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Albatross Results, March 21

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Made it out to MAC for the annual Albatross SCM meet. I love this meet because it's local and in the afternoon. As Chris and Onefish noted, the water was a bit too warm. Swam two events, don't have official times or splits yet. Felt pretty good during warm up. My legs felt heavy/tight though. This just confirms my thought that the legs need a LOT of rest/tapering to be really ready to go fast. A mini taper is good, but just not enough rest.

Edit: Put in splits

100 fly SCM, 1:09.80
32.77/36.02

As usual, thoughts of scratching filtered into my head. The 100 fly in meters is just so painful for me. Thankfully, it was the first event, so I didn't have to sit around for hours dwelling on it. I promised myself I could retire this event for 2009 if I swam it. Probably will do just that!

Anyway, went 1:09.8. Previous best was 1:12.1 from the Albatross meet the year before. I hoped to improve my time since I had not swum the event in a year, but not by this much with only a mini-taper. Very happy with the time. As usual, I died on the last 25, but a 4.2 second difference per 50 in fly in meters is not that bad for me. Chris suggested that as I continue to swim more, this may be less of a problem. I certainly don't see any evidence of that! I think I'd have to do more than 25s and 50s in practice. I haven't even done many 50s lately.

I did count my SDKs. I had planned or estimated that I would use a 9-7-7-7 pattern. I ended up using a 9-7-7 & 5-6ish pattern. I didn't push deep enough off my third turn, popped up prematurely, and had an awkward breakout.

My prior time was swum in a Pro and done before I started lifting heavy. Jimby is already yanking my chain and saying the 2.3 second improvement is all B70 assist. lol Maybe so, but I'll take the time! Speedster Michelina totally made my day by telling me my fly was pretty.

100 back SCM, 1:10.94
34.92/36.02

Since I was bumped out of the Chris-Clay heat, I had a nice race with Lisa Van Pelt-Diller. I decided to use Jimby's strategy for racing the 100 free that he had posted on the discussion forum. I may have taken it out a bit too easy on the first 50, but it's hard to tell as I have no idea what my splits were. The strategy seemed to work well and it was slightly less painful.

Edit: Got my splits. Yes, out too easy on the first 50. With my start, this race is effectively an even split for me. However, I really enjoyed swimming it this way and powering home the last 25.

It was a fun race. I would pull ahead of Lisa on the start/underwaters and she would catch me on the surface. I tried to speed into the final turn and then really pick up the turnover. Had a good last 25, and beat her by about .8 or so maybe. I didn't take that many SDKs off my turns. No idea how many, as I was too busy racin' to count. (I did do 12 on the start.) But the fact that the ones I did were effective suggests to me that I should do more. Need to work on the nose clip angle. I was told I was "looking" too much.

This was a PB as well. My previous best was a 1:11.7 last June in a B70 with a mini taper. So conditions were pretty equivalent. I swam the 1:11.7 at U of Md, which is a faster pool.

On a funny note, someone (can't remember who now) told me my race with Lisa was very similar to Chris' race with Clay.

Had to dash off without any warm down after the 100 back. Made it to my kid's meet with 15 minutes to spare in time to see her swim 2 PBs at finals. So a good swim day for the fam!

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Updated March 22nd, 2009 at 11:37 AM by The Fortress

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  1. qbrain's Avatar
    My previous best was a 1:11.7 last June in a B70 with a mini taper.
    I am sure the B70 actually gets faster the more you wear it, and that is why you are dropped time

    Nice quick meet. Guess you didn't have time to swim the 200 free because you had other obligations?
  2. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by qbrain
    I am sure the B70 actually gets faster the more you wear it, and that is why you are dropped time

    Nice quick meet. Guess you didn't have time to swim the 200 free because you had other obligations?
    Hahaha. Actually the 100 back I swam last June was my very first race ever in a B70. This 100 back was my 8th race in my second B70.

    Yes, had to rush off and miss the 200 free. Such a shame.
    Updated March 22nd, 2009 at 11:30 AM by The Fortress
  3. jim thornton's Avatar
    Leslie, congratulations on two more PRs. Dare I mention, quietly and in passing, that...

    I TOLD YOU SO!

    Because you are such a wonderful person, and because I preminisce no shortage of heartache beginning next Jan. 1 when your fleet of beloved B70 body kayaks is illegalized and your run of PRs takes, shall we say, a sabbatical, I think I will begin pre-therapy now.

    Just give me time to think up plausible reasons why your times might suddenly, and totally inexplicably, slow down. Let's see...not as long a taper? No! Yesterday's performances proved this doesn't really matter. The water in the pool too hot! No! Ditto.

    I know! You have to swim in the Chris Stevenson heat and get swamped in waves. Yes! That's it.

    Silent plea to meet directors everywhere: Next year, when Leslie must denude herself of the beloved boat she has been swim-paddling to glory in these past several years, please, I beg of ye, put Leslie next to Chris Stevenson in every race she does so that there will be a plausible explanation for performance decrements...
  4. The Fortress's Avatar
    A simple "good job" would have sufficed, dude. I hadn't swum the 100 fly in a year! I'm sure I wouldn't have dropped as much time yesterday if I had actually swum it at Rutgers and had a more recent time.

    Perhaps I'll see some plateauing/slowing down before the year is out just to foil your theory.

    Can you flog some other B70 wearing blogger or competitor for awhile? Yeesh! The B70 is old news now.
    Updated March 22nd, 2009 at 02:52 PM by The Fortress
  5. SwimStud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jim thornton
    Leslie, congratulations on two more PRs. Dare I mention, quietly and in passing, that...

    I TOLD YOU SO!

    Because you are such a wonderful person, and because I preminisce no shortage of heartache beginning next Jan. 1 when your fleet of beloved B70 body kayaks is illegalized and your run of PRs takes, shall we say, a sabbatical, I think I will begin pre-therapy now.

    Just give me time to think up plausible reasons why your times might suddenly, and totally inexplicably, slow down. Let's see...not as long a taper? No! Yesterday's performances proved this doesn't really matter. The water in the pool too hot! No! Ditto.

    I know! You have to swim in the Chris Stevenson heat and get swamped in waves. Yes! That's it.

    Silent plea to meet directors everywhere: Next year, when Leslie must denude herself of the beloved boat she has been swim-paddling to glory in these past several years, please, I beg of ye, put Leslie next to Chris Stevenson in every race she does so that there will be a plausible explanation for performance decrements...
    OMG this is really offensive if you ask me, which you didn't but hey. Sure Les got an initial benefit from a suit..as do all...but she's busted her butt and stayed relatively healthy and injury free.

    Others come on here bitching and moaning and excusing themselves about headaches, insomnia, painful 4 hour erections etc etc wrecking their prep before they get to the meet. They psyche themselves into a sub par performance and then go and perform, duh, sub par...

    Les, keep training well and healthily, I'm sure your times will drop until your body eventually turns 35 and you start to slow down. Either way I'm sure you'll be taking down records through the ages over the next half century.

    Signed
    Swimstud
    LLL Chariman and founder.

    For more info on LLL (Leave Leslie aLone) contact me through PM.
  6. tjrpatt's Avatar
    good job Leslie. You are on fire. Now, you just need to add the 200 fly to your event list!!!!!
  7. qbrain's Avatar
    Since I didn't come out and say it before, good job.
  8. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SwimStud
    Les, keep training well and healthily, I'm sure your times will drop until your body eventually turns 35 and you start to slow down.
    Lol, this was my first meet as a technical 48 year old, even though I'm still clinging to 47.

    I think I've set some personal health record. No major illness since last August. No idea why ... Dumb luck, I guess.
  9. The Fortress's Avatar
    Thanks Tom and Q!

    No 200 fly; I'd be sure to DQ. I can barely make a 100 legally, Tom.

    Went on the celebratory run, Q.
  10. jim thornton's Avatar
    Leslie, if you perceived my comments as being really offensive, I truly apologize. I did not intend this in any way. I was only referring to my "Leslie challenge" elsewhere on the forums wherein I predicted that if you went ahead and swam this meet in the B70, you would get PRs despite lack of taper, etc.

    Rich, I am not sure who exactly you mean that bitches and moans about "headaches, insomnia, painful 4 hour erections etc etc." I am pretty sure it wasn't me because I have not had an erection that lasted more than 33 seconds in years.

    Quibbles aside, Rich, why is it offensive to try to quantify the advantage a particular suit, which looks to be outlawed next year, may or may not give to swimmers? The fact that Leslie swims great times with this in no way detracts from the fact that she swims great times without it, too, though (in my mind) somewhat slower times in every event she's posted to date except for the 50 LCM free. All the competition Leslie faces in her age group presumably use B70s, too, so that when the suit is no longer legal, everyone will lose whatever advantage they may or may not have provided.

    Again, Leslie, sorry if I offended you. As for you, Richie Boy, your paternalistic model of Leslie Needs Protection offends me (well, not really. But two can play the "offended" card.)
  11. The Fortress's Avatar
    No offense, Jim. I've obviously, like all, swum faster with the B70. I guess I think the point you're missing, though, is that I'm still improving while swimming in the same suit. Yesterday's 100 back time can't be written off as B70 use, right? In 5/6 of my swims at Auburn, I had previously swum in a B70. I had previously swum the 50 fly in a B70 before your infamous video.

    I have no doubt this improvement trajectory will eventually end. (I may, don't know really, have maxed out on my weights-related improvement? I'm sure Jazz or Q might know better than me.) But I'm going to enjoy it while I can. I actually feel like I've worked pretty hard and not just "bought" improvement.

    I think you should undertake the "Jimby Challenge." You should forgo Coach Bill's workouts, do my workouts, my drylands and my weights and we'll see what effect that has on your 50-100-200 times. I bet they'd improve.
    Updated March 22nd, 2009 at 03:14 PM by The Fortress
  12. jim thornton's Avatar
    Leslie, actually in terms of your 100 back, I personally take credit for this by encouraging you to use the strategy you adopted.

    I definitely see you improving.

    I have an alterative Jimby Challenge in mind, which I will preview here (and perhaps elaborate in my vlog later.)

    To wit, since I can get nobody who has swum PRs in a B70 agree to swim one meet where he/she swims the same events (via time trials, or sprinting the first half of a 100 or 200 as a way to compare to a 50 or 100 of the same event on the previous or successive day), I propose the following:

    I will swim Colony Zones in a B70 that someone lends me for purposes of just this experiment. I am not in better shape than last year; there is good reason, in fact, to believe I am in worse shape. I am also a year older than my glory days as a Zonesman.

    If, with this borrowed B70, I swim better than last year--and I will do the exact same events--then we will have to acknowledge that, at least for me, Jim Thornton, the B70 confers an advantage over a new FS1.

    On the other hand, if I do the same or worse, I will publicly agree with anyone who will listen to me that the B70 makes no significant difference.

    In the event I go slower in the B70, I will furthermore make no excuses, from fever to 4-hour erectile problems, and simply acknowledge that I WAS WRONG!

    How many people do you know willing to subject themselves to such stakes?!
  13. ViveBene's Avatar
    Congratulations, Leslie!
    I have been reading your dryland training, etc., with interest, and will probably undertake part of it, being largely on my own at this point. I'll have to go far, far back, to when you first picked up a weight and said, "Now what do I do with it?!"
  14. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jim thornton
    Leslie, actually in terms of your 100 back, I personally take credit for this by encouraging you to use the strategy you adopted.

    I definitely see you improving.

    I have an alterative Jimby Challenge in mind, which I will preview here (and perhaps elaborate in my vlog later.)

    To wit, since I can get nobody who has swum PRs in a B70 agree to swim one meet where he/she swims the same events (via time trials, or sprinting the first half of a 100 or 200 as a way to compare to a 50 or 100 of the same event on the previous or successive day), I propose the following:

    I will swim Colony Zones in a B70 that someone lends me for purposes of just this experiment. I am not in better shape than last year; there is good reason, in fact, to believe I am in worse shape. I am also a year older than my glory days as a Zonesman.

    If, with this borrowed B70, I swim better than last year--and I will do the exact same events--then we will have to acknowledge that, at least for me, Jim Thornton, the B70 confers an advantage over a new FS1.

    On the other hand, if I do the same or worse, I will publicly agree with anyone who will listen to me that the B70 makes no significant difference.

    In the event I go slower in the B70, I will furthermore make no excuses, from fever to 4-hour erectile problems, and simply acknowledge that I WAS WRONG!

    How many people do you know willing to subject themselves to such stakes?!
    I don't think this analysis is correct, Jimby! You have showed consistent improvement in all your events during the last year and your rankings reflect that. I would expect you to keep improving, as you're on the "curve." So you could not attribute all improvement to B70 use.

    BTW, I know you only had a couple swims in it, but how do you think the Pro compared with the FS I?

    I would actually consider doing the 50 fly/B70 and the 50 fly/Pro at Zones. But I'm not entering the 100 fly or 200 IM to get a split. Way too painful, and not consistent with other important events I want to swim like the 50 breast.

    She Puff took your challenge. 50 fly poly tank vs. 50 fly B70. There was a .5 difference. This difference would obviously be less if she had been wearing a Pro instead of a poly tank.

    Plus, I do believe the suit helps some more than others. Paul Smith agrees that for someone my size (5'4", size 4), it has a smaller effect than for others. I think Wolfy really misses his B70.
    Updated March 22nd, 2009 at 03:45 PM by The Fortress
  15. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ViveBene
    Congratulations, Leslie!
    I have been reading your dryland training, etc., with interest, and will probably undertake part of it, being largely on my own at this point. I'll have to go far, far back, to when you first picked up a weight and said, "Now what do I do with it?!"
    Thanks Vive!

    I have always done light weights very sporadically. After I met Paul Smith in Austin, he urged me to start lifting heavier and sent me an article with a program he and Laura had been following. I began the week after Austin last May. At first, only 2x a week. Now I'm trying to get to 3, not quite there. But I also have increased drylands and done some harder drylands like the crunches on the incline bench. I love drylands! As my coach once said, they "make me feel alive." lol

    Good luck with the drylands. I think they'll make you feel stronger and more fit.
    Updated March 22nd, 2009 at 03:38 PM by The Fortress
  16. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jim thornton
    Leslie, actually in terms of your 100 back, I personally take credit for this by encouraging you to use the strategy you adopted.
    Jim is one humble guy, isn't he?
  17. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jim thornton
    Leslie, actually in terms of your 100 back, I personally take credit for this by encouraging you to use the strategy you adopted.
    Meant to say, I looked up my backstroke splits from the IGLA meet. I actually went out .5 faster there than yesterday and went .8 slower overall. So the strategy seemed to work well. Still, most would flog me for going out too slow based on my 50 time.
    Updated March 22nd, 2009 at 03:49 PM by The Fortress
  18. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by qbrain
    Jim is one humble guy, isn't he?
    He's a little extreme with the Occam's Razor approach lately ...

    I think LVPD gets more credit ...
  19. Ahelee Sue Osborn's Avatar
    Leslie...

    I know you (we all) love this chit chat discussion stuff. But seriously I hope no one listens to it as far as how low our times can drop.

    There are several 40+ women swimming their lifetime bests in events still! And I mean lifetime - not masters bests.
    I don't know about the 50 year olds except for Jenny Cook and myself, but we are also swimming some times that are lifetime bests. Jenny does have a B70 she swims in all the time now, but I haven't worn one yet!

    Its' a blast to swim best times - and very motivating. Everyone IS wearing a tech suit of some sort these days, so lets' just keep looking at improving personal best times.
    Even if they do ban our tech suits, which I doubt they will, who is to say we could never hit those times again?

    This bugs me like anything!

    The times being swum now may be swimming at a new level.
    I think we will be forced to train better and smarter with even more technique improvements to surpass the tech suit times, but why do people think it is impossible?

    I think the lazy swimmers will be the ones complaining the most. It won't be easy to swim fast times without a tech suit. And I am NOT saying it is easy swimming fast times with a tech suit now either!

    I think those of you lifting weights - and working on great body awareness, position, and feel of the water are going to be ahead of the game if we loose the floaty tech suits.

    Congrats on a great day of racing yesterday!
  20. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahelee Sue Osborn
    I think the lazy swimmers will be the ones complaining the most.
    Who is making odds on Jim vs. Ahelee? I've got $10 on Ahelee.
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