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Warren
October 12th, 2007, 12:16 PM
My backstroke is so piss poor that I'm faster at breaststroke than I am at backstroke. I'm swimming 25 back at the sprint classic in about 2 weeks, so I need to figure out how to swim it preety soon. If anyone has any advice for me on backstroke I would love to hear it becasue I'm trying to win that fastest man award at the classic and I have a feeling that backstroke is going to prevent me from doing so. I went a 15.2 in meters yesterday. That time is not going help me at all. My stroke is sub-par, my underwaters are weak, and my finish is sketchy becase there are no backstroke flags at the pool I swim at so I never get a chance to practice it. I know how to swim it but I just can't do it and I'm not good at it. The 25 backstroke is going to be an adventure for me at the classic. But if anyone has any tips for me I would appreciate it.

hofffam
October 12th, 2007, 02:13 PM
The answer for me unfortunately is SLOWLY. My backstroke is only slightly faster than my breaststroke. I see no reason for backstroke to even exist. The only good thing about it is breathing whenever I want to.

A bit more seriously though....I have been working on it with the help of my coach. And for me the biggest issue has been a poor catch and poor follow through on the stroke. Arm position in the air and entry is relatively easy to fix. Poor head position causes huge problems - head up causes butt down.

There are drills for all of them but I can't describe them easily.

pwolf66
October 12th, 2007, 02:32 PM
15.2 for meters converts to about 13.7 for yards. A pretty good time but there are so many little things that add up on a 25.

- Are you getting a good coil on the start?
- What does your entry off the start look like? Are your hands cutting a hole that your shoulders and hips follow? Or are your shoulders hitting the water first?
_ Are you getting your arms back fast enough?
- Are you hitting the right depth off the start? My goal is to hit a depth of about 2.5-3 feet after the start. But the right depth for you might be different.
- How strong and frequent are your SDKs?
- When do you surface?
- Are you transitioning from SDK to stroke at the right point or are you too deep/shallow?
- Are you driving into the wall?
- Are you consistent in your stroke count from flag to wall?

Just some of the million little things that add up to the perfect sprint.

Paul

The Fortress
October 12th, 2007, 03:10 PM
Can't fix something in 2 weeks. If your underwaters were better, I'd say nail the start, stay under for 15 meters and fake the rest. You can't go that slow, you're strong. Do you have a good start? Can you find another pool to practice finishes in? You need to know that stroke count so you can barrel into the wall no hold barred. What about a wicked fast kick?

What's the problem with your stroke do you think? Backstroke is all about rotation and rhythm. I think drills are the best way to fix the problems, but in two weeks? Long term project.

Just use your strength and hope that Clay doesn't enter the meet. Of course, you've got Jeff Roddin there too ... but he's not a breaststroker.

SwimStud
October 12th, 2007, 03:12 PM
My backstroke is so piss poor that I'm faster at breaststroke than I am at backstroke. I'm swimming 25 back at the sprint classic in about 2 weeks, so I need to figure out how to swim it preety soon. If anyone has any advice for me on backstroke I would love to hear it becasue I'm trying to win that fastest man award at the classic and I have a feeling that backstroke is going to prevent me from doing so. I went a 15.2 in meters yesterday. That time is not going help me at all. My stroke is sub-par, my underwaters are weak, and my finish is sketchy becase there are no backstroke flags at the pool I swim at so I never get a chance to practice it. I know how to swim it but I just can't do it and I'm not good at it. The 25 backstroke is going to be an adventure for me at the classic. But if anyone has any tips for me I would appreciate it.

I could enter it and make you look good...

Warren
October 12th, 2007, 05:21 PM
Can't fix something in 2 weeks. If your underwaters were better, I'd say nail the start, stay under for 15 meters and fake the rest. You can't go that slow, you're strong. Do you have a good start? Can you find another pool to practice finishes in? You need to know that stroke count so you can barrel into the wall no hold barred. What about a wicked fast kick?

What's the problem with your stroke do you think? Backstroke is all about rotation and rhythm. I think drills are the best way to fix the problems, but in two weeks? Long term project.

Just use your strength and hope that Clay doesn't enter the meet. Of course, you've got Jeff Roddin there too ... but he's not a breaststroker.

yeah I guess it is long term but I don't ever race backstroke or the IM so I never practice backstroke but I'm just hoping for just one solid lap. I looked at the results from the past sprint classics and I think I can beat Clay Britt in free and breast and maybe fly but definatly not back. However if I get like 5th or 6th in back thats not going to help me. They do an average of the finishes right? But hopfully I can out touch some people or surprise myself like I did today in practice. I went a top scm time in the 50 breast without a block, 32.40, that coverts to a 29.19. My best scy time is a 28.33. I looking for a top time at the classic. It should be a fun meet.

The Fortress
October 12th, 2007, 05:35 PM
yeah I guess it is long term but I don't ever race backstroke or the IM so I never practice backstroke but I'm just hoping for just one solid lap. I looked at the results from the past sprint classics and I think I can beat Clay Britt in free and breast and maybe fly but definatly not back. However if I get like 5th or 6th in back thats not going to help me. They do an average of the finishes right? But hopfully I can out touch some people or surprise myself like I did today in practice. I went a top scm time in the 50 breast without a block, 32.40, that coverts to a 29.19. My best scy time is a 28.33. I looking for a top time at the classic. It should be a fun meet.

You know, I'm not sure. I thought they added up all 4 25s and the lowest total was declared the "fastest." If so, that would be better for you.

There are some fast breaststrokers to help push you in the 50 BR. But not Wally Dicks -- torn RC. You should do well. It is a fun meet, pretty fast pool. So you should get some good times.

Good luck in your quest!

Warren
October 12th, 2007, 07:35 PM
yeah I hope it's an average or else I'm screwed.

islandsox
October 12th, 2007, 07:39 PM
Warren, you are already talking yourself out of this race. I wish you had asked sooner!! There is no way you can possibly make stroke changes this late; you have to go for the start and turns and not having backstroke flags shouldn't be a problem. I used to have this problem and I would step off the count on the deck and put a chair or big towel on deck so when I glanced over and saw it, I started my stroke count to the wall. And this can be pretty darn accurate. You just have to look for that marker.

Good Luck!

donna

Warren
October 12th, 2007, 07:46 PM
Warren, you are already talking yourself out of this race. I wish you had asked sooner!! There is no way you can possibly make stroke changes this late; you have to go for the start and turns and not having backstroke flags shouldn't be a problem. I used to have this problem and I would step off the count on the deck and put a chair or big towel on deck so when I glanced over and saw it, I started my stroke count to the wall. And this can be pretty darn accurate. You just have to look for that marker.

Good Luck!

donna

yeah I look for the white on the lane line becasue the last 5 meters of the line is solid white, but its still kind of tricky and its not the same as having flags.

islandsox
October 12th, 2007, 07:52 PM
Warren, I don't get it, are you saying that the outside deck is marked? or are you talking about the lane line underneath you. Hey, why not walk off the approx distance on the deck and put a huge stuffed animal (oops, you're a guy, you wouldn't do that), or a deck chair or something you can see while swimming; you only have to glance over to the right or left depending on where you put it. I used to always walk off the distance on deck and place something noticeable at that 15 meter mark and I trained accordingly. Did I get your comment right?

shark
October 12th, 2007, 08:46 PM
I do not know your situation. 13.6 is pretty fast. That is 27.2. If I follow. I have been pushing this 1/2 body rotation backstroke at my Y. Seems to work. Rotate the shoulders while swimming but keep your feet as level as possible to create advantagious flow behind you. It takes great abs. I do not know your dryland. But to swim this way takes a lot of ab work. ALOT! I'm working with a 5 year old and having her float a bouy over her belly button while kicking backstroke. Damndest thing you ever saw. Bouy just floats over her belly button as she kicks flat. Just stays there, all the way down the pool. I tried doing it. Can't. Takes great abs. At what age do abs go soft? Mine are there somewhere, just hidden. Swim on your side from the waist up. Kick flat. Just like a boat. Any takers? Come on, I can take it.

The Fortress
October 13th, 2007, 12:42 PM
Warren: I am told that they determine the fastest man "by placing." So win three and place as high as you can in backstroke. Just go for a great start.

bud
October 13th, 2007, 01:24 PM
... I'm swimming 25 back at the sprint classic in about 2 weeks, ... The 25 backstroke is going to be an adventure for me at the classic. But if anyone has any tips for me I would appreciate it.

reach far into it for the catch, and keep your head back (in a comfortable neutral position).

yeah, 2 weeks is pretty short notice. but just try and relax into it.

have fun.

TomBrooklyn
October 14th, 2007, 01:24 PM
On the stroke, the first part of the motion should be like arm wrestling and the second part of the motion should be like throwing something at your feet.

That's the way it was explained to me anyway, from TI.

The Fortress
October 14th, 2007, 01:43 PM
On the stroke, the first part of the motion should be like arm wrestling and the second part of the motion should be like throwing something at your feet.

That's the way it was explained to me anyway, from TI.

Arm wrestling? I don't get that at all.

Warren:

The scoring is either 5-4-3-2-1 for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th place OR 3-2-1 and they only score 3 places. My coach said that, unfortunately, the scoring stystem disadvantages those with one bad stroke. Although more typically (as for me), people tend to suffer from a poor breaststroke.