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ande
November 17th, 2007, 10:40 PM
FINA/ARENA Swimming World Cup Berlin, Germany Nov 17 & 18 2007
http://www.omegatiming.com/swimming/racearchives/2007/berlin2007/index.htm

ande
November 18th, 2007, 11:40 AM
new WR in the 50 SCM fr 20.93
Stefan Nystrand

randal bal WC record in 50 BK 23.33

RecreationalSwimmer
November 19th, 2007, 03:03 AM
new WR in the 50 SCM fr 20.93
Stefan Nystrand

He's windmilling like Klim, de Bruijn and Evans. Same event, same guy, new 100 m short course meters world record 45.83 s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHEjOjK2Obg (100 m)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SldwSStnCY (100 m)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK3HSPav2w8 (50 m)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAb3VPQUd1g (100 m long course, second fastest ever, 47.91 s)

knelson
November 19th, 2007, 10:42 AM
I don't think I've ever seen quite as dramatic a windmill as Nystrand uses. If you weren't paying attention you'd think he was swimming backstroke. He keep his arms almost straight underwater, too. It seems like this would put a heck of a lot of stress on his shoulders. Sure can't argue with the results!

The Fortress
November 19th, 2007, 10:47 AM
I don't think I've ever seen quite as dramatic a windmill as Nystrand uses. If you weren't paying attention you'd think he was swimming backstroke. He keep his arms almost straight underwater, too. It seems like this would put a heck of a lot of stress on his shoulders. Sure can't argue with the results!

It wasn't even straight arm free. His wrists were way above his shoulders in more of a windmill. It did look almost like backstroke from that one angle on the first video. You'd think it would stress the labrum; maybe that's why he only trains 3k per day.

But all the sprinters looked pretty straight armed.

Some definite brute force there.

thewookiee
November 19th, 2007, 11:30 AM
His arms aren't completly straight underwater but pretty close. At first, I thought he would only be good short course, then I remembered this is the same guy that went :47.91 LONG COURSE.

It may not be the prettiest stroke but it works for him. Somewhere, I remember David Marsh talking about a recovery like his and straightier arms underwater too.

swimr4life
November 19th, 2007, 11:41 AM
That's one uuuugly stroke....but he sure makes it work. Amazingly fast. :bow:

The Fortress
November 19th, 2007, 11:51 AM
That's one uuuugly stroke....but he sure makes it work. Amazingly fast. :bow:

It must be intentional though, right? He must think he swims faster with the windmill. Could he?

Frank Thompson
November 21st, 2007, 09:43 AM
This meet is going to be on TV on Thanksgiving Day on the FSN from 4:00 to 5:00 PM Eastern time.

The Fortress
November 21st, 2007, 10:55 PM
This meet is going to be on TV on Thanksgiving Day on the FSN from 4:00 to 5:00 PM Eastern time.

Thanks for the tip, Frank. I will be DVR this, as I get FSN!!

Slowswim
November 22nd, 2007, 07:53 PM
I was watching the breast stroke and it looked like they did a fly kick with the first underwater pull. Is that legal?

smontanaro
November 22nd, 2007, 08:34 PM
Yup. New in the past couple of years. Legal in USMS now as well.

Skip

Czarazuk
November 23rd, 2007, 01:39 AM
Watching accomplished swimmers is fascinating, but there is more to gain than entertainment. Whether it is the starts, swimming styles, turns, or finishes, there is a lot to learn by watching the various races. For example, the underwater shots in the turns are great for seeing dolphin kicks, and it is good to see the transitions between strokes in the IM's. Anyway, as someone that is getting into swimming again after 16 years, watching this was very educational.

Slowswim
November 23rd, 2007, 08:28 AM
What is with the guy that keeps his arms almost complete straight during the freestyle recovery. It looked like he was doing the backstroke and everyone else was doing the crawl.

That can't be good for his shoulders, but its fast!
:notworthy:

Slowswim
November 23rd, 2007, 08:29 AM
Yup. New in the past couple of years. Legal in USMS now as well.

Skip

Is there a limit to how many fly kicks or how far you can travel underwater in the breast stroke?

smontanaro
November 23rd, 2007, 11:57 AM
One kick before or during the underwater pull.

S

thewookiee
November 23rd, 2007, 12:49 PM
What is with the guy that keeps his arms almost complete straight during the freestyle recovery. It looked like he was doing the backstroke and everyone else was doing the crawl.

That can't be good for his shoulders, but its fast!
:notworthy:


It's one of those details of "this works for him" Is that style good for everyone, no but neither is the traditional "high elbow" recovery.

Besides, the longest he will race is 200 meters, which he did on a relay at the Swedish nationals a few days ago.

John Nabor on the broadcast called it ugly. But as you said it is fast and it does work for him. So to each his own...I think he has a great stroke to watch.

The Fortress
November 23rd, 2007, 11:34 PM
It's one of those details of "this works for him" Is that style good for everyone, no but neither is the traditional "high elbow" recovery.

Besides, the longest he will race is 200 meters, which he did on a relay at the Swedish nationals a few days ago.

John Nabor on the broadcast called it ugly. But as you said it is fast and it does work for him. So to each his own...I think he has a great stroke to watch.


I think it's one of those "what works for you" issues as well. Yet, most straight arm freeestylers are constantly corrected to lift their elbows or risk injury. (Although I will say that one of my former teammates was changed into a straight arm freestyler ...) Most people, like Nabor seem to think it's "ugly" and "brutish." But it was blazingly fast and powerful. I noticed Schoeman had a pretty straight arm free, especially his left arm. His starts were amazing to watch.

I still wonder if Nystrand intentionally adopted this stroke. Does the windmill or straight arm free on recovery provide a more rapid stroke rate? It certainly seems like many sprinters have a pretty straight recovery ...

Torres doesn't use this of course and is always referred to as having "perfect" technique. It still seems like she should breathe less on a 50 though. That has to save fractions of a second?

thewookiee
November 24th, 2007, 01:53 PM
Hi Fort...hope ya'll had a good thanksgiving.


I dont think the straight arm recovery causes the injury...not doing it correctly is what leads to injury. A swimmer sees someone doing somethign and just mimicks the motion, without being taught how to do it correctly...that is where people get hurt.

I know certain coaches that didnt like Mel Stewarts side breathing in fly...i loved it...it made him stand out from the rest, it worked from him and I thought it was a thing of beauty.

So, people should try it before knocking it.

Slowswim
November 26th, 2007, 01:59 PM
One kick before or during the underwater pull.

S
I saw one of the ladies do a flutter kick. How many of those do you get?

TRYM_Swimmer
November 26th, 2007, 02:20 PM
I saw one of the ladies do a flutter kick. How many of those do you get?

None, until a potential world champion, probably non-American, breaststroker does it so it is "hard" to judge. Then it will become legal very quickly!!

SIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slowswim
November 26th, 2007, 03:13 PM
None, until a potential world champion, probably non-American, breaststroker does it so it is "hard" to judge. Then it will become legal very quickly!!

SIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was watching this weekend on my DVR. With my first ever Mswim meetin coming up in 3 weeks, I was using SloMo (the DVR not my swim style) to study their strokes and saw the flutter kick in the underwater camera. You may be right because I remember seeing the fly kick a couple of years back by a male japanese swimmer. The anouncers caught it but the judges (who don't have an underwater camera) missed it.

thewookiee
November 26th, 2007, 03:15 PM
If they are going to change the breastroke rules...let's make it legal to use a fly kick the whole way...for those of us that are horrible at the actual stroke.

Come on...if people can use the breastroke kick in fly...why can't non-breastrokers use the fly kick then? We could call it "breastfrog"