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meldyck
October 7th, 2007, 09:46 AM
There has been a lot of discussion on this Forum about cheating elite athletes who use performance-enhancing drugs to beat their competitors.

For the purpose of playing Devil's Advocate, I want to suggest a hypothetical drug, purely for masters athletes, to see how we would react to its availability.

Suppose, in their quest for cosmetic perfection and physiological betterment in humans, the drug companies develop one or more drugs for the aging population that would:

1) increase the flexibility of connective and cushioning tissue in and around joints;
2) reverse bone density loss;
3) restore hormonal flows to their youthful levels;
4) increase flexibility in the vascular system while removing unwanted plaque;
5) restore visual accommodation to its youthful level; and
6) many other things that my aging mind has long since forgotten.

Further, there are NO adverse side effects to the drug(s) except that they are very costly. Not everyone who competes will be able to afford the tab.

This is not a performance-enhancing drug in the same sense that those used by today's elite athletes are, where the body is added to in some way, but is clearly an enhancement for humans of your age cohort.

Would YOU, if you could, take this drug knowing that it would enhance your performance relative to your non-using competitors? Or would you choose to live out your life aging in the completely natural way?

As my 66-year-old body aches from developing arthritis and overused joints, I would opt to take the drug(s) if I could afford it (them). This betrays my own personal hypocrisy toward athlete drug users. Any other takers out there?

ensignada
October 7th, 2007, 09:58 AM
A competitive edge isn't an issue for me (I'm not that good, I'm that bad lol), but I would consider taking something that would allow me to stay active past the time when my body would be begging me to cut down if I could afford it.

SwimStud
October 7th, 2007, 10:29 AM
Mel...we have it already...Viagara!

CreamPuff
October 7th, 2007, 10:41 AM
Further, there are NO adverse side effects to the drug(s) . . .

When monkeys fly. :rofl:

meldyck
October 7th, 2007, 11:21 AM
When monkeys fly.

Just remember, Kristina, that humans can fly and you and I both know some of them who are pretty close to monkeys when it comes to personal behavior!

Some of the drugs available today to me (and Rich...) would have qualified for the flying monkey category when I was your age.

CreamPuff
October 7th, 2007, 12:28 PM
Just remember, Kristina, that humans can fly and you and I both know some of them who are pretty close to monkeys when it comes to personal behavior!

Some of the drugs available today to me (and Rich...) would have qualified for the flying monkey category when I was your age.

So true. So true. :rofl: I hate to sound like an old fart at 35!

I think it's safe to say that nothing is for certain other than death and taxes.

ViveBene
October 7th, 2007, 01:58 PM
1) increase the flexibility of connective and cushioning tissue in and around joints;
2) reverse bone density loss;
3) restore hormonal flows to their youthful levels;
4) increase flexibility in the vascular system while removing unwanted plaque;
5) restore visual accommodation to its youthful level; and
6) many other things that my aging mind has long since forgotten.


Human growth hormone does many of those things. Sure, I'd love it! Though not in a competitive situation where others would be hurt by my actions. Until then, we have :coffee: .
Regards, VB

meldyck
October 7th, 2007, 06:21 PM
Human growth hormone does many of those things. Sure, I'd love it! Though not in a competitive situation where others would be hurt by my actions. Until then, we have :coffee: .
Regards, VB

What you say is true. However, there are notable side effects for HGH. My hypothetical drug or drugs have no side effects. They just return you to your 20-year-old self, except that you would have the advantage of having lived many more years.

One then might be able to counter the saying that youth is wasted on the young...

Leonard Jansen
October 7th, 2007, 06:54 PM
Would YOU, if you could, take this drug knowing that it would enhance your performance relative to your non-using competitors?

Easy answer: Yes, I would take it and then request that I be allowed to swim the open water events (I don't really "do" pool...) that I love, but then request that race management strike my result. I get to swim, they get my money to support their event/charity, no one is displaced or loses an award and I'm not deluding myself or my competition.

-LBJ

newmastersswimmer
October 7th, 2007, 08:49 PM
I'm already taking them....but I can't divulge the details without having to kill you guys...sorry. Its all part of my master plan to one day rule the entire universe (Some 4-6 billion years down the road). :D

Allen Stark
October 7th, 2007, 10:12 PM
Interesting question.It is of course hypothetical,as nothing that is strong enough to have effects is strong enough to have side effects.There is a "drug" that is like that for men "of a certain age",testosterone.At my last physical(I'm 58) my testosterone levels were with in normal limits,but if the weren't I'd feel completely justified even though in those circumstances it would be "performance enhancing.":cane:

swimr4life
October 8th, 2007, 07:37 AM
So is taking vitamins, eating right, avoiding stress, taking hormone replacement therapy etc.... "cheating"? They are "performance enhancing". I don't feel that it is inherrently wrong to do something that might make you feel better and have a better quality life! Your life and your health are much more important than how you are going to perform in a swim meet! If I had to choose between Estrogen and competing....you better believe I'd pick the Estrogen in a heartbeat!

newmastersswimmer
October 8th, 2007, 08:45 PM
So is taking vitamins, eating right, avoiding stress, taking hormone replacement therapy etc.... "cheating"? They are "performance enhancing". I don't feel that it is inherrently wrong to do something that might make you feel better and have a better quality life! Your life and your health are much more important than how you are going to perform in a swim meet! If I had to choose between Estrogen and competing....you better believe I'd pick the Estrogen in a heartbeat!



I totally agree Beth! You can never have to much Estrogen is what I have always said LOL! Maybe if the there were a little more Estrogen and a little less Testosterone in the world, we might not be trying to kill one another all the time over every little disagreement we encounter? Just a thought that is all....No need to get into a heated debate about it or anything....remember...control the testosterone levels guys o.k. LOL!

swimr4life
October 9th, 2007, 12:40 AM
Hey....I'm out of Estrogen and I have a gun...watch out buddy! :duel:

jim clemmons
October 9th, 2007, 01:08 PM
Would YOU, if you could, take this drug knowing that it would enhance your performance relative to your non-using competitors? Or would you choose to live out your life aging in the completely natural way?

Any other takers out there?

Yes, I probably would but I think it would be in the asterisk category.

Performance enhancement is not so important, give me life extension.

newmastersswimmer
October 9th, 2007, 01:14 PM
Hey....I'm out of Estrogen and I have a gun...watch out buddy! :duel:


Hey Now.....Its not my fault about what happened on the field last Saturday LOL! (Sorry Beth....but I just had to slip that one in.....only jesting a bit now!...I still love you!)

The Fortress
October 9th, 2007, 02:10 PM
Yes, I probably would but I think it would be in the asterisk category.

Performance enhancement is not so important, give me life extension.

Me too, Jim! Sign me right up, Mel. Sign me right up for that estrogen too, Beth. I'm doing prolotherapy too, which probably falls in this category. Who wouldn't want to live a long healthy life, wholly apart from the racing benefits?

Rob Copeland
October 9th, 2007, 02:47 PM
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of smart?
-- Source Unknown

Blackbeard's Peg
October 9th, 2007, 02:53 PM
1) increase the flexibility of connective and cushioning tissue in and around joints;
Considering my current ligament situation, sign me up

2) reverse bone density loss; considering previous broken wrist situation, sign me up

3) restore hormonal flows to their youthful levels;ask the blue muppet

4) increase flexibility in the vascular system while removing unwanted plaque;thankfully, knock on wood, nothing too bad yet. if this is preventative, sign me up!

5) restore visual accommodation to its youthful level; It would be nice not to have to run back to my gear to find my glasses to check out the on-deck eye candy (read: blue muppet)


Since this is not a "performance enhancing" drug (sounds more like performance enabling), in short, Mel, SIGN ME UP! Insurance will cover this, right?

The Fortress
October 9th, 2007, 03:08 PM
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of smart?
-- Source Unknown

We're already smart. We're masters swimmers.

Muppet: You need some prolo, dude. See Aug. 7, 2007 NYT Personal Health section, "Injections to Kick-Start Tissue Repair." Even the Mayo Clinic now says it may help with chronic ligament/tendon pain. (P.S. Blue Muppet is way too young and cute for that other stuff.)

Slowswim
October 10th, 2007, 01:08 PM
Remember you're going to need a double dose: one for you and one for your significant other. Who wants to be all buff and married to a :cane:?
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BillS
October 11th, 2007, 12:25 PM
Who wants to be all buff and married to a ?


The kind of spouse who loves his or her mate for who he or she is, not what he or she looks like?

Slowswim
October 11th, 2007, 03:07 PM
The kind of spouse who loves his or her mate for who he or she is, not what he or she looks like?

Oh Bill, That was no fun!:bump: