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spudfin
November 13th, 2007, 09:09 AM
Good Morning
It has been suggested to me to incorporate a T-30 swim into my overall workout plans. Has anyone used this swim as a basis for setting up their workouts? What has been your experience? Any thoughts welcome.
Regards
Spudfin

dorothyrde
November 13th, 2007, 09:17 AM
Do you have someone that can time and count for you. It is helpful information, but it would be hard to do by yourself, not impossible, but hard.

Blackbeard's Peg
November 13th, 2007, 09:28 AM
Yeah, I last did one of these years ago. I'd always lose count. We'd do them a handful of times during the year to see where everyone was with their aerobic and fitness levels. Obviously the goal was to do more laps every time we did that as the season went on.
I'd say you can find better things to do with a half-hour of swimming than that.

SwimStud
November 13th, 2007, 09:41 AM
Good Morning
It has been suggested to me to incorporate a T-30 swim into my overall workout plans. Has anyone used this swim as a basis for setting up their workouts? What has been your experience? Any thoughts welcome.
Regards
Spudfin

Spud

You can also do a T-15 if you can't get help to count etc. T-30 is probably a bit better but I found the T-15 pretty spot on for me.

There are some workouts that are based off of what your T-scores are (Fitness Swimming by Emmett Smith), but not based around a T-swim each workout. If you T-swim each time, you're just basically doing a long swim, which is fine is distance swimming or keeping fit is your aim. If you're using T-swims to measure your fitness you should leave a period between T-swims or the changes will be minimal each time.

smontanaro
November 13th, 2007, 10:39 AM
There are always the 3000-yard (in the fall) and one-hour (in January) postal swims. Those can be helpful to just your overall fitness level.

Skip

nkfrench
November 13th, 2007, 10:59 AM
We did them a while back to identify our aerobic threshhold. That is the fastest pace we could maintain without building lactate and helps you identify aerobic vs non aerobic paces.

My own experience was that after 20 minutes my forearms would go numb. That meant that I was not relaxing my arms during the recovery, not getting enough circulation for best results. Thought I was a distance swimmer.

Pretty boring set, and I don't see that happening much any more with the coaches we've had.

Swimmer Bill
November 13th, 2007, 11:06 AM
I did one in 2003 as part of the inaugural 30-Minute Swim, a fitness event developed by the USMS Fitness Committee. My total was 2575 yards.

Information about the 30-Minute Swim is available online at:

http://www.usms.org/fitness/content/swim30

gull
November 13th, 2007, 01:04 PM
We swam a 1000 for time in practice and used the pace per 100 as an estimate of our anaerobic threshold (En2). To calculate En3 we subtracted 7% from that pace. I think it is reasonably accurate and easier for Masters swimmers than a T-30.

Kevin in MD
November 13th, 2007, 03:19 PM
There's a whole host of physiological knowledge published and for aerobic system training it is all based on T-30s. If you don't have a T-30 or an estimate of one then you are overlooking a large aspect of how to get faster. Now, the only time I will usually do a t-30 is during the 3,000 postal. Other than that I will do a 200 max and 500 max and find critical velocity. I will use critical velocity as a substitute for t-30. It's not a bad option.

gull
November 13th, 2007, 03:55 PM
There's a whole host of physiological knowledge published and for aerobic system training it is all based on T-30s.


The problem is that there is not a lot of information regarding the training of Masters athletes.

david.margrave
November 13th, 2007, 04:14 PM
Does it have to be swimming? A treadmill at the health club will tell you how far you've gone in 30 minutes. Of course running is not swimming, but both are aerobic exercises.

Lightning
November 13th, 2007, 04:35 PM
I just did my first 3000 Postal. My approach was to do 30 X 100 on interval; I learned a lot about my 50 and 100 pacing and how to keep my pace when my body was fatigued. Are there any other approaches for this type of competition?

knelson
November 13th, 2007, 05:44 PM
Does it have to be swimming? A treadmill at the health club will tell you how far you've gone in 30 minutes. Of course running is not swimming, but both are aerobic exercises.

I guess this might help gauge your aerobic conditioning if you did it periodically, but one of the main purposes of the T-30 is to measure your anaerobic threshold. As gull mentioned, you can use your 100 pace from the T-30 to determine what sendoffs you should be going on for various types of sets. Unless you're a very slow runner, I don't think you'd want to use your running pace for this!

notsofast
November 13th, 2007, 08:43 PM
The T-30, IMHO, is good for finding a training interval (see Kevin Williams workouts). However, I can't imagine swimming it every week or so - too tough to count laps.
Why don't you swim one to find your training interval, do about six months of interval training, then do another. I think you'll find (as I did) that your T-30 will drop - which is the point, after all.

jaegermeister
November 13th, 2007, 09:37 PM
I just did both the 6000, then the 3000 postal, in that order. Hadn't really trained well for them, just had an opportunity and I've always wanted to give them a go.
Then one day last week the coach unannounced had us do a T-30. Interestingly, my distance at 30 minutes was very similar in both the 3000 and the T-30. The coach then gave us suggested intervals for distance up to 1000 at a range of effort levels. I think this is the real value of doing the T-30.

spudfin
November 14th, 2007, 09:47 AM
What is a 3000 postal?
Regards
Spudfin

smontanaro
November 14th, 2007, 10:37 AM
USMS sponsors a series of long distance pool swims called postal swims because you swim them at a local pool then mail in the results. The one-hour swim is held in January, the 5k and 10k long course swims between mid-May and mid-September, and the 3000 and 6000 yard short course swims between mid-September and mid-November. Full details on the Long Distance Championships (http://www.usms.org/longdist/ldchamps.php) page. I just completed the full series for the second time. I generally do the one-hour postal each January.

Skip Montanaro

Kevin in MD
November 14th, 2007, 11:33 AM
The problem is that there is not a lot of information regarding the training of Masters athletes.

Yes, wish there was more. In terms of using T-30s to develop endurance and the physiological changes brought about by different types of training I *believe* that it would all be the same. That there is no difference in terms of mitochondria development etc between a 20 year old swimmer and a 40 year old masters swimmer. It's what I believe, but have no solid evidence to back it up.

I could be proven wrong tomorrow, and would be glad to know someone is doing that work.

As for the practical ends of it, the fact that masters swim a lot less than typical age group swimmers being studied, or that we will pretty well do what we damm well please, that is an area that remains very much unexplored.

osterber
November 14th, 2007, 04:17 PM
I think the last time I did a T-30 for masters was with a kickboard during workout. I think we did it as part of our lead-up to the hour swim one year a bunch of years back.

-Rick

david.margrave
November 24th, 2007, 04:02 PM
We did a 15 minute swim in practice last week. I did 1150 yards but I had the benefit of drafting off a big guy in front. Ignoring the drafting benefit for now that would work out to 1:18.26/100 yd. I'm able to complete sets of 100s comfortably on a 1:30 interval or 1:25 with some discomfort, although we rarely do sets of more than 5.

In meets I seem to die off worse than others on the 1500 compared to the 400. For example I tied one lady in her 20s in the 400, but in the 1500 she beat me by about 90 seconds.

A triathlon coach who swims with our group sometimes gave me some different advice on preparing for the 1500 or 1650. He said to use whatever interval I needed in order to maintain the pace for my desired time in the event. For example 15x100 at race pace of 1:15, and take whatever rest I needed to maintain that pace (1:30, 1:35, or whatever).

smontanaro
November 24th, 2007, 04:09 PM
A triathlon coach who swims with our group sometimes gave me some different advice on preparing for the 1500 or 1650. He said to use whatever interval I needed in order to maintain the pace for my desired time in the event. For example 15x100 at race pace of 1:15, and take whatever rest I needed to maintain that pace (1:30, 1:35, or whatever).

And as you get into better shape reduce the rest.

Skip Montanaro