The FAF AFAP Digest

Really sad to read about the demise of Jim's 100 fr scm TT No. 1 time and AA. He worked really hard for it, should be proud, and deserves the credit. Seems weird that usms would all of sudden pick on that rather famous Baltimore pool, not that i've become jaded or anything after about 50 years of watching shat happen in sports. Will email him. What truly matters, i think, is what he knows he accomplished, it's his journey, and he knows he did it, no matter what they concoct.

Originally Posted by Sojerz

Really sad to read about the demise of Jim's 100 fr scm TT No. 1 time and AA. He worked really hard for it, should be proud, and deserves the credit. Seems weird that usms would all of sudden pick on that rather famous Baltimore pool, not that i've become jaded or anything after about 50 years of watching shat happen in sports. Will email him. What truly matters, i think, is what he knows he accomplished, it's his journey, and he knows he did it, no matter what they concoct.

Agree. It was a journey -- traveling to 3 pools for one race. But we have to enjoy the journey because we don't always get the results we want.

They didn't really pick on the pool. It seems there were deliberate misrepresentations made about measurements being on file. And every TT time has to be in a measured pool.

Jim's time was still the fastest.

I think it is a stinky situation for all involved (NBAC meet). I feel for Jim as he must feel like he has been snake bitten for all of these obscure gotcha's. I also feel for the LMSC volunteers because they were told everything was kosher. I have to say if I was told the pool was measured I would have taken their word for it, too. For the RMST meet at GMU in November, we didn't have a pool measurement on file because there had never been a (masters) SCM meet at GMU. So the plan was to measure the pool prior to the meet (which they did). It certainly is *possible* the refs could have measured the pool and not realized it was short until a few days later when they mailed me the forms (when you measure a 25m pool if you use English units you may not realize it is supposed to be at least 82 feet, 1/4 inch). And you can't just look at Jim's 100 free time and say it would still be first place, therefore accept all times in the meet. Where do you draw the line on which times are eligible for TT and which times are not? Like I said, it is an unfortunate situation for all. I hope Jim is still psyched he went 1:01+.

Yep, unfortunate. And I'm sure USMS volunteers feel badly about what happened. With the rules the way they are, they really had no choice in the matter. I think Jim is already in "onward" mode. But it is normal to have a "grieving" period.

It does make me a tiny bit leery about going to MD series meets though ...

If a bulkhead pool is measured in SCM once, is that a sufficient measurement for future meets? Or do bulkhead pools have to be measured before every meet?

Originally Posted by The Fortress

If a bulkhead pool is measured in SCM once, is that a sufficient measurement for future meets? Or do bulkhead pools have to be measured before every meet?

All bulkhead courses must be measured before and after each session. So for Colonies Zones at GMU, that means they need to take 6 measurements.

I just read through the USA-S competition pool measurement requirements - not sure if they are a little different but similar to usms, which i haven't had time to track down. At any rate, the pool is supposed to be measured full of water presumabley at competition temperature (~76-78 F) with the lane lines in place, and i'm wondering if this would make a difference. Jim's blog indicates the pool was empty and perhaps ambient air temperatures were lower when they measured it. Expansion resulting from aditional water pressure on the ends and higher temperatures seems possible. (there are expansion joints in concrete roadways, sidewalks, bridges and other structures for this reason). I'm wondering if they re-measured it this summer under the correct conditions, and it meets the minimum length, if the record would then be corrected.
Regarding records in a bulkheaded pool, seems like the surveyor/engineer would have to be on-hand to be sure it was measured before anyone messed with bulkhead pins - seems like a very special provision for local meets.

Originally Posted by Sojerz

I just read through the USA-S competition pool measurement requirements - not sure if they are a little different but similar to usms, which i haven't had time to track down. At any rate, the pool is supposed to be measured full of water presumabley at competition temperature (~76-78 F) with the lane lines in place, and i'm wondering if this would make a difference. Jim's blog indicates the pool was empty and perhaps ambient air temperatures were lower when they measured it. Expansion resulting from aditional water pressure on the ends and higher temperatures seems possible. (there are expansion joints in concrete roadways, sidewalks, bridges and other structures for this reason). I'm wondering if they re-measured it this summer under the correct conditions, and it meets the minimum length, if the record would then be corrected.
Regarding records in a bulkheaded pool, seems like the surveyor/engineer would have to be on-hand to be sure it was measured before anyone messed with bulkhead pins - seems like a very special provision for local meets.

I would imagine cold temps and no water could make some difference. I'm not sure if it's 3 inches difference.

You make a good point in that last sentence. Is it that hard to adjust a bulkhead? If no one can do it, do you just call off the meet? I also wonder what would happen if the bulkhead shifted during a championship meet ... someday that's gonna happen and it won't be pretty.

Originally Posted by jroddin

All bulkhead courses must be measured before and after each session. So for Colonies Zones at GMU, that means they need to take 6 measurements.

Has there ever been a situation where a bulkhead has measured short after a meet in USMS?

Someone posted on jim's forum thread a meet where the bulkhead moved during the meet. Because of that possibility and the need to have measurements taken right after the record swim, there would seem to be a greater likelihood that one's local meet swim might not be counted if it's in a bulkheaded pool. Maybe local bulkheaded pools are not good bets for taper meets. Not that i have to worry anyway.

Originally Posted by Sojerz

Someone posted on jim's forum thread a meet where the bulkhead moved during the meet. Because of that possibility and the need to have measurements taken right after the record swim, there would seem to be a greater likelihood that one's local meet swim might not be counted if it's in a bulkheaded pool. Maybe local bulkheaded pools are not good bets for taper meets. Not that i have to worry anyway.

They are risky. But we have a couple local meets where I implicitly trust the meet directors -- Cheryl Ward and Jeff Roddin.

The other disadvantage of tapering for smaller local meets is that they are usually mixed gender.

Originally Posted by Sojerz

Someone posted on jim's forum thread a meet where the bulkhead moved during the meet.

I didn't see that post. On the Horror Stories thread?

Originally Posted by The Fortress

The other disadvantage of tapering for smaller local meets is that they are usually mixed gender.

Or you just have to get into a different LMSC that your current one for "smaller local meets". In my LMSC, you'd more than likely be one of the fastest ones there in the sprint events among both males and females. Some of the time, the fastest one is a 25+ female who's been setting national records lately.

Well, if you really are the fastest, you're not drowning in some guys wake. I wouldn't be thrilled with swimming the 50 free or 50 fly next to some big fast guy.

And guys are worse sandbaggers than women. :-)

Originally Posted by The Fortress

Has there ever been a situation where a bulkhead has measured short after a meet in USMS?

Yes, several times. At least once in PV.

Originally Posted by jroddin

Yes, several times. At least once in PV.

Yikes, hope it never happens during a championship meet!