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Tuesday, Feb 24

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by , February 24th, 2009 at 03:44 PM (9887 Views)
Swim, solo, SCY:

Warm up:

700 variety swim, kick, drill

Aerobic Conditioning Set:
(this set was swiped from Chris' morning workout and modified)

1 x 200 backstroke kick @ 3:20
2 x 100 IM @ 1:45
3 x 50 fly @ 1:00
1 x 200 backstroke kick @ 3:20
2 x 100 IM @ 1:45
3 x 50 back @ 50
1 x 200 backstroke kick @ 3:20
2 x 100 IM @ 1:45
3 x 40 breast @ 1:00

50 EZ

Endurance Kick Set:

20 x 50 dolphin kick w/MF @ :45
5 on back, 5 w/board, 5 on back, 5 w/board
(worked on kicking on my side on the ones on my back)

100 EZ

Speed Set:
(didn't really feel like doing these, but forced myself to. my free actually felt pretty fast and strong.)

8 x (25 AFAP free + 25 EZ)

150 C/D

Total: 4050


I am really from weights yesterday. Not in a scary shoulder pain kind of way, just a sore way. I'm sure it's from my experiments with assisted and unassisted pull ups yesterday and the increased weight. I'm worried I'll still be sore tomorrow when I was going to lift. I'm wondering if it's better to take 2 days off between weight sessions if you're lifting heavier? Thoughts on this?


Here's the Order of Events for Colonies Zones on April 25-26: I'm trying to figure out what events to swim. Any thoughts? I'll probably rest some for this meet and keep resting for a SCM meet in NY in early May. Jimby suggested the 400 IM and 500 free, but that is just not in the cards! Think I'll do 100 free though. Haven't swum it in 2 years in SCY. Wolf Girl thinks I've never swum it, but actually I'm a "Zonesman" in this event.


100 free
200 back
400 mixed free relay
200 mixed medley relay
50 breast
200 IM
500 free
100 fly
200 breast
50 back
400 medley relay
200 free relay


200 free
100 IM
800 free relay
400 mixed medley relay
200 mixed free relay
50 fly
100 breast
400 IM
100 back
200 fly
50 free
400 free relay
200 medley relay

I'll probably swim the two relays at the end of each day and the 200 mixed medley relay early in the day on Sat.

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Updated February 25th, 2009 at 09:22 AM by The Fortress

Swim Workouts , Masters Swim Meets / Events


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  1. Jazz Hands's Avatar
    Fort, an extra rest day would be fine, it's hard to really go all out when you're sore. Eventually you'll be able to settle into a routine with heavier weights without being sore all the time (just part of the time).
  2. Chris Stevenson's Avatar
    Fortress, the main problem with doing the 100 free is that it is right before the 200 back. I know you'll want to swim that!!

    Actually, in all seriousness, I do think you should give it another try when you are rested. I think it can be one of your best events. Will you rest/taper for Zones?

    Looks like you maybe have a choice between 100 back or 50 free on the second day. Or will you try both?
  3. The Fortress's Avatar

    Zones is less 2 months away. Don't think I can do a full 2-3 week taper, or that I want to so soon. Will rest some, haven't decided how much. Open to suggestions. Right now, my next big taper likely will be Indy. (I'm trying to overcome my aversion to the order of events.)

    I actually fully intend to keep doing the 200 back here and there. It hurt like hell, but, still, I enjoyed it. I wasn't thinking of it so much for Zones ... But I guess I could, as there's not much else to swim Saturday except 50 back. I just hadn't swum the 100 free in a long time, so was leaning toward that. Of course, I could do a 100 free split in the 200 free on Sunday (in lieu of the 100 IM) ... Just wouldn't be able to go mano a mano in the 100 free with my secret nemesis, who is back competing now.

    I am going to do the 100 back on Sunday for sure. I'm done with the 50 free in SCY. Don't expect to improve on my 24.9. And I simply prefer the 100 back. 50 free is so unpredictable.

    Are you still on the fence about coming to Zones or intend to pass because of Clovis?
  4. The Fortress's Avatar

    I just can't figure out how many x per week to lift. Right now, I'm leaning toward 3 40-45 minute sessions. Perhaps 4 shorter ones would be better. I know some soreness is inevitable, but I don't want to be sore 24/7. Makes me cranky and it's so hard to swim fast that way.

    Does it make any sense to break up upper and lower body work into different workouts? Or does that just create more soreness?

    Ack, having a hard time figuring out the best routine ...

    Are you doing lunges to build leg strength? Or do those hit other areas too?
  5. tjrpatt's Avatar
    Fort, you should totally swim the 1000 on Friday. Gosh, I didn't realize that the 400 IM and 200 fly were so close to each other. Ah, I will be tapered so no big deal. The order of events doesn't help us flyerIMdistancefree people at all. I can't even do the 100 fly or 200 IM because it conflicts with my 500. Oh well, my main focus of the meet is the 1650 anyway. Yeah, do the 1000!!!!! Plus, you can get splits for the 200 and 500 at the same time.
  6. Jazz Hands's Avatar

    You ask so many questions! I think it's great, because it shows you're really thinking seriously about the process. A good indicator of future success.

    Regarding number of sessions per week, you will have to find what you are comfortable with, and that requires some experimentation. You will do well no matter how you break up your training volume, as long as you are putting in the effort.

    Splitting into upper/lower is fine, but that probably means working out more often.

    Lunges are a leg strength exercise. Particularly tough on the quads and glutes. Remember to use added weight if you can! A barbell on your back, or dumbells at your side. I prefer the barbell because then I don't have to worry so much about the grip.

    And since I know you're going to ask, there are about a billion ways to do lunges. You can keep the legs split and do sets with just one leg at a time. You can step forward and then back to center, alternating legs while staying in place. You can do the same thing stepping backward. I even saw a guy today lunging his way around the perimeter of the weight room with a barbell on his back.
    Updated February 24th, 2009 at 06:03 PM by Jazz Hands
  7. The Fortress's Avatar
    Ack, no thanks, Tom! Besides, it's probably already full.

    Ugh, the 400 IM and 200 fly are very close. Can't imagine doing that double.
  8. The Fortress's Avatar
    Thanks Jazz. Yeah, I am a questioner. Hit Ande with a bunch today too. I like to know why I'm doing something; I'm not good with blind acceptance of a program.

    I think I've seen trainers at my gym having people do lunges forward, backward, to the sides, left-forward etc. I'm been really lazy about lower body weight work, as I'm often running/spinning/finning. I can leg press well over 300. Should I nonetheless carry on with/incorporate more lower body work in the gym?

    I've been avoiding squats until my hip is 100% ... It seems to be getting better more than getting worse. So should be fine soon.

    So do lunges make your ass bigger just like squats? I'm still traumatized from Stud dropping that little factoid on me.

    Should I be doing both pull ups and chin ups? (Now that I know the difference. lol) Is one better than the other?

    I notice Ande does lat presses. What the heck is that? I know what lat pull downs are, but not those. Are those like tricep presses?
  9. qbrain's Avatar
    You don't have to be sore much. The goal is to cause just enough damage that you are fully recovered by your next workout. If Jazz if lifting one muscle group a week, he has a whole week to recover and can cause a lot of damage, and soreness, and still be in good shape. If you are going to lift 4 times a week, you have less than a day to recover, and being recovered is more than just not feeling sore.

    When Jazz is throwing weight on until he fails, and maybe even getting some negatives in after that, good chance he is going to be sore. You want to add a small amount over what you did last time, and then call it a day, because you are going to lift again in day or two, where you are going to add another small amount.

    Over time, several light increases should balance out with the fewer heavy increase approval.
  10. Jazz Hands's Avatar
    Fort, you absolutely should be doing lower body weights, and a little bit is better than nothing. It's worth it to get at least one good lower-body workout in per week.

    Don't worry about getting a big ass. It's the good kind of big, trust me. Beyond that, the glutes are very important for generating power in the lower body (think starts and turns). And if you limit yourself because you are worried about your butt, you will be holding back your quads in the process.

    The only difference in pull-up and chin-up is grip. I prefer chins because they use more overall muscle and thus allow for heavier weight. But varying grips is useful for preventing overuse injury. I'm assuming you've got the right definition here: chin-up is underhand, pull-up is overhand. Neutral grip is good, too.

    Ande made lat press up, and he gave it an awful name. Wolfie told him a while ago that it's more of a pull than a press, but he persists. I'm not sure exactly what the exercise is. I think it's one of those funny stroke-simulation moves I'm not so fond of.
  11. The Fortress's Avatar

    Can you increase weight in small increments each time you go or by weeks? (Jazz chime in too please.)

    I don't think I can lift 4 x per week this heavy. I'm too sore. Maybe every third day would be good. Or one extra workout could be core work.

    I think you should start a blog. It's just as important to keep track of your work as your weight work. You sure lift a lot for a distance type. Most distance swimmers spurn the weight room. (Over generalizing of course)
  12. The Fortress's Avatar

    OK, I'll try to pay more attention to lower body work. I have this notion that I'm relatively weak in the hips.

    I'm not that worried about my butt. I've already got the massive shoulders/back, might as well go whole hog. At least swimming doesn't give you big hips, even though you're otherwise a tank.

    Well, maybe I'll do chin ups next time. Going to continue to be careful with them.

    Maybe Ande is doing a standing lat pull down and calling it a lat press? That's a bit of a stroke simulation one. I kinda like that one though. It seems easier on the shoulders than the seated wide grip one that everyone is so fond of. Am I right about that? I did use a narrow grip though when I did those the other day.
  13. Chris Stevenson's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress
    Are you still on the fence about coming to Zones or intend to pass because of Clovis?
    I won't be swimming at Zones, my wife nixed that a month ago. (Well, of course she didn't outright say was one of those things where I knew that doing two "away" meets in 2+ weeks -- saddling her with sole parenting duties both times -- would have been asking too much.)
  14. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson
    I won't be swimming at Zones, my wife nixed that a month ago. (Well, of course she didn't outright say was one of those things where I knew that doing two "away" meets in 2+ weeks -- saddling her with sole parenting duties both times -- would have been asking too much.)
    Wise move! I try to be very careful about meet scheduling as well. (That's why I try to sneak in USA meets every once in awhile. I usually have to be there with my kid anyway.)

    Coming for Albatross though?
  15. The Fortress's Avatar
    Last time I did lunges, I thought I twinged my achilles ... Lunges not good for wobbly ankles?

    How does a weight belt help? Lifting heavy is all relative. I'm not doing anything compared to a guy. I'm just lifting more than a girl trying to "tone."
  16. The Fortress's Avatar
    You move your toes around when you're doing leg extensions?!

    What are the fancy exercises? lol

    Are you using a weight belt? I've never seen one girl at my gym with a weight belt and there are a couple stronger than me. Younger too, of course.
  17. Jazz Hands's Avatar
    Oh my god, if I read that stupid "young buck" line on me again I will throw up. As if I wasn't "creaky" the first time I did lunges. You adapt, you get over it. My advice for Fort remains: go all out.
  18. Jazz Hands's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SwimStud
    If you do it without weight it's ok; adding weight adds issues of balance and load onto joints like ankles and knees. If your posture is off it could lead to an injury.
    Oh, and this makes no sense! Your body is a weight. It's not a magical weight which is the limit of the amount you can safely handle. The entire point of strength training is to increase the amount of weight you can handle beyond what you are used to. If you're not doing that, you are failing.
  19. The Fortress's Avatar
    I've done lunges off and on and they haven't seemed to bother me other than an achilles twinge. My knees are solid ... so far.
  20. Iwannafly's Avatar
    Sorry Stud, but I'm with 'Hands here. Lunges do not increase your risk for injury, AS LONG AS, you pay attention to the small things. Don't let your knee extend beyond your foot on the lunging leg. Do keep your abs engaged to protect your lower back. And do go slowly so that you isolate the desired muscle groups and keep the weights under control. Lunges with weight will help strengthen ankles and knees because they force the smaller stabilizer muscles to help maintain balance.
    Leslie, I think you will find that you will only be sore like you are for a few workouts. If you keep them up a few times a week, you will quit getting sore after every workout.
    I would venture to say that unless you're doing ridiculously heavy squats, you don't need a weight belt if you remember to keep your abs engaged and not arch your back as a means to lift more weight. That's just an opinion formed by conversations with trainers, my experience, and conversations with the instructor I had for a weightlifting class I took in college (which wasn't all that long ago)!
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