PDA

View Full Version : Roll left or right in flipturn????



rtodd
November 24th, 2007, 08:36 PM
I would do a poll but don't know how.

My pool does not circle swim. I have my own lane. When I learned to flip turn I roll to the right i.e. when I roll I will be looking left when I break out. When I occasionally circle swim, I find this to be aqward and have difficulty heading to the right side of the lane on pushoff.

My question is, do coaches prefer teaching one over the other?

tomtopo
November 24th, 2007, 08:53 PM
I taught flip-turns for years and told swimmers after they flip just be sure your hands point in the direction you want to go (streamlined) and the feet should be at 45 degrees. Now I tell them to get off on their back and as they streamline, use the optimum free or dolphin kicks (which ever is faster) and then turn to the stomachs. We time our turns to see what kind of turn is faster, to stay as objective as possible. The turn that produces the best time is always a little different then everyone elses.

Blackbeard's Peg
November 25th, 2007, 12:28 AM
I think all that coaches prefer is that you flip straight over and push off on your back... the roll is more a comfortability and familiarity issue. I roll the opposite way you do, which, yes, is a lot more efficient for circle swimming. The blue muppet rolls the same way you do. If the two of us are going side-by-side in a workout, neither's turns are any faster than the other b/c of the roll.
I did once try to swim a workout working on my rolls the other way, and it was disasterous.
Keep doing what you're doing. If it helps, when you circle, as you're approaching the wall, cut over to the other side of the lane so that when you flip and push off, you're already on the other side of the lane and can push off straight.

dorothyrde
November 25th, 2007, 07:01 AM
I don't have a prefered side for flip turns. Whichever side is dependant on where I am in the stroke. For breast and fly, I turn left, and am akward turning right. I find a lot of coaches have trouble with that because most people turn the other way.

ande
November 25th, 2007, 10:55 AM
different swimmers do it different ways
I push off with my left side down which I think is better for counter clockwise circle swimming (cause your back is facing the oncoming swimmers) but there's many swimmers who roll to the other side and push off right arm down which means their belly is facing oncoming swimmers in the same lane

it's really about what feels best, it's the same as
being regular or goofy foot in surfing, skateboarding and snowboarding

or if you're right or left handed

ande



I would do a poll but don't know how.

My pool does not circle swim. I have my own lane. When I learned to flip turn I roll to the right i.e. when I roll I will be looking left when I break out. When I occasionally circle swim, I find this to be aqward and have difficulty heading to the right side of the lane on pushoff.

My question is, do coaches prefer teaching one over the other?

rtodd
November 25th, 2007, 02:38 PM
Just noticed Thorpe rolls my way, so maybe I won't try to change. I think for circle swimming, the other way is better because you can immediately see the lane rope and adjust to it.

A few times yesterday I almost killed the oncoming swimmers. I just don't do it enough. It sounds like the other way is preferable though.

My upper body is already rolled 60-90 deg when my feet push off. If I push off completely on my back, there is not enough momentum to roll where I want to be on breakout.

cowsvils
November 25th, 2007, 06:31 PM
I think it is more preference and comfort, especially in practice. One thing to note though, is that if you pull with your bottom arm off your streamline you get a whole lot more roll than just what you create from your core/momentum. This might tip the scales in favor of having the dominant arm down, because that would allow you to push off more on your back. It likely isn't that big of a difference, so you might as well just stick wtih what you are doing.

AnnG
November 25th, 2007, 07:24 PM
I try to practice swimming straight into the wall and straight out so that I will do that in a meet. The best way to do this when circle swimming is to cross over to the left side of the lane once the last swimming going opposite you passes, then turn on the side of the lane you will be swimming next. Also that way if you have someone drafting on you, you won't have to worry about pushing off around them (theoretically). Watch the distance swimmers at a meet sometime, they are all circling in their racing lane, just because that is the way the practice.
By the way, I roll to my left but it is probably because I am left handed.

Paul Smith
November 25th, 2007, 09:25 PM
I try to practice swimming straight into the wall and straight out so that I will do that in a meet. The best way to do this when circle swimming is to cross over to the left side of the lane once the last swimming going opposite you passes, then turn on the side of the lane you will be swimming next. Also that way if you have someone drafting on you, you won't have to worry about pushing off around them (theoretically). Watch the distance swimmers at a meet sometime, they are all circling in their racing lane, just because that is the way the practice.
By the way, I roll to my left but it is probably because I am left handed.

I would suggest practicing turns in a simulated racing situation. After or before practice when no one is in the lane try rolling to both sides an equal number of turns coming in from the middle of the lane...always take your first stroke with the lower arm and don't breathe for 2-3 strokes. Also, practice turns from a run into a dive from the side of the pool to simulate full speed/race conditions.

Redbird Alum
November 26th, 2007, 03:53 PM
All this talk of circle swimming! When I coach small fry to high school kids I try to teach them how bad circle swimming is for them, and how habitual behaviour, like circle swimming the same way all the time, impacts their competition swims.

While necessary in crowded situations, one can always help remind their swimmers just how bad a habit circling is by having them circle their sets first counter-clockwise (normal?), then the next set clockwise.

They not only "feel goofy" and mash into their friends the first few times they go opposite to the normal routine, but they start to realize just how much they have modified their in-and-out of the wall stroke and turn routine to accomodate circling. Ideally, side-by-side lane sharing is best.

Try reversing the circle in a practice for a set or two! You may be surprised at what you find/feel.

Al Black
November 26th, 2007, 07:22 PM
Ideally, side-by-side lane sharing is best.



Unfortunately we can have 20 swimmers shoehorned into 3 lanes on a Tuesday evening, sort of rules out swimming sides. As for suggesting a set swimming, "The other way round", I would welcome it (lane 2 swimmer, have to swim anticlockwise, prefer to tumble clockwise) but I suspect that the damage to lane 1 egos would be more than the club (or the coach) could bear!

Al.

craiglll@yahoo.com
November 27th, 2007, 03:59 PM
I'll go both ways. Which ever direction I think will be fun at the time.

Slowswim
November 27th, 2007, 04:18 PM
I usually go right so I can take a breath as soon as I break out. My coach tells me I need to take a stroke or two before I breathe but I taught myself to flip turn and now I can't un-learn it. :shakeshead: :help:

JimRude
November 28th, 2007, 07:17 PM
... maybe the most natural would be carrying your legs over from your "strong" breathing side to the weak side? If you breath left, then you carry your legs over to the right, and push off on your right side(?) At least, that's how a breastroker swimmin' free does it :thhbbb:

Lisa777
November 28th, 2007, 11:11 PM
I turn whichever arm is there when I get to the wall. Otherwise I would have to glide into the wall or take a short stroke to get a certain arm if I wanted to always use the same one. I never felt that circle swimming affected my ability to go straight in and out on turns in meets. ??? Never thought about it before.

I also turn left when doing breast and fly and I know I prefer to do a left bucket turn in back for IMs (and I am too old to be really comfortable with the back flip turns and prefer going to my left but will do either side.)

david.margrave
December 2nd, 2007, 06:33 PM
I roll to my right, first stroke out of the turn is with my right arm. I'm not sure how this habit evolved, maybe because this makes it easier to keep an eye on lane mates so they don't smack into me or vice versa.

funkyfish
December 3rd, 2007, 09:10 PM
I think I roll clockwise. Approaching the wall, I'll flip, and push off on my back, then dolphin kick and turn my right shoulder down, with both hands in front. I'm left handed, so I'll usually break out with my left. That is of course when I'm practicing flip turns, I'm lazy, so I do a lot of open turns. Been trying to make myself flip turn more often, but it's slow going.
:bouncing: