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ande
December 7th, 2007, 12:50 PM
What's Your Goal? What's Your Plan?

Ande

rtodd
December 7th, 2007, 07:56 PM
For this year,

1. First ever 100 IM next week.
2. 100 SCY free of 58.
3. Go under 6 min in 400m.
4. Keep learing.
5. Keep training.

Paul Smith
December 7th, 2007, 08:15 PM
the unattainable....every stroke, turn, start, finish in practice perfect, in my race(s) the perfect start, turn, stroke and finish = 0.00

you think I'm kidding...

malleboy
December 8th, 2007, 07:58 AM
under 1.17 on 100 breaststroke

stillwater
December 8th, 2007, 11:01 AM
-0.01

blainesapprentice
December 8th, 2007, 11:25 AM
Well...apparently I'm gonna be swimming distance from now on (in college) so...coming from a sprint background (past 14 years of 50-100-and a few 200 freestyles) I have a goal of becoming a pretty solid 500 swimmer

currently at a 5:30.03 (untapered, unshaved, first time in 3 years, on the 3rd day of a trials/finals meet)

I would like to go a 5:15...I think thats obtainable if I change the way I've been practicing all these years, and think more endurance and pace rather than balls the the walls and your done..like I have been doing for nearly 2 decades.

I'm not really sure what I should be doing in order to meet my goal other than working 100 repeat sets on tighter intervals.

Jazz Hands
December 8th, 2007, 12:33 PM
Great thread, Ande.

My goal is a fast 50 free. My plan is heavy lifting and fast swimming. I'm doing something a bit different than last year's 1x50 plan. I want more sprinting time to consider my technique. Right now I swim every weekday morning. A lot of my workouts now look like this:

10x25 free sprint, no breathing @ 3:00

I also sometimes work on 50s and sprint kicking. It's all subject to change. I don't know what kind of workouts I'll be doing as Austin approaches.

I lift six nights a week, generally alternating upper body day and lower body day, focusing on just one or two lifts each day. Here's my current schedule:

Thursday: Box squats
Friday: Barbell bench press, weighted chin-ups
Saturday: Sumo deadlifts
Sunday: Weighted dips, bent-over barbell rows
Monay: Unilateral leg work
Tuesday: Dumbbell bench press, lat pull-downs

Just like the swimming, it's subject to change.

JMiller
December 8th, 2007, 01:17 PM
Great thread, Ande.

My goal is a fast 50 free. My plan is heavy lifting and fast swimming.

Check this http://forums.usms.org/showpost.php?p=115316&postcount=21

As far as heavy lifting for sprints... hmmmm...
Considering the 50 free is anywhere from 25-40 strokes
I do recommend trying to lift lighter and a higher number
of repetitions to mimic what is required of your body on
race day...

The ultimate though is this... (Alison Shepard did this
for two years before the 2002 Commonwealth Games)

Alternate Max repetitions (light weight, 40-60 reps) one day
with Max weight (heavy weight, 8-12 reps) the next day...

It takes a few weeks before your body adapts, but this
is the ultimate in swimming/sprint performance.

Take a chance, it'll work...

Czarazuk
December 8th, 2007, 01:32 PM
Short-Term Goal: Qualify for the 2008 Long Course Meters Nationals. They are being held 30 minutes from my home and may not be in a more convenient place for another decade.

Medium-Term Goal: Continue swimming for many years. More particularly, join a team, compete regularly, improve technique and conditioning, and enjoy it along the way.

Long-Term Goal: Stay healthy and fit well into my 70's, 80's, 90's, and beyond. Swimming can do this for me.

knelson
December 8th, 2007, 01:50 PM
Alternate Max repetitions (light weight, 40-60 reps) one day
with Max weight (heavy weight, 8-12 reps) the next day...

I saw this on USA Swimming's site a couple weeks ago and thought it was pretty interesting: http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/ViewMiscArticle.aspx?TabId=144&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en&mid=196&ItemId=2662

What do you think about this, Jazz Hands? I know you're really into weight lifting.

Jazz Hands
December 8th, 2007, 02:56 PM
I saw this on USA Swimming's site a couple weeks ago and thought it was pretty interesting: http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/ViewMiscArticle.aspx?TabId=144&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en&mid=196&ItemId=2662

What do you think about this, Jazz Hands? I know you're really into weight lifting.

Louie Simmons, quoted in the article, is a powerlifting coach. He has his athletes do box squats and floor presses because those lifts develop explosiveness for competition lifts: deadlifts, squats, and bench press. It's an important element of training for them because the movements are so similar.

I'm skeptical that developing a quick onset of force production for squats and bench presses would have any transfer to swimming. The movements are just so different. Of course, I do box squats. But I do them because I think squat strength and technique is important for building muscle. The muscle is what makes the strength transfer happen in the water.

JMiller, I would like to use the same idea to respond to your suggestion. I prefer not to emulate swimming races in the weight room. I emulate them in the pool!

david.margrave
December 8th, 2007, 03:02 PM
I'm skeptical that developing a quick onset of force production for squats and bench presses would have any transfer to swimming.

Would it help for turns?

my goal: build endurance. I'm about 10% behind my 50 free time from H.S. but about 15% behind in distance events

Jazz Hands
December 8th, 2007, 03:09 PM
Would it help for turns?

Turns are more of a bouncy movement. The closest thing to a box squat in swimming is the start, and I don't think it's very close at all. Some would disagree, though. A lot of athletes do explosive lifting with the idea of being able to jump more explosively. I'm just making the educated guess that our brains aren't wired that way, and I'm basing my training on that.

I'll expand on this idea a little bit. I'm a saxophone player. I make very fast movements with my fingers when I play the saxophone. But sit me down at a piano and my fingers suddenly become very clumsy and unmusical. Why does that happen? The whole situation has changed, and I have to access a different procedural memory. My quickness is gone at the piano because my quickness was learned for the saxophone.

david.margrave
December 8th, 2007, 03:17 PM
what do you think would be a good exercise for improving turns (other than doing lots of turns)? Leg press, calf raises, etc?

Allen Stark
December 8th, 2007, 03:17 PM
My thinking about weights has been to try to duplicate as best I can the swimming motions doing (for me) high weight/low rep. My thinking is that swimming is by it's nature a low weight/high rep exercise and that to build additional power I need high weight /low rep work.

Jazz Hands
December 8th, 2007, 03:30 PM
what do you think would be a good exercise for improving turns (other than doing lots of turns)? Leg press, calf raises, etc?

I think it's a bad idea to look at strength training that way. Strength training for swimming should be three things, in my experience:

1. Long-term and consistent
2. Total body
3. Aimed at increasing muscle mass

Like you said, doing lots of turns is the best way to improve turns. Anything that is very similar to a turn (fast flips in the water, push offs) will help, as well. Going to dry land to work on a water skill seems really pointless to me. My strength development took a long time to transfer to swimming speed, and it took a lot of added muscle mass.

Thinking along the lines of, "I want to improve my explosiveness on turns, so I will do explosive squats this week," will get you pretty much nowhere. Get some big quads, glutes, hamstrings and calves. Incorporate that goal into a total body strength program over a very long period of time, and eat enough food to gain muscle. It seems obvious, but people forget it all the time: all other things being equal, bigger muscles are stronger and more powerful in all activities.

Jazz Hands
December 8th, 2007, 03:41 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention.

JMiller, thanks for the info on ankle flexibility. My kick is pretty bad, but whenever I try to develop more flexibility, I get chronic pain at the back of my ankles. One season I had this problem just from doing too much flutter kicking. I know one way to deal with this is to ease into the flexibility training. What else can you suggest?

david.margrave
December 8th, 2007, 03:48 PM
One more question for you, do you pay any attention to agonist vs antagonist (I think those are the terms) muscle groups used in swimming while weight training? I've seen some references that it's good to concentrate on muscle groups opposite those that are heavily worked in swimming (I don't think they mean to the complete exclusion though)

Paul Smith
December 8th, 2007, 03:55 PM
this is steering off track from the threads question....but since its being discussed all add in and pass long the post below from the Race Club. If you didn't follow the Texas invite Nick just went 19.2, 42+, 1:34+, 1:47+ 200 fly all while being sick from a cold....the question of weights relative to swimming/sprint success is very debatable and very personal...personally I have gravitated away from heavy lifting and focused more on flexibility in recent years and have been doing OK..
__________________________________________________ _______________

njBrunelli
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 179
Location: tempe Arizona
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: No Weight Lifting For Sprinters??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am just wondering about something here for coaches and high level swimmers.

Of all the high level sprinters in the world, what do people think about a sprinter not doing a weight dominated dry-land workout? And I am talking about sprinters only. I had some HUGE success with not lifting weights over the last year due to my shoulder injury and was wondering what people thought about this? I did go a best time in my 50 free (22.01 LCM) without lifting a dumbbell over 40lbs all year.

Do Sprinters NEED heavy weights and max out?

also check out my blog on:

-Nick Brunelli

mazzy
December 8th, 2007, 04:02 PM
Swim 100 free SCM under 1:00.

Situation:
I'm back in pool after nearly 24 years off, I'm swimming with others guys and a coach, but for now he's of little help, 2 x 45min at Week.
I'm going at the gym 3-4 x week working on the core body, stretching, legs.
At the end of workouts, I've just the time for a "fast" 25 meters...
At this time my kick is null and "disconnected" from the rest of body when I go for all out, I'm focused only on the pull.
it's 21-22 secs push off the wall, At the end with only 15 hours of swimming so far, it's not that bad I think

The Plan:
Reading this forum looking for advices, hints, experiences, and so on.
Add 1 more workout 75-90mins long, working alone, starting from January.
Add 1 more workout, working alone starting from April.
Going for 5 x week alone, in july and go for It at the end of month.
Working on vastly improve my stoke all around (kicking timining, elbow, catch, and so on)
Working hard on kicking set.

The Key :
Getting my kicking times in 19-20ish from a push consistently, I stand a chance to get it.

Jazz Hands
December 8th, 2007, 04:05 PM
One more question for you, do you pay any attention to agonist vs antagonist (I think those are the terms) muscle groups used in swimming while weight training? I've seen some references that it's good to concentrate on muscle groups opposite those that are heavily worked in swimming (I don't think they mean to the complete exclusion though)

Yeah, definitely. And you're right, it's not to exclusion. Antagonists provide stability. Developing them along with the agonists of swimming is important. Some examples for swimming are the muscles that retract the scapula and externally rotate the humerus. Bent-over rows with a wide grip and deadlifts are great for these muscles.

Of course, building up the agonists for swimming is just as important. Weighted dips are an awesome exercise for this purpose. Pulling movements like chin-ups and rows are great for swimming because they build both primary movers and stabilizing muscles.

If you're serious about weight training for swimming, send me a private message and I'll be glad to help you figure out the details.

Ripple
December 8th, 2007, 07:19 PM
This won't seem very impressive compared to some of the other goals that have been posted, but I'd like to do 2500m in less than an hour. Both in the pool, for a charity fundraising swim that I do every April, and in the one and only open water swim race that is ever held in our province, in July.

scyfreestyler
December 8th, 2007, 10:39 PM
...

JMiller
December 10th, 2007, 02:14 AM
Just like swimming, one article at a time.

With any luck, earn the respect of influential media members and become part of a group that improves the swimming brand in the eyes of the general public... My ultimate goal is to become the Don Cherry of water sports. (only healthier)

Josh Miller
December 10th, 2007, 08:39 AM
My goal is to get swim faster than my times in High School.

If that doesnt happen I just want to stay in shape and have fun swimming again.

The Fortress
December 10th, 2007, 09:49 AM
Beginning in January, I'm going to re-focus on kicking and SDK work. Lately, I've been completely ignoring kicking and my flutter kick is awful. I think Paul Smith is right about this, and I'm going to do much more of it for 4 weeks.

I'm also considering spinning once a week. But then will depend on class times and whether it is too cold to run.

I'm going to start doing ankle flexibility exercises more often too.

Still mulling over times. No SCY meet until April (zones).

Chris Stevenson
December 10th, 2007, 10:17 AM
Hello everyone,

Usually I stay in lurk mode but I think setting goals, as specific as possible, is a great way to stay motivated.

They don't necessarily have to be time-based, either, but they ought to be something that you can translate into a training strategy. Examples: swimming a 200 fly or 400 IM or 1650 in a meet for the first time (or the first time in recent memory!) is very laudable. As an aside, I usually take my inspiration not as much from the elite swimmers -- as impressive as they can be -- but from the 70+ year old swimmers who tackle difficult events like these. I just swam a meet where a 70 year old swam a 200 fly in something like 5:30. Imagine swimming fly straight for that long a time...at 70 years of age. Pretty amazing.

If you set a time-based goal, make sure you break it down into the (realistic) splits necessary to do it and then base your training goals accordingly. If you want to break 1:00 in the 100 free but can't break 30 yet...well, you need to build the speed/power first before translating it to "easy speed." (In my experience, many masters swimmers have plenty of endurance but don't work enough on race-pace swimming in practice...much as Ande has been preaching.)

When setting goals, adjusting for age can, of course, be difficult; it may be different for others, but I can't come anywhere near my high school or college times. I have been tinkering with a rating system that can help with this; I freely admit to borrowing and refining the idea from a NEM home page (Great Bay Masters, I think). It is at

http://www.vaswim.org/cgi-bin/rcalc.cgi

I plan on doing more work on it when I can spare the time over the next year, so any feedback would be appreciated. It is, of course, completely free for general use. I intended it exactly for this purpose -- goal setting -- but it can certainly be used for trash talking across genders and age groups...!

Happy swimming,

Chris

knelson
December 10th, 2007, 10:49 AM
My ultimate goal is to become the Don Cherry of water sports.

So does this mean you consider Stefan Nystrand to be a "chicken Swede?" :)

ande
December 10th, 2007, 11:59 AM
Guess I should answer my own questions

What's Your Goal?
My near term goal is to see how close I can come to my times from the
1988 USMS Short Course Yards National Championships at the
2008 USMS Short Course Yards National Championships
88: 50 fr 21.20, 100 fr 47.12, 50 fl 23.01, 100 fl 50.97
I'm also going to swim the 100 IM & 100 bk


What's Your Plan?
1) Get fast from speed training 4 - 6 x / week
2) Get strong from weight training 2 - 3 x / week
3) Get Lean from waist management

Lightning
December 10th, 2007, 12:06 PM
Getting a Breast-stroke qualifying time for the May Nationals in Austin, at a meet in March. That gives me 3 months to go from 35.xx to a 32.xx in the 50 or from a 115.xx to a 110.xx in the 100.

I'm hoping to add another practice time per week (up to 4), get more sprinting into my workouts, work on pacing and even-splitting, add some personal coach training on technique, be more regular in the weight room (2 x week), and a pinch of luck!

smontanaro
December 10th, 2007, 01:25 PM
What's Your Plan?
...
3) Get Lean from waist management

Got any specific tips, maybe a "get skinnier faster" website? ;)

Skip Montanaro

art_z
December 10th, 2007, 01:34 PM
2:20 in the 200 SCM back/2:05 in the 200 SCY back

to acheive it I need to drop .50 per 50, while at the same time taking my 100 out 1 second slower. Didn't hit it this weekend at zones, but being sick during the last few days of taper didnt help.

I need to work more broken 200s, more over distance (225s/250s/300s). Any set of 200s from now on 2:40 I am swimming backstroke rather than freestyle.

I am going to hit the weights finally, first time ever on a consistent basis.

Am going to drop 15 pounds by SCY zones in April.

born2fly
December 10th, 2007, 01:50 PM
My goal is always the same. To swim faster than the previous year and to be under 2 in the 200 fly.

JimRude
December 10th, 2007, 04:43 PM
... to suffer (in training) enough to reach my goals for the 2008 LCM Nationals...

phdude
December 10th, 2007, 06:20 PM
My goal for this month is to get my 1650 time under 20 minutes. my last clock was 20:58 about a month ago. doing 40k this week, research be damned!

SearayPaul
December 10th, 2007, 10:06 PM
Goal for the year: Have Fun

Motivation: Swim with the high school team

Action Plan: Arrive 15 minutes early for extra warm up. Make all of the HS intervals. Stay 30 minutes extra to practice long perfect freestyle at different distances.

Results: Swim 3500 in the 1 hour postal swim with out dying. Swim Hilton Head meet in April to record personal best in 100 IM.

Reality: ? I don't know but 2008 will be better than 2007 with no major injuries.

JMiller
December 11th, 2007, 08:47 PM
Just like swimming, one article at a time.

With any luck, earn the respect of influential media members and become part of a group that improves the swimming brand in the eyes of the general public... My ultimate goal is to become the Don Cherry of water sports. (only healthier) Is anyone connected to the media?

My swimming goal is to be 59.99 or better, SCM for 100 Back when I'm 55+

The plan, keep swimming...

Today I did this set.

3X(6x100)+100 easy on 1:30 descend
(Short course meters)

First six, average 1:12 FREESTYLE
Second six, average 1:08
Third six, average 1:05
EXTRA MINUTE REST BEFORE LAST ONE
57.5

http://forums.usms.org/showpost.php?p=116507&postcount=32

CreamPuff
December 12th, 2007, 08:28 AM
Short Term:

Enter and participate in my USS's team's "Animal Meet" on the 29th injury free and ready to swim the three events: 1000 FR, 200 Fly, and 400 IM. Hence, the "Animal Meet" name.

Not make a fool of myself.

Not get DQd.

Earn my "Animal" Tee Shirt.

Enjoy swimming with the kiddies and use it to help me get back into shape post my injury.

Just starting to feel good again. . .

rtodd
December 12th, 2007, 08:17 PM
Today I did this set.

3X(6x100)+100 easy on 1:30 descend
(Short course meters)

First six, average 1:12 FREESTYLE
Second six, average 1:08
Third six, average 1:05
EXTRA MINUTE REST BEFORE LAST ONE
57.5


That's stout.


Enter and participate in my USS's team's "Animal Meet" on the 29th injury free and ready to swim the three events: 1000 FR, 200 Fly, and 400 IM. Hence, the "Animal Meet" name.

.....stouter. (is that a word?)

How's the neck?

funkyfish
December 13th, 2007, 11:54 PM
My goal is to get swim faster than my times in High School.

Ditto.

Plan: Get my lazy butt out of bed in the morning first thing next year and start swimming with the local age group team 3 days a week.

Also, eat bananas: :banana:

Beat dead horsies: :dedhorse:

Start cross-training with some fencing: :duel:

And maybe cuss some in between sucking wind: :censor: