicyclist when he was a young man. They cheated anyway they could. During the late 1880s bicycling was a very popular sport in the States. One reason why it lost a lot of favor was because of the underhandedness. And also Car racing-which had to be orginaized to keep organized crime out of it or alt least under the radar.

Also this really does question Lance Armstrong's statements about doping even more becuase Marion Anderson didn't test positive, i believe

gull
October 5th, 2007, 07:41 PM
If this is true, then how did she manage to avoid any positive drug tests during that time?

Couldn't be detected by the tests available at that time.

Amy Van Dyken testified before the same grand jury in 2003. She has been linked to Bill Romanowski, who reportedly introduced her to BALCO's Victor Conte. Her testimony remains sealed.

fanstone
October 5th, 2007, 09:16 PM
Most people involved with running (or track and field) knew about Jones' drug involvement. More people outside the U.S. knew about it. But she was cute, didn't get deformed like the Flo girl. That was a normal girl turned into monster who probably died due to her usage...it was Florence Joyner, just did a check on my memory. No one speaks about her anymore...billy fanstone

geochuck
October 5th, 2007, 10:10 PM
Just had the biggest laugh. Carl Lewis just came over on CNN talking about how shocked he was about Marion. Now that is a laugh... I had read he was a user.

knelson
October 6th, 2007, 01:18 AM
Also this really does question Lance Armstrong's statements about doping even more becuase Marion Anderson didn't test positive, i believe

Are you trying to tell me even opera singers dope? :lmao:

3strokes
October 6th, 2007, 02:53 AM
Kirk,

I'm not so sure about your assumption. After all, the audience watching the 'World's Strongest Man' competition and all brands of wrestling is pretty large. But, maybe that's just the freak show aspect that most of the TV viewing public seems to crave.


Actually a large number of those watching such shows (like Wrestling), believe everything they see is "real" and not staged or choreographed.

3strokes
October 6th, 2007, 02:59 AM
Are you trying to tell me even opera singers dope? :lmao::rofl:


Aren't they called "Performance" enhancing drugs? Doesn't matter if the "performance" is performed at the Colisseum or the Metropolitan.............

geochuck
October 6th, 2007, 09:29 AM
3strokes

I have a name change suggestion, you are a funny guy,:groovy::groovy::groovy: should you not change your name to 3jokes

3strokes
October 6th, 2007, 01:08 PM
3strokes

I have a name change suggestion, you are a funny guy,:groovy::groovy::groovy: should you not change your name to 3jokes


And limit myself to 3 jokes (per month? year? week? post?).
Or, worse, what if I don't rise up to the occasion (joke-wise)? People will expect "funny" all the time and I won't be able to interject serious discussions (For example, I shall soon advertise that a customer of ours -never mind which Bank!- had left $182,000,006.98 in a secret bank account and then has been lunched on by a Great White and that I'm the estate executor and that I'm willing to let a lucky person share if they'll let me use their bank accounts as masks, for a modest fee).

On the other hand, during that last game we had (was it the Masquerade Ball? My memory's really going fast), I stayed true to my name and did not use fake identities.

Thanks for the suggestion, George, but I'll stick to my alibi..... oops, story, I mean, name.

lefty
October 6th, 2007, 06:42 PM
Just had the biggest laugh. Carl Lewis just came over on CNN talking about how shocked he was about Marion. Now that is a laugh... I had read he was a user.

George, is your source for all this dirt on Carl Lewis Ben Johnson? And do you actually believe Ben Johnson's story that someone gave him a drink right before the test? Come on man, that is just silly.

It is becoming a pattern: Everytime Ben comes up you throw Carl under the bus. You are mistaken if you believe that trashing Carl some how makes Ben look better. It comes accross as petty to me.

geochuck
October 6th, 2007, 06:44 PM
I personally do not think Marion was cheating. I think she was just keeping up with the Joneses. Is it cheating when you do exactly what everyone else does in your event does. All sport are full of druggies. The person who is a proven cheater wants the medals.

She was not caught, is there any drug test that said she was cheating. If there was I have not seen the report. Heresay evidence is not proof.

geochuck
October 6th, 2007, 06:47 PM
The Canadian press sent investigative reporters to check on the USA association and blaimed the problem on the US drug testing and hiding the test results. I will search it out and let you have the report. It does mention Carl Lewis. No this did not come from Ben Johson. I had posted the report before about 2 years ago. Cover up http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/17/1050172709693.html opps another one http://irs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/39/2/167

ViveBene
October 6th, 2007, 07:46 PM
I personally do not think Marion was cheating. I think she was just keeping up with the Joneses. Is it cheating when you do exactly what everyone else does in your event does.

This seems to be the crux of it. Drugging to permissible levels, trying something that hasn't been banned because it was not known to exist, the unusually high rate of diagnosed asthma among Olympic contenders, which allows them to use inhalants.... It's cheating and lying and all that good stuff to sign a piece of paper for Olympic Committee saying you are pure as the new-driven snow. But eventually the black and white get lost in shades of gray, and some serious journalism has basically said, let them do all the drugs they want.

But flaxseed oil?!? Er, no.

Regards, VB

geochuck
October 6th, 2007, 08:20 PM
I am really not infavour of this kind of cheating, it is that everyone has the right to a level playing field. I think the responsibilty for drugging should be with each team. If any one from a any country is caught, everyone from that nation should be disqualified for a year. It would clean up the situation fast.

The Fortress
October 7th, 2007, 12:28 AM
She was not caught, is there any drug test that said she was cheating. If there was I have not seen the report. Heresay evidence is not proof.

We are not talking hearsay, George. She admits to taking steroids. And she tested postitive for EPO on an A sample in 2004, I believe.

But I agree with VB, "er, flaxseed oil?!?!" Those athletes know what they put in their body. She is guilty of more than just outright lying. She's practically surrounded herself with and embraced drug users and drug coaches for years.

Here's a column from Sally Jenkins whose thoughts/writing I usually admire. But I don't agree with her conclusion on this article. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/05/AR2007100502488.html

geochuck
October 7th, 2007, 08:18 AM
Sorry I mentioned politics I took off my post.

Flax seed oil, reminds of the days when I took Wheat Germ Oil.
It was our wonder drug.

craiglll@yahoo.com
October 7th, 2007, 03:04 PM
There are a lot of things Carl Lewis wants to be kept a secret. He is probably one of the most dishonest people, especially with his own life.

Stillhere
October 8th, 2007, 10:51 AM
[QUOTE=craiglll@yahoo.com;108636]Purity in sports--Are you kidding. There has never been purity in sports. Atheletes and society demand it. The only reason the Olympics are "nonprofessional" s because the Great Britian Olympic movement had a lot of money and influence when the modern Olympics were developed. It has nothig to do with purity....

Craig, I honestly believe that purity does exist in sports. Look at the volumes of clean age group, college and Olympic swimmers. I know of one great USA Olympic Gold Medal Swimmer that I would bet my life on her being 100 % clean. The drug cheaters have made us all skepitics and that is a sad commentary unto itself.

geochuck
October 8th, 2007, 11:06 AM
Stillhere - Don't bet your house on it you may have to sleep in your car.

Blackbeard's Peg
October 8th, 2007, 11:49 AM
Is anyone else wondering how this ended up being so popular in the "General Swimming Related Discussions," when Ande had posted this in the NSR thread prior? :dunno:
:dedhorse:

TomBrooklyn
October 8th, 2007, 12:03 PM
It's a tragic tale. Her life will improve if she choses to be honest in more things from now on.

Rob Copeland
October 8th, 2007, 12:12 PM
Is anyone else wondering how this ended up being so popular in the "General Swimming Related Discussions," when Ande had posted this in the NSR thread prior? :dunno:
:dedhorse:Good point. This thread is closed. Please feel free to comment on the NSR thread http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?t=9130