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View Full Version : Dealing with Masters Records in Hy-Tek Meet Manager



edtsuzuki
December 31st, 2007, 11:03 AM
Are there experts out there in dealing with "local" (i.e. LMSC or ZONE) records within Hy-Tek Meet Manager? I have been going crazy trying to create and update them within MM. Here are some of my issues:

1. Hy-Tek can only export records to .REC file format. Hy-Tek does not allow masters meets to import .REC files. So, in order to move a record file from meet to meet, you have to export as .REC, open the (next) meet, change the meet set up to "Open", import the .REC file, change the meet back to "Masters" and work with the records. (and I also have experienced this not working).

2. When importing from two comma delimited format (mimicking the INAT.SCM and RNAT.SCM files (as examples)) files, MM creates duplicate entries of the men's and women's relays. The mixed relays are fine. Has anyone experienced this dilemma?

3. The record report output is just a continuous listing of records - by event number or by age group. No groupings/columns with headings. I have never seen records listed this way!

Being a Hy-Tek neophyte, I am ready to accept that I am doing everything wrong, so please show me the way!! (I looked for user documentation with details on masters records and exchanged MANY e-mails with Bob from Hy-Tek (who is ready to kill me)). Many thanks if you know how to work it and can share your wisdom!

Ed Tsuzuki

pakman044
December 31st, 2007, 01:21 PM
I'm no Meet Manager expert (I'm certainly not going to spend the money to get anything more than the Demo version).

But it appears that the limitation to prohibit REC files from being imported is an intentional limitation of the program. From the online help:


1. You may import a HY-TEK Record file that has been created by HY-TEK's TEAM MANAGER or MEET MANAGER. The HY-TEK Record file always has the file extension ".REC". The Record holder information is currently an 80 character field. So first, MM checks to see if this record is for a relay event. If it is a relay, it takes the first 30 characters as the record holder info and the last 50 characters as the relay names. If it is not a relay, it takes the first 30 characters as the record holder info and next 16 characters for the team affiliation.

2. You may Import a US Masters (USMS) comma delimited Records file. HY-TEK includes the World and National USMS Records files for all three courses in the installation directory that was specified when you installed MM. The file extensions for Masters files are .scm, .lcm, and .scy. MM cannot export records in the Masters format.

Why it can't import REC files for Masters meets when that's all you can export mystifies me. I suppose that they assume that people are keeping their records in comma seperated spreadsheets, and that that's the simplest way to go, but then you would think they could export to those formats. It's not as if this is a complex software problem--coding the solution should be fairly straightforward.

I did grab the FINA Masters world records from their website, but I didn't see the duplication issue (I attached the report if you want to look). It could be a problem in your record files themselves, or I might not be importing enough records to say for sure (the Meet Manager Demo only allows you to setup meets with up to 6 events). It may also be because of switching the meet format back and forth is causing problems (it could change the default age group setup I suppose). Or your version of Meet Manager could be old (the latest version is 2.0Fn, which was pushed out Saturday).

For #3, it certainly looks like a bare report, but most of the time when I see hosts MM records, they'll distill and post the recordbreaker report instead of the plain records. There really isn't much you can do make them more elaborate in Meet Manager I think. Running the report in Team Manager doesn't really look much better either.

If you want me to take a look at your records files to see if there's a problem with them, drop me a line at pakman044@usms.org. Of course, it's also possible someone may be able to answer your questions better than I!

Patrick King

nkfrench
December 31st, 2007, 03:12 PM
My experience is limited and just non-USMS meets. The DEMO version won't be a good platform to learn all of what's possible vs not since it is only to demo the basic software, not provide a free vehicle for using it. Many other exports won't be available either.

Our non-USMS records chair has run into "quirks" when kids set records when they swim an open event but set a 13-14 record, etc. They are hard to spot when a kid finishes 48th and yet is still the fastest age grouper. Since it's not me running into it I am not firsthand reporting an issues.

Good luck!

pakman044
December 31st, 2007, 04:09 PM
My experience is limited and just non-USMS meets. The DEMO version won't be a good platform to learn all of what's possible vs not since it is only to demo the basic software, not provide a free vehicle for using it. Many other exports won't be available either.

Our non-USMS records chair has run into "quirks" when kids set records when they swim an open event but set a 13-14 record, etc. They are hard to spot when a kid finishes 48th and yet is still the fastest age grouper. Since it's not me running into it I am not firsthand reporting an issues.

Good luck!

Oh I agree that the demo is not the best thing in the world, but the behavior in this case is similar to the behavior being described (can't import a REC file for a Masters meet; can't export the Masters-format comma delineated file). In the case of the Meet Manager demo, the restriction is that you can only setup 6 events in a meet, but all of the features work (you could theoretically run that six event meet on your timing console, and you can export everything the full-featured version would). It's possible in this case that the error is something that you're only going to see after so many events have been entered.

Now with the Team Manager demo, it certainly is crippled so that you can only do certain things.

Patrick King

edtsuzuki
December 31st, 2007, 06:43 PM
Thanks for your reply. I am using the demo version because I don't actually run any meets. Only need to publish and maintain results and records. Per my conversations with Hy-Tek support, all of the feature I need should be enabled! I'll keep working at it.
Thanks!
Ed

edtsuzuki
December 31st, 2007, 06:45 PM
Patrick,
Thanks for your comments. I think I have to start from stratch and build up the records file from as many meets as I can get my hands on. I will e-mail you the record files I have been using to see if you might find what my error is! Ed

osterber
January 2nd, 2008, 11:34 AM
Hy-Tek handling of records in masters meets is weak, and I think they (Hy-Tek) would admit it. One suggestion I would make... send an email to Hy-Tek suggesting that they improve how it works. (The more they hear from customers, the more likely they are to make it better.)

The best way I deal with masters records is to just start with the comma-delimited version, and import. The USMS web site provides the USMS records in this format. Here in New England, we maintain (or rather, Ed Gendreau maintains) the local records in that format as well.

One other big limitation to Hy-Tek is that I believe it will only print 10 records per event. So if you're running a championship meet, and have both regional and national records loaded, you'll only get the youngest 10 records, which would be:

18-24, 25-29, 30-34, 35-39, 40-44 in national and regional

So your heat sheets and results will never have records for 45 and higher.

-Rick

edtsuzuki
January 2nd, 2008, 12:55 PM
Rick,
Thanks. Have been exchanging many e-mails with Hy-Tek, so they are well aware of my issues, but not so sure that they would agree that they are "weak" in this area.
It is great to have the csv files maintained. Unfortunately, Hy-Tek does not export to csv, so once you get the files updated with new records at a meet, you can export to Hy-Tek's .rec format only. You would have to manually update the csv files outside of Hy-Tek in order to have them available for another meet.
I did not know about that limitation for number of records. I will inquire about that.
Thanks.
Ed

BTingley
January 2nd, 2008, 01:41 PM
Ed,

This is how I moved all of the Senior Games Records from the 2003 to the 2005 and to the 2007 Games Databases.

Create the new database in the USA Swim format, under Setup by adding all events in as multi age groups, using the FINA 5 year format.

Change the old database, after updating the records, to the USA Format, under setup, then export the records.

You should export a .rec file.

Import the records into the new database, then change the Setup to Masters.

Check the records.

This should work.

BT

edtsuzuki
January 2nd, 2008, 01:50 PM
Bill,
That sound like a good approach, but when you said you "updated the records," do you mean you typed them all in manually? (I am talking about the very first time you are creating the records file with many years of history already collected - manually.)
Ed