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Syd
October 16th, 2007, 01:40 AM
I have realised, in order to get quicker, I have to do some weight training. I have been putting it off for long enough.

The reason I haven't is quite simple: I hate going to the gym, particularly by myself. I remember back in High School I had a friend who was into weight training and we trained together for a while. That was fun and we used to spur one another on. I just haven't been able to work up the enthusiasm for weght training despite the fact that I bought myself a pair of dumbells and despite the fact that the pool I go to has a gym attached to it. (I have only poked my head in once - the day that I signed up for the gym)! However, enthusiam issues aside, I have now realised, I have to do it; like it or not.

My question is: When is the best time to do weight training?

I am rather fortunate in that I have about 1 and a half to 2 hours of training time each day. (Usually mid afternoon except on Sat and Sun when I train in the morning). I usually spend an hour and a half in the pool each day.

If I were to apportion some of that time to weight training how much should I give over? Should it be at the beginning or the end of a practice? And how many times a week?


Sincerely
Syd

jnbaker
October 16th, 2007, 09:43 AM
Both my high school and college coaches always said that you should swim tired, and do the weight lifting first. Plus, you are less likely to incur any weight lifting injuries if you do that first. I should mention that I graduated from college 18 years ago though - I am curious to hear if anyone has more recent information.

Are you going to use free weights? If so, I lift alone, and find dumbells easier/safer. You don't have to worry about getting stuck under a straight bar when you bench with dumbells.

Warren
October 16th, 2007, 10:24 AM
lift right before practice

geochuck
October 16th, 2007, 10:30 AM
I posted this in another thread http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jasonlezak1.htm

Tactics
October 16th, 2007, 12:36 PM
Hi Syd..

Check out www.exercisedb.com/ (http://www.exercisedb.com/) for different selections

I spend about 20-25 minutes on stretching,shoulders,back,core,and legs these day for every 45-60 minutes in the water..lighter weights..I hit those prior to the swim w/o..you can experiment to determine what works best for you...we're all different..

Leonard Jansen
October 16th, 2007, 01:57 PM
Tudor Bompa, one of the gurus of modern training theory/periodization, says that you should weight train on your harder training days and do it after your regular workout. The idea is that it decreases the amount of time/reps/etc for the weights since you are already tired and it means that if you do an easy/hard type of day-to-day program, you actually will get a recovery day. Good form and not over-doing it (too much, too heavy) are key, however.

-LBJ

swimmieAvsFan
October 16th, 2007, 02:27 PM
Tudor Bompa, one of the gurus of modern training theory/periodization, says that you should weight train on your harder training days and do it after your regular workout. The idea is that it decreases the amount of time/reps/etc for the weights since you are already tired and it means that if you do an easy/hard type of day-to-day program, you actually will get a recovery day. Good form and not over-doing it (too much, too heavy) are key, however.

-LBJ

ah ha (says SwimmieAvsFan as the lightbulb goes on!)!!! that would explain our training plan at PSU... i could never figure out why, on the days that we had AM and PM practice, plus drylands, we then had to go lift. and then had only one practice the following day... i guess the above theory is what our coaches and strength/condition guys were operating under...

thanks LBJ! :wave:

hofffam
October 16th, 2007, 02:39 PM
I haven't read any clearly decisive articles regarding which you should do first, weights or swimming, if you must do both on the same day. My own opinion is that you should do first whichever is the higher priority. My reasoning is that I would be less tired for whichever I do first.

I added weights to my routine this fall for the first time. I do NOT do weights and swimming on the same day. I eliminated one day of swimming (Saturday) and replaced it with weights. I use to take Wednesday off; now it is a weights day. So I swim Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday.

swimshark
October 16th, 2007, 02:56 PM
My spinning instroctor told us this:

Lift weight before cardio to bulk up
Lift weights after cardio to lose weight.

I lift at the gym/pool after spin class on Mondays. I swim Tues, Thurs and Sat and lift at home on Wed and some Fridays (if I don't run). It's not huge but it has helped.

Alison

david.margrave
October 16th, 2007, 03:08 PM
I lift weights on alternate days of swimming. But I do 30 minutes of cardio (treadmill, etc) at my target HR after lifting weights.

One theory I've heard is if you do the cardio first, you'll be too tired to lift.

Slowswim
October 17th, 2007, 10:26 AM
There an adaptation to the usual pyramid approach to lifting. Learned this in Special Ops. Its designed to increase Power over strength. It will also get you a great workout in about 20 minutes if you are short on time.

Pick about 7 exercises; I do: flat bench, incline bench, decline bench, Lat pull down, seated row, curls, and Tricep curls. The plan is to get as many reps as possible in two minutes. Minimum is 25 and max is 40. Lower the weight if you can't get 25; increase it once you can do 40. You can take as many breaks as you want to. The rest period between exercises is only what it takes to get to the next exercise.

The Fortress
October 17th, 2007, 10:32 AM
My spinning instroctor told us this:

Lift weight before cardio to bulk up
Lift weights after cardio to lose weight.

Alison

I've heard the opposite! I've been told that lifting first revs up the metabolism and that you then burn more calories when you switch to the aerobic exercise.

Not supposed to do RC exercises prior to swimming or you will be swimming with fatigued RC muscles. I tend to lift on days when I'm not swimming as well. But, usually, I just squeeze it in when convenient. If doing both, I'd lift first and then hit the pool. But I'm not lifting heavy weights and focusing on core work, so it's still fine to catch a quick workout after.

nkfrench
October 17th, 2007, 11:03 AM
For the past 6 months I have been doing a weight training session 1x/week. My coach says that I look a lot stronger in the water. I do a couple sets of 12 reps as heavy as I can manage. After I finish I find it very difficult to swim. I have no idea how others can. I will stretch but I am still too pumped up/stiff and cannot maintain a semblance of form even for freestyle. So that is part of why I lift only 1x/week as I don't swim that day; I do sit on a stationary bike first on those days, yawn. The weights are at a fitness club and there is too much transition time for swimming first. Protocol is to have presentable appearance w/ dry hair. My Masters group also does drylands 2 days (no weights but medicine balls, bodyweight exercises) and we do that before swimming. I still find myself needing extra stretching as part of the warmup to get my lats ready for pool use.

nkfrench
October 17th, 2007, 11:17 AM
Many years ago our team's head USAS coach made general recommendations for a weight lifting plan. He recommended a cyclic approach, alternating plans A & B each 3 weeks:

A: Lift 3x/week. Choose a varied set of exercises. Do 3 sets of 12 reps, as heavy as you can manage for 8-12 reps. Vary exercises slightly -- such as each workout vary grip width, incline vs decline bench press, etc.

B: Lift 3x/week. Choose a varied set of exercises. Do each one for 3 sets of 1-2 minutes with a weight that you can manage AT YOUR DESIRED STROKE RATE. Some sports watches will have a metronome/tempo beep.

Plan B used to just kill me, plus the fitness center staff & other customers got annoyed at the beeps and clanking. :)

hofffam
October 17th, 2007, 01:42 PM
Weight training is really an anerobic activity. Even though your heart rate may go up and you might breathe a bit hard - it is nothing like swiming 10x100 free on an interval that gives you 10 secs rest.

Weight training with enough weight to limit you to 10-12 reps will deplete the glycogen in your muscles. The increased blood flow that creates the "pump" will make you feel tight, although it isn't really tightness.

So if you swim after weights, you will probably not swim well at all - especially if you want to swim fast (which needs glycogen).

Flow Phaser
October 17th, 2007, 09:27 PM
B: Lift 3x/week. Choose a varied set of exercises. Do each one for 3 sets of 1-2 minutes with a weight that you can manage AT YOUR DESIRED STROKE RATE. Some sports watches will have a metronome/tempo beep.

I really am a big believer in this concept. I don't know that I've read any science to back it up, but fatigue through repetition at firing rate, especially the auxiliaries, seems to make sense. All the Hugos telling you you're not getting any benefits from your approach is the one major drawback, however.

:rofl:

Allen Stark
October 17th, 2007, 10:03 PM
I lift before I swim. I find if I swim first my muscles are sore the next day and I feel tight.I go straight from the weight room to the pool. I do a reasonably long warm up in the pool before any hard sets,and I don't sprint after weights as it is too hard for me to keep good form.