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Lightning
December 18th, 2007, 10:48 AM
I'm trying to make a qualifying time in either 50 or 100 breast for the SCY Nationals and need some training help.

I've posted my goals on Ande's thread, "what are your goals and what are you going to do to get there" but they are essentially going from a 35.xx to a 32.xx in the 50 and a 115.xx to a 110.xx in the 100.

I have a great Mon-Wed-Frid, coached, 90 minute, interval-based, workout that is IM mixed, 3400-3800+ yards. Right now we are building endurance without much sprinting and not focused at all on the breaststroke.

I am lifting weights (with a focus on my core) tues-thursd.

Occasionally, I have had a technique consultation from a private coach and am working on my stroke when I can. I'm going to try and post a video as soon as I can, as I need a lot of help - my size (6'-3'') and build (190 lbs) can only get me so far. I've only been swimming 17 months and I'm 43 y/o.

I want to add at least one other swim workout per week, but need to know how to structure the workout to focus specifically on getting faster and stronger on the breaststroke.

Does anyone have any breaststroke-focused workouts to recommend, including drills, sets, pacing ideas, etc? Or any other suggestions?

Many thanks for all ideas!

TRYM_Swimmer
December 18th, 2007, 12:35 PM
Try this link:

http://www.breaststroke.info/

ande
December 18th, 2007, 02:37 PM
read swim faster faster
http://www.usms.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4229
there's some breastroke tips in there

focus your training on the 50 & 100 breast

establish benchmark in practice breastroke times for
25, 50, 75, & 100
for swimming, pulling, & kicking with a board and without

get strong

perfect your technique




I'm trying to make a qualifying time in either 50 or 100 breast for the SCY Nationals and need some training help.

I've posted my goals on Ande's thread, "what are your goals and what are you going to do to get there" but they are essentially going from a 35.xx to a 32.xx in the 50 and a 115.xx to a 110.xx in the 100.

I have a great Mon-Wed-Frid, coached, 90 minute, interval-based, workout that is IM mixed, 3400-3800+ yards. Right now we are building endurance without much sprinting and not focused at all on the breaststroke.

I am lifting weights (with a focus on my core) tues-thursd.

Occasionally, I have had a technique consultation from a private coach and am working on my stroke when I can. I'm going to try and post a video as soon as I can, as I need a lot of help - my size (6'-3'') and build (190 lbs) can only get me so far. I've only been swimming 17 months and I'm 43 y/o.

I want to add at least one other swim workout per week, but need to know how to structure the workout to focus specifically on getting faster and stronger on the breaststroke.

Does anyone have any breaststroke-focused workouts to recommend, including drills, sets, pacing ideas, etc? Or any other suggestions?

Many thanks for all ideas!

Allen Stark
December 19th, 2007, 01:55 AM
Please get the video up ASAP. There are many good drills,but without seeing your stroke I can't be sure what to recommend(though underwater breaststroke,2 kick/1 pull,and breaststroke kick on your back correct the most common flaws.)Also trying to increase your DPS while maintaining your speed is also almost always helpful.

new
December 19th, 2007, 12:00 PM
Try this everyday for a week, you will see


Your OWN warm up,

then...:

4 x 50 breast kick fast
4 x 50 brest drill
4 x 50 breast kick fast

Main sets:

All breast: between: 15-20 seconds rest, no more!

-12x25 on :30

-6 x 50 on :50 or :45

-3 x 100 on 1:45 or 1:30

-200 try best time 25" rest

-3 x 100 on 1:45 or 1:30

-6 x 50 on :50 or :45

-10 x 25 on :30

Your own warm down.

Slowswim
December 19th, 2007, 03:15 PM
Try this everyday for a week, you will see


Your OWN warm up,

then...:

4 x 50 breast kick fast
4 x 50 brest drill
4 x 50 breast kick fast



Can you recommend any Breast stroke drills?

Thanx,
Bill

Glider
December 19th, 2007, 04:12 PM
Hey, Bill.

How'd your St Nick's meet go? Couldn't make it myself...shoulder and elbow issues put me down for four weeks. But I'm back in the water and feeling good...

Try this site. Glenn's a strong breaststroker. You can find some workouts, drills, videos...good stuff:notworthy:

Here's the main page... http://www.goswim.tv/

Here's the drill archives http://www.goswim.tv/drilloftheweek_archives.php.

You'll have to search through list for the breaststroke drills, but it's easy enough.

Glider

Lightning
December 19th, 2007, 05:17 PM
Thanks so much everyone for the suggestions!!

Looks like I need to start with establishing benchmarks, getting strong, and then refining. - thanks Ande; I'll post my progress.

Allen, I'm going to work on getting video.

"NEW" - the workout looks great - many thanks!

Glider, the "goswim" website is new to me - thanks! I loved the drill shown (underwater swim and keeping legs narrow) - I had a question about her technique; it looked like she initiates her forward dive and puts her head underwater BEFORE her kick, rather than simultaneously. Is this her actual stroke or part of the drill? I have been kicking at at the SAME time that I dive forward to propel me. Have I been doing this wrong????

I greatly appreciate the feedback!!

new
December 19th, 2007, 05:23 PM
Can you recommend any Breast stroke drills?




First, I would suggest to work on speed, watching your times.... and then go into drills...

I used to waste too much time doing drills, it didn't help my speed until I started doing the chain set...

Drill examples:

-2 kicks + 1 stroke...

-1 stroke, count 3 under water, 1 stroke...

-pulling breast "non stop" with dolphing kick...

-etc


Work on your turns!

-Strong pulling
-dolphing kick + breast kick


Watch videos to get the "good" technique...


Good luck

Glider
December 19th, 2007, 09:01 PM
Lightning,

Glenn addressed this in a forum discussion I read. Think about it for a minute...Breaststroke propulsion is ALL about the kick.

Would you get better propulsion if you kicked while ALREADY streamlined OR kicked to initiate a streamlined position?

The former, obviously...That's why the focus is on such a quick recovery/drive forward (not down, btw). It sets up a streamlined position for a kick with maximum propulsion that follows.

Mark


Thanks so much everyone for the suggestions!!

Looks like I need to start with establishing benchmarks, getting strong, and then refining. - thanks Ande; I'll post my progress.

Allen, I'm going to work on getting video.

"NEW" - the workout looks great - many thanks!

Glider, the "goswim" website is new to me - thanks! I loved the drill shown (underwater swim and keeping legs narrow) - I had a question about her technique; it looked like she initiates her forward dive and puts her head underwater BEFORE her kick, rather than simultaneously. Is this her actual stroke or part of the drill? I have been kicking at at the SAME time that I dive forward to propel me. Have I been doing this wrong????

I greatly appreciate the feedback!!

Slowswim
December 20th, 2007, 02:14 PM
Hey, Bill.

How'd your St Nick's meet go? Couldn't make it myself...shoulder and elbow issues put me down for four weeks. But I'm back in the water and feeling good...

Try this site. Glenn's a strong breaststroker. You can find some workouts, drills, videos...good stuff:notworthy:

Here's the main page... http://www.goswim.tv/

Here's the drill archives http://www.goswim.tv/drilloftheweek_archives.php.

You'll have to search through list for the breaststroke drills, but it's easy enough.

Glider

Glider:

Thanks for the website.

The meet was great! Very well run. I was scared Sh**less. I couldn't believe it. I was thinking that I've jumped out of planes, gone to war, been shot, but the thought of racing 50m was the scariest! Go figure. I'll very glad I did it.

If I'm in the area next year, I plan to do it again. I see there's a St Patty's Day meet in Atlanta.

Lightning
December 20th, 2007, 05:29 PM
YES! It makes so much sense; I can't wait to try it in the water - the videos of drills have been extremely helpful; thanks again!

runner girl
December 20th, 2007, 07:14 PM
I have a great Mon-Wed-Frid, coached, 90 minute, interval-based, workout that is IM mixed, 3400-3800+ yards. Right now we are building endurance without much sprinting and not focused at all on the breaststroke.

You might be able to add a little more breatstroke in the MWF woorkouts by doing things like changing a set that is 100 free into 25 breast/75free. It may requiring moving into a slower lane, but thats okay. Just make sure you let the coach and lanemates know what you are doing. Or I suppose if the set is 100, you could do a 50 breast as long as it doesn't interfere with the other people in the lane.

When we were doing a lot of IM training we used to do 125 yard IM where we did a 50 of our stroke (or rotate through the strokes) and then a 25 of each of the other strokes. Those were good for conditioning.

start :soapbox:
I think (and I've seen it in plenty of other threads) that you need to get in lots of race pace swimming to drop your times in the 50 and 100. If you can't get that in during your coached workouts, make sure you are doing it in your own workout.
end :soapbox:

Its a slow show
December 20th, 2007, 08:52 PM
As the butterflyer sets is arms to pull is really almost the same for a breastroker. I think there is to much talk about ther kick. Its all one fluid action but the pull is powerfully set like a flyer. I am not saying that the kick isn't important just has to be instinc with the pull. I have known many great breastrokers that had a weak kick when doing kicking but the perfect timing with the pull made them fantasticIMO

Lightning
December 21st, 2007, 10:29 AM
I played around with my timing on all breaststroke sets this morning, and boy everything is all messed up. I worked on placing the narrow/strong kick after I had attacked the recovery (instead of at the same time as I had been doing) and after I was streamlined underwater - but I never found a rhythm for very long.

I've also been working on a narrower pull, and strong scull; lifting me up into the "wave" more, rolling my shoulders, and lungeing forward - I can tell this is helping but it is also exhausting me.

I know I need to be patient when changing up my stroke, I think more drills will help.

I do need workouts on my own, to focus on breast and sprint, as many have suggested.

Thanks for all the ideas - all suggestions are welcomed!

AtGate
December 24th, 2007, 01:19 AM
Try keeping the chin down if it already isn't. Also pull the hips in. Many swimmers around my age (14) tend to use the head to lead the way, but hey the stroke can go very wrong if that happens.

When finishing the recovery and you're gliding at the top of the stroke, keep the elbow tucked in nicely so water can roll down the arms better. I dropped my 100 time from a 1:10 to a 1:08 (SCY) by doing that.

Thrashing Slug
December 24th, 2007, 05:12 PM
Here's a workout I did last night which worked pretty well:


400 warmup: 100 swim, 300 misc kicking with and without a board (no fins)

5 X 200 swim, alt free and breast with fistgloves (200 free, 200 breast, etc.) 60 sec rest between. Focus on relaxed, consistent pull technique, good body roll on the free, and good hip/body position on the BR.

5 X 100 swim, alt free and breast 60 sec rest. gloves off.
Focus on finishing the pull on the free (push the hip out of the way). Focus on fast hand recovery and squeezing the elbows together to raise the head on the breaststroke.

5 X 50 swim, alt free and breast
No conscious thought, just relax and try to go FAST by applying what was imprinted during the 200s and 100s.

400 pull warmdown


If you don't have the gloves just swim with closed fists. Make sure you keep them closed for the whole 1000 yd set though, to get the full effect. It's amazing how much it helps with the breaststroke.

Lightning
January 2nd, 2008, 11:06 AM
Try this everyday for a week, you will see


Your OWN warm up,

then...:

4 x 50 breast kick fast
4 x 50 brest drill
4 x 50 breast kick fast

Main sets:

All breast: between: 15-20 seconds rest, no more!

-12x25 on :30

-6 x 50 on :50 or :45

-3 x 100 on 1:45 or 1:30

-200 try best time 25" rest

-3 x 100 on 1:45 or 1:30

-6 x 50 on :50 or :45

-10 x 25 on :30

Your own warm down.

I've added this workout to my week and have done it several times now. I love it; it is really helping develop my endurance, speed, and technique as I focus on different stroke elements each time.

I've had difficulty keeping the intervals. I've also slightly sprained my inner thigh muscle. I also start getting cramps toward the end of the workout in my legs.

Is ths because my body is not used to this much focused breaststroke training, or am I doing something wrong? Going from a few hundred yards of breaststroke 3 X week, to 2000 yards in one practice is a big jump for me. Any feedback or advice?

I do love the workout however, and plan to set my intermediate goals in line with making the intervals for each set, closer and closer to this workout. Also, I'm adding in more breaststroke work in my other 3 weeky workouts (with my coach's blessing of course).

Any other ideas, suggestions, and advice?

new
January 3rd, 2008, 09:46 AM
Any other ideas, suggestions, and advice?

I do th workout every 7-8 days to work on my breaststroke before the big IM workout.
I have a friend that do that workout everyday (he always add new sets), He goes 1:02 on the 100 breast SCM.

The first times are hard, but you will get used to after two months doing it once or twice a week. (or everyday)

You can try an easier workout to start: ;)

Your own warm up, plus some breast-kick and some drills. Then:

-10x25 5-10" rest
-30" rest
-5x50 10" rest
-30" rest
-3x100 15" rest
-30" rest
-1x200 decend by 50's
-25" rest
-1x150 keep same speed
-25" rest
-2x100 15" rest
-30" rest
-5x50 10" rest
-30" rest
-10x25 5-10" rest

Cool down

This is way easier since you are not concern about making times, even so you have to try hard.

Lightning
January 3rd, 2008, 02:47 PM
Thanks for the modified workout; I'll give it a try too - I love a challenge though so I'm determined to keep at it till I can meet the intervals of the first workout. I'm already getting some time drops in my 25 yd kick and also 25 yd swim. Partly due to stroke modifications but also due to adding in these workouts I think. I appreciate it!!!