The FAF AFAP Digest

You're getting into some serious weights now. Not a lot of women can bench that much. And you're still new to it.

Edit: Wait a sec, is that barbell bench or a machine? 90 is a funny number for a barbell.

I was doing it on the machine -- still paranoid. However, we do have barbells going up in 10 lb increments up to 120.

By increasing an individual's max power output, you have increases in absolute strength, speed, endurance and stamina rather than simply strength gains.

Hmm, I remember saying something about this attitude just the other day...

Oh, I think I've only done the bench press maybe 5 times now.

I have some very vague recollection that I could do several reps at 150 in college.

Originally Posted by Jazz Hands

Hmm, I remember saying something about this attitude just the other day...

Yes, you did. You said it was wasteful to work on endurance in the gym when you should be working on strength. What do you think about the plyometric aspect though? And what if you did both kinds of pull ups for variety? (Of course, variety is against the Cross Fit ethos, as they are solely concerned with "power".)

These CrossFit pullup contests are crazy!

Brian says I could do a better job of them if I ate meat - LOL... thats' not going to happen.
But I think I could get it going pretty well for a tall chick

I'm going out to look for a bar!

Originally Posted by Ahelee Sue Osborn

These CrossFit pullup contests are crazy!

Brian says I could do a better job of them if I ate meat - LOL... thats' not going to happen.
But I think I could get it going pretty well for a tall chick

I'm going out to look for a bar!

You go girl!

I think you can do many more pull ups with the Kipping method.

And, BTW, I did 4 x 15 pullouts on a set in the pool yesterday.

Plyometrics, maybe. The kipping pull-up is an explosive move, I'll grant that. But that brings with it the dangers of explosive lifting, which I talked about yesterday.

I don't get why you'd want to do super-fast upper body moves for swimming, though. Your arms are never moving that fast in the water, so there's no real speed specificity. If you want speed work with real movement specificity, maybe you should do high-turnover fist swimming or something.

Plyometric training is a big deal and it has research behind it, but all of this research is for lower body jump training. There's soooo much more skill specificity going on there. Practice jumping, get better at jumping. That shouldn't surprise anyone. But this weirdo pull-up has very little resemblance to swimming. You know what resembles swimming? Swimming. Work on your speed in the water.

Also, machine bench press is not safer for your shoulders than free weight bench press. I think it's worse. Switch to dumbbells. You'll be able to use a lot less weight for the same effect, and that's safer.

Originally Posted by Jazz Hands

Also, machine bench press is not safer for your shoulders than free weight bench press. I think it's worse. Switch to dumbbells. You'll be able to use a lot less weight for the same effect, and that's safer.

I completely agree, but you SHOULD use a spotter based solely on personal experience. I was benching a relatively light weight, but I was doing a higher number of reps when I got fatigued toward the end of the last set. I though that I could get the last rep in, but I didn't quite make it back up. Instead of setting the weight on my chest and sitting up, I tried pushing a little extra on one side, and then I would follow that up with a little extra push on the other side. Needless to say, I could have been on one of those stupid people videos!
Nevertheless, impressive weight lifting Fort!

Originally Posted by Iwannafly

I completely agree, but you SHOULD use a spotter based solely on personal experience. I was benching a relatively light weight, but I was doing a higher number of reps when I got fatigued toward the end of the last set. I though that I could get the last rep in, but I didn't quite make it back up. Instead of setting the weight on my chest and sitting up, I tried pushing a little extra on one side, and then I would follow that up with a little extra push on the other side. Needless to say, I could have been on one of those stupid people videos!
Nevertheless, impressive weight lifting Fort!

Why is it safer than the machine exactly? I was really using that for lack of a spotter.

Sorry about the mishap!

Wow! Good job on the pull-ups.

Does your gym have a hip abductor/adductor machine? Working out on that machine is good for hips as well.

Originally Posted by Jazz Hands

I don't get why you'd want to do super-fast upper body moves for swimming, though. Your arms are never moving that fast in the water, so there's no real speed specificity.

Plyometric training is a big deal and it has research behind it, but all of this research is for lower body jump training. There's soooo much more skill specificity going on there. Practice jumping, get better at jumping. That shouldn't surprise anyone. But this weirdo pull-up has very little resemblance to swimming. You know what resembles swimming? Swimming. Work on your speed in the water.

Your arms are never moving that fast in the water?

Now, I grant you that the Kipping doesn't resemble swimming, but neither does a regular pull up that much yet it's supposed to be good for swimming. Since when was swim specificity a key selling point for you anyway? lol Doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with using more muscles. Isn't that why the deadlift is so great?

As to why I'd want to try it, just because it looks fun. I do things that have nothing to do with swimming just because I like them. Also, as Ahelee was sort of noting, there's something cool about this crazy fitness stuff. Being and feeling fit is fun.

Originally Posted by elise526

Wow! Good job on the pull-ups.

Does your gym have a hip abductor/adductor machine? Working out on that machine is good for hips as well.

Thanks!

I'm leary of doing these still until my hip is 100%. It's much better, but it bothered me after I spent so many hours driving last weekend.

Speed dryland training gets hyped for sprinters because of specificity. If you want to do it because it's "fun," that's something else entirely. If you want to do things that will actually make you faster, you should have some idea of how and why they make you faster.

Strength is a general attribute that is best trained with, well, strength training. Funny how that works. Improved strength is characterized by muscle hypertrophy and certain neural adaptations (although a lot of neural adaptation is skill-specific, especially anything involving coordination). These adaptations are useful for swimming, for the same reason that anabolic steroids are useful for swimming.

I don't think the benefits of speed/power training are nearly as general. They could be, but I'm skeptical, and I have to weigh that against my experience with joint pain.

Originally Posted by Jazz Hands

Speed dryland training gets hyped for sprinters because of specificity. If you want to do it because it's "fun," that's something else entirely. If you want to do things that will actually make you faster, you should have some idea of how and why they make you faster.

I don't think the benefits of speed/power training are nearly as general. They could be, but I'm skeptical, and I have to weigh that against my experience with joint pain.

How is speed dryland specific to swimming? That sounds like what She Puff is doing in her SWAT boot camps.

So you think regular pull ups will make you faster but Kipping pull ups won't?

It's supposedly specific to swimming. The catch is, it's not specific at all and it's a waste of time. That's my opinion.

Kipping pull-ups compared to nothing at all might make you faster. But we're not comparing to nothing at all. You only have a certain number of hours to train each week, I'm assuming, and certain amount of energy you can use in the weight room. You're best off if you actually work on strength with that time and energy. Crossfit is neutered strength training. I've said it before: that makes no sense at all to me. If you want strength, train for strength.

Originally Posted by Iwannafly

I completely agree, but you SHOULD use a spotter based solely on personal experience.

I agree that if you can have a spotter (even a gym employee), to use one.

That said, I rarely have a spotter, no matter what I do at the gym. I do keep an eye on others near me, and I've noticed others do the same for me (once someone ran up to me when I took dumbells that were too heavy). I bench with both a barbell and also with dumbells. Whenever I start to waiver, I stop, don't take any chances.

You also asked about core work. I try to incorporate some core things into my other stuff. For example, when doing dumbell chest presses, I'll put my feet up on the bench. If you aren't used to it, you may have to drop some weight, as you loose some stability -v- having your feet on the floor. If you are doing intensive abs stuff, you should devote a separate day/task for it. But I usually try to throw a little abs/core work on every day--I begin my day with The Plank, I'll do some crunches after a run, I'll use the Ab-X, do elevated situps, etc after weights. Heck, if you do pull-ups and hold your stomach tight, you should notice your stomach burning. Holding your stomach tight for everything, even swimming, can have a similar impact.

Fort, I think you have what I would call the "shiny things" approach to dryland training right now. The way it appears to work is that you see something on the internet, or somebody tells you about an exercise, and you think "oh look a shiny new exercise!" And you try to squeeze it into your workouts.

The problem with shiny things training is that the end result is not a training regimen at all; it's a collection of shiny things. I know you're all about enjoyment of the process, and so am I, but I enjoy what I'm doing within boundaries of program design, and those boundaries are based on principles of what has worked for me, what works for others, and what I think might work.

No exercise should be evaluated in isolation. "Will X make me swim faster?" where X is a single exercise, is always a silly question, because X is always such a small fraction of the overall program. The real question is what consistent habits and general long-term attributes of your training program will make you faster.

I'll use the pool analogy again. No serious swimmer asks, "Will breaststroke make my freestyle faster?" with the intent to swim breaststroke if and only if the answer is yes. Instead, we think about attributes like volume, pace, and kick/pull balance. Weight training is no different. You need to step back and think about questions like: Am I covering all of the muscles I need to? Is the load sufficient? Is the volume sufficient? Am I balancing training stress across different muscle groups appropriately for my sport?

Originally Posted by Jazz Hands

It's supposedly specific to swimming. The catch is, it's not specific at all and it's a waste of time. That's my opinion.

Kipping pull-ups compared to nothing at all might make you faster. But we're not comparing to nothing at all. You only have a certain number of hours to train each week, I'm assuming, and certain amount of energy you can use in the weight room. You're best off if you actually work on strength with that time and energy. Crossfit is neutered strength training. I've said it before: that makes no sense at all to me. If you want strength, train for strength.

At some point, is it good not to focus on just raw strength though? I assume that's best for 50s and maybe 100s. (Although Jim seems to think weights don't help 100s ...) But what about strength endurance training if you're racing longer events?

Originally Posted by aztimm

If you are doing intensive abs stuff, you should devote a separate day/task for it. But I usually try to throw a little abs/core work on every day--I begin my day with The Plank, I'll do some crunches after a run, I'll use the Ab-X, do elevated situps, etc after weights. Heck, if you do pull-ups and hold your stomach tight, you should notice your stomach burning. Holding your stomach tight for everything, even swimming, can have a similar impact.

I usually mix the core in with the weights. Only occasionally have a core only session. What are you doing for "intensive abs"?