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Red60
November 27th, 2007, 01:05 PM
Okay, so I last swam a meet in April, and have been working out alone exclusively. Not in great shape, but eager to get started again to officially launch my season. I'm signed up to compete at a meet at Mizzou, a SCM pool that's supposed to be very nice--haven't been there yet. Signed up for 7 events, but will probably bag one.

Here's my question. I have been enjoying throwing in wild card events that I have never swum before, and this time it's the 100 breast. Last night toward the end of my workout I tried to "sprint" 100 breast, and my legs cramped up like crazy at 75. Is there a trick to this? I'm mostly a sprinter in free and fly, and my breastroke is not very speedy. Have never swam 100 breast for time in my life.

Guidance from you breaststrokers out there?

And anybody headed to Columbia this weekend?

pwolf66
November 27th, 2007, 01:23 PM
get as long as you can in the water and maximize your glide. Hit your turns as hard as you can.

How far do you travel off the turn before you break the surface? If it's less than 8 meters or so, make sure you are maintaining a tight streamline off the wall. Are you taking as long of a pullout as possible and really snapping your hands past your hips at the end?

What is your stroke count for 25m? Mine is currently 10 and I'm trying to shave that down another stroke. Are you keeping your hands at or less than shoulder width apart or are you still swimming it 'old' school and taking your hands past shoulder width?

Paul

Red60
November 27th, 2007, 01:28 PM
Paul:

Very helpful. I'll count strokes and check arm position tonight in the pool and report back.

Thanks!

ALM
November 27th, 2007, 04:19 PM
Red,

Make sure you introduce yourself to me on Saturday. And if you're worried about missing the big football game, I'm sure they'll be broadcasting it on the giant scoreboard in the aquatic center!

Anna Lea

ALM
November 27th, 2007, 06:35 PM
Here's the psych sheet for entries received through today. We'll update it again after tomorrow's entries are received.

http://community.lawrence.com/movy/2007_Mizzou_Psych.pdf


Anna Lea

Red60
November 27th, 2007, 07:32 PM
Thanks, Anna!

Allen Stark
November 28th, 2007, 07:36 PM
I agree with Paul about everything but the hands.Tara Kirk,Leisel,Hansen and Kitajima all have there hands wider than their shoulders especially Tara.How wide you go depends on if you are strong enough to insweep fast enough to not break rhythm.Just don't let your hands pull past your shoulders and make sure your recovery is a continuation of your insweep.The 100 is all about rhythm and "easy speed".REALLY work your turns and pull outs.When you get tired first kick harder before you stroke faster.Be sure to finish your kick with the feet together and finish each stroke in streamlined position.If your legs are cramping you may be rushing and overlapping the kick/pull.

pwolf66
November 28th, 2007, 08:40 PM
A good point, Allan. I guess I should have provided a little more detail on that. For most swimmers, the stroke is actually more of a scull so keeping the hands from going no wider than the shoulders is the best compromise between maximum forward propulsion and fast recovery but as in all cases YMMV.

Paul

Red60
November 29th, 2007, 12:18 PM
Allen and Paul, many thanks. I am still trying to get the hang of the "new" breastroke, and am not at all sure that I get it. There is more variability in how I swim the stroke than is ideal--something to work on.

Paul, what is the distinction you are drawing between sculling and the alternative?

I did count my strokes, and I use 10 to get down the pool after my pull out. The last time I did a 50 for time it was 41, but I am certain I can do better, especially if I figure out the whole lunging recovery thing. It sure seems exhausting to get the pull done and throw yourself forward as part of the same motion. At least it seems like that's how it's supposed to work. Am I right about that?

As a kid, breaststroke was a good stroke for me, but I got away from it, and now it seems like a foreign language!

Have to say that one of the best things about the Masters experience--and I am still a newbie, having less than a year under my belt--is the opportunity to re-invent. I will never be a backstroker, but both fly and breast are appealing as strokes to investigate after a long-ago career as a freestyle sprinter.

Anna Lea, many thanks for the psyche sheet info. I will introduce myself at the meet.

pwolf66
November 29th, 2007, 02:06 PM
Paul, what is the distinction you are drawing between sculling and the alternative?


Well, let's see if I put this in words.


The way I swam breaststroke 20+years ago was that it was a pulling motion where you would pull your hands almost in a circular/oval motion where your hands would travel about 6 inches outside of your shoulder and be recovered at about the bottom of your ribcage. Using myself as a guide, my hands would travel approximately 4 feet or so from the furthest expnsion forward to about mid torso.

Compared to that, today's stroke is a more compact motion that is more of a scull than an actual pull. By this I mean, the stroke is much shorter. Instead of a recovery at mid-torso the recovery is either at or slightly above the shoulders and there is more emphasis on the submerged glide. This is a direct result from the change in the 'head must remain above the surface' rule. So using myself again as an example, instead of travelling approximately 4 feet per stroke, my hands now travel about 2-2.5 feet per stroke leading to a much more compact stroke, and honestly, a much more efficient stroke. And because the recovery is much higher on the body than before, it is very possible to generate a forward motion on the recovery by having the palms of the hand turned slightly inward, i.e sculling.

I hope this helps.

Paul

Allen Stark
November 29th, 2007, 10:26 PM
Good answer Paul.I think one of the most important things about the "new' breaststroke is the head.Your head should lift little if at all on the breathe.You breath by lifting your torso. You want to get your arms forward and streamlined with your head underwater before you get to the power part of your kick.

pwolf66
November 30th, 2007, 07:39 AM
Yeah, if only I could actually execute that my breaststroke wouldn't be so slow :doh:

Paul

Red60
November 30th, 2007, 09:32 AM
Yeah, no kidding. Between the two of you, a crystal-clear explanation of a hard thing to do. Sigh. I'll let you know how my 100 goes this weekend. I'll probably be trying to learn the "new" stroke as I swim.

pwolf66
November 30th, 2007, 10:49 AM
Don't feel bad, Red. I'm swimming the 100m Breast at Colonies Zone. While that sounds relatively mild. 100 Breast? No worries. Let me provide some background. As a high-level competitive age group swimmer for almost 14 years, I swam 100 Breast as an event exactly once. And I remember finishing it, going to my coach and saying never again.

Now here I am 20+ years later actually CHOOSING to swim this? Ugh. Must be brain damage.

Paul