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The FAF AFAP Digest

Wednesday, May 6

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Run:

4 mile trail run. Had the plods, as expected. Still good to get outside. Think I'm sticking my calves in a bucket of ice tonight.

Swim/SCY/Solo:

Warm up:

400 swim
200 kick

8 x 50 @ 1:00, various short axis drills
(one arm fly, caterpillar, doggie paddle, Geek's one arm BR drill)

16 x 25, alternate shooter on back, no fins, and BR kick on back

50 EZ

Aerobic Sets:

4 x 200 tempo dolphin kick w/board & MF @ 2:50

100 EZ

20 x 50 backstroke w/fins @ :45
50 EZ after 10
1-10 around :34-35
11-15, :34s (cramped some in here)
16-20, :33s

200 C/D

Total: 3600

Good luck to all those competing at Clovis!!!!

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Categories
Swim Workouts , Running

Comments

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  1. aztimm's Avatar
    What kind of a pace do you hold for your runs? I do very little trail running, but when I do it is much slower. Is it rough enough that you wear trail running shoes?

    Wow, lots of kicking....are your legs trashed again? How much time between the run and your swim? Do you drink any recovery drinks?
  2. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by aztimm
    What kind of a pace do you hold for your runs? I do very little trail running, but when I do it is much slower. Is it rough enough that you wear trail running shoes?

    Wow, lots of kicking....are your legs trashed again? How much time between the run and your swim? Do you drink any recovery drinks?
    I'm definitely slower on trail runs too. But they're so much kinder to my ankles and shins. I don't use special shoes, but I could probably use them for one of the trails I periodically run on. I was probably at 10 minute pace today, pretty slow. Usually I'm faster than that -- nowhere near your lastest 7:00+ pace though. Running is just leisurely and zen for me these days.

    I went right to the pool after running (so, 15 minute break) and ate a balance bar on the way. Meant to bring a gatorade to the pool, but I forgot it. Not ideal! But I went home to eat and felt OK. I have started using the G2 pretty regularly after practice though. I have Endurox in the house, but dislike the chocolate flavor.

    My legs are still pretty trashed. I was cramping at the end of my backstroke set today. It always takes awhile to get going again after taper.
  3. quicksilver's Avatar
    Same here on the trails. A stray rock or uneven surface is always lurking on the paths.
    Rolling an ankle is not something you want to have happen. I've done that even on smooth pavement.

    So, you're human after all! You'll be Fortified soon enough.
  4. aztimm's Avatar
    I haven't done a 'brick' since I did triathlons back in the mid-90s. You essentially did a run-swim brick today... My body usually needs a little time to relax between workouts. Now that the weather is warming up, I'll start jumping in my backyard pool to cool off after a run (for a month it will be cool).

    It is just too easy for me to run along the canal near my house (a 2-3 min walk from my garage), I'm very spoiled. I did a trail run in the Prescott, AZ area last year and it was crazy...huge rocks, fallen trees, tree roots, etc...turned into more of a hike for much of the 'trail run'.

    And I'm as shocked with my running improvements lately as everyone else. Running with someone has definitely helped, and finally getting a grip on 'easy speed' is helping. Staying active (somewhat) and not just zoning out during longer runs has also helped. The iPod is both a blessing and a curse...if a slowish song comes on (ala The Carpenters), it is too easy to just let my mind wander, but that usually doesn't happen with something like Bush, The Cult, or Nine Inch Nails. If you asked me a year ago if I'd ever get back to my peak running speed, I'd have laughed...but now I think I have a chance.
    But that's the nice thing with swimming, I didn't seriously swim when I was younger, so every time I swim in a meet, it is usually a PB.
  5. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by quicksilver
    Same here on the trails. A stray rock or uneven surface is always lurking on the paths.
    Rolling an ankle is not something you want to have happen. I've done that even on smooth pavement.

    So, you're human after all! You'll be Fortified soon enough.
    I'm all too human all the time, Quick!

    I rolled an ankle last year on this trail running down a grassy hill. Took 3 months to get back to normal. But, still, beats asphalt and concrete any day.
  6. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by aztimm
    I haven't done a 'brick' since I did triathlons back in the mid-90s. You essentially did a run-swim brick today... My body usually needs a little time to relax between workouts. Now that the weather is warming up, I'll start jumping in my backyard pool to cool off after a run (for a month it will be cool).

    It is just too easy for me to run along the canal near my house (a 2-3 min walk from my garage), I'm very spoiled. I did a trail run in the Prescott, AZ area last year and it was crazy...huge rocks, fallen trees, tree roots, etc...turned into more of a hike for much of the 'trail run'.

    And I'm as shocked with my running improvements lately as everyone else. Running with someone has definitely helped, and finally getting a grip on 'easy speed' is helping. Staying active (somewhat) and not just zoning out during longer runs has also helped. The iPod is both a blessing and a curse...if a slowish song comes on (ala The Carpenters), it is too easy to just let my mind wander, but that usually doesn't happen with something like Bush, The Cult, or Nine Inch Nails. If you asked me a year ago if I'd ever get back to my peak running speed, I'd have laughed...but now I think I have a chance.
    But that's the nice thing with swimming, I didn't seriously swim when I was younger, so every time I swim in a meet, it is usually a PB.
    You're right, it was a brick. Hadn't thought of it that way ... I prefer more time between workouts too. But sometimes I attempt to get a few hours of work in in the morning, and then the workouts get compressed. I usually end up doing my weight-swims back to back as well.

    It's very cool that you're running is going so well! You need to swim in a meet so we can tell if it's helping your swimming!
  7. SwimStud's Avatar
    Yes Tim do a meet but don't swim faster than me
  8. quicksilver's Avatar
    I'm all too human all the time, Quick!
    yes...super human I read the blog.
  9. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by quicksilver
    yes...super human I read the blog.
    lol

    Well, I was thinking of doing "THE 200 set" today ... but didn't quite have the time or energy to do it at the end. Might try it on Friday though!
  10. quicksilver's Avatar
    200's are the kryptonite of super sprinters.
    But....in theory, you should go at least minute for the 100 back if you dabbled in aerobic work a little more.

    27.9 x 2 + 4 seconds is a minute flat. You can do it, if not faster.
  11. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by quicksilver
    200's are the kryptonite of super sprinters.
    But....in theory, you should go at least minute for the 100 back if you dabbled in aerobic work a little more.

    27.9 x 2 + 4 seconds is a minute flat. You can do it, if not faster.
    That forumula doesn't work for my 100s! Though I think I would have gone faster than I did at Auburn if I'd swum the 100 at CZ ...

    I wonder if it's more aerobic work I need for the 100s or more sets of all out 100s? Or maybe both?
  12. quicksilver's Avatar
    That prediction formula seems to work well for age groupers. Maybe 5 more seconds is more like it for masters?
    More aerobic work will definitely help your 100.

    A mix of both hard work and sprinting seems to be a consistent formula with the fast swimmers here.
    Chris, Ande and Patrick do high quality aerobic swims, and they also have their Fast Friday or speed sets.

    I'm going to try more of that (test sets) for next year.
  13. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by quicksilver
    That prediction formula seems to work well for age groupers. Maybe 5 more seconds is more like it for masters?
    More aerobic work will definitely help your 100.

    A mix of both hard work and sprinting seems to be a consistent formula with the fast swimmers here.
    Chris, Ande and Patrick do high quality aerobic swims, and they also have their Fast Friday or speed sets.

    I'm going to try more of that (test sets) for next year.
    But Ande's the only real sprinter of those 3 ... I did read with interest that Mike Ross does almost exclusively anaerobic work + recovery swimming. That's what caused me to wonder if I should do more anaerobic test sets of 6 x 100, etc. I've been lazy about that this season. (Of course, that set hurts much more than 8 x 50.) Maybe I need an "Aerobic Friday"?

    Seriously, though, I plan on more aerobic work over the summer, as I swim with my team more then.

    Oh, I'm way off that formula even with 5 seconds ...

    Do you have any particular sets to suggest to improve my 100 back?
  14. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress
    Do you have any particular sets to suggest to improve my 100 back?
    Fort, Quick is busy, so he wanted me to let you know that doing the "200 set" back, with the same intervals will really improve your 100 back.

    If you live.
  15. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by qbrain
    Fort, Quick is busy, so he wanted me to let you know that doing the "200 set" back, with the same intervals will really improve your 100 back.

    If you live.
    Hahaha. Probably won't on those intervals. May do it on Friday! Right now, I'm going to rock out at the gym.
  16. quicksilver's Avatar
    Yes, Good answer... but training for 200's might dull the very sensitive nervous systems of sprinters.
    It's important to work hard, yet at the same time, keep the fast twitch muscles firing.

    I was lacking this formula in the past season.
    Though I became a very good workout swimmer, my sprinting abilities kind of dwindled.

    Favorite set: 10 x 75 ...lots of rest... like 1:15 or 1:20
    Blast every one of them. You should be able to swim fast, recover well for the next one... yet feel as if your heart's going to explode.

    I went my best masters 100 free (:50 point) about 5 years ago just on a steady diet of that set.
    Engine building sets ideally should to be in the range of 1,000 yards or more....unless you're doing sprint work.
  17. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by quicksilver
    Yes, Good answer... but training for 200's might dull the very sensitive nervous systems of sprinters.
    It's important to work hard, yet at the same time, keep the fast twitch muscles firing.

    I was lacking this formula in the past season.
    Though I became a very good workout swimmer, my sprinting abilities kind of dwindled.

    Favorite set: 10 x 75 ...lots of rest... like 1:15 or 1:20
    Blast every one of them. You should be able to swim fast, recover well for the next one... yet feel as if your heart's going to explode.

    I went my best masters 100 free (:50 point) about 5 years ago just on a steady diet of that set.
    Engine building sets ideally should to be in the range of 1,000 yards or more....unless you're doing sprint work.
    The 10 x 75 definitely sounds like the ticket for the 100. Although the heart exploding part sounds rather difficult. lol Thanks!

    I have no desire to train for the 200, though I will continue to do the 200 back periodically. After all this lifting and sprinting, I want to leave my CNS in sprinter mode!

    I wonder how long it takes to re-train your CNS to/from sprinter or mid D? And I wonder if piling on slow running or spinning effects the sprinter CNS?
    Updated May 7th, 2009 at 03:11 PM by The Fortress
  18. quicksilver's Avatar
    I wonder how long it takes to re-train your CNS to/from sprinter or mid D? And I wonder if piling on slow running or spinning effects the sprinter CNS?
    Good questions. We have a few resident doctors at our pool. One of them inisists that twice a week (of sprinting) is enough to jolt your mitochondria into action. A test set will do wonders for you...rather than grinding through yard after yard of a steady pace.

    But you do need to have a strong base. As you said in your earlier post a mix of both is ideally the way to go.

    I know you don't like 100's... which is why the 75's can do the trick.
    Believe it or not...I'm off to lift weights.
  19. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by quicksilver
    Good questions. We have a few resident doctors at our pool. One of them inisists that twice a week (of sprinting) is enough to jolt your mitochondria into action. A test set will do wonders for you...rather than grinding through yard after yard of a steady pace.

    But you do need to have a strong base. As you said in your earlier post a mix of both is ideally the way to go.

    I know you don't like 100's... which is why the 75's can do the trick.
    Believe it or not...I'm off to lift weights.
    No, I like 100s, and want to keep improving/swimming them effectively. I don't think of myself as just a 50s swimmer. I just complain about the 100 fly because it's difficult!

    I recall Rich Abrahams saying his aerobic sets were 1000 yards or less, so that's a good benchmark.

    Happy lifting!
  20. quicksilver's Avatar
    Sorry, what I intended to say was...I know you like racing the 100's...just not doing interval sets of 100's in practice.
    I recall you said they were very boring.

    If you could try 10 x 100 with a challenging interval now and again, you'll build up the stamina to race the distance a bit harder.
    We dabble with very tight intervals by doing increasingly faster sets of 3 with variations in the interval. For you, that might mean 1:30 1:25 1:20 (on your backstroke) 3 rounds of 3... with the last one as a hard swim. Ten total.

    You only have to push the 3rd one hard. Swim skillfully on the easier two intervals while preparing to turn up the intensity again on number 3, ans so on. It's almost like fartlek swimming, and it does a great job of building an aerobic base, especially if you try your many dolphin kicks during the set.

    Weight lifting was a good endorphin rush!
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