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Swimming with Speedo, Thursday, Sept. 10

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by , September 10th, 2009 at 07:41 PM (1912 Views)
Traveled to Mason today to swim with Speedo -- the teammate I never get to train with because he prefers the 4:45 am sessions with Coach Distance.

SCY/Swim:

Today, we did a power sprint workout thusly:

Warm up:

700 variety swim, kick, drill

10 x 50 free @ 45

10 x 25 shooters @ :30
(5 belly, 5 back)

50 EZ

Nasty Ass Power Kick Set:

5 x 100 w/~30sec between, done by 25s as:

*** Push off, kick 12-13 high cycle SDK's surfacing into cruise free with a strong 6 beat (overkick);
*** at the first wall finish hands first and go immediately into a 10 second all out kick against the wall (painful);
*** Stop, then backstroke start (no blocks today ), 12-13 high cycle SDK's then cruise backstroke (no overkicking for me on backstroke, don't like it), race finish touch on the opposite wall;
*** immediately start 3rd 25 doing forward "V" sit scull (NOT on your back, feet out of the water looking toward the opposite side sculling, body in a V with ass toward the bottom of the pool and back toward wall). As previously indicated, Speedo totally cheated on these!
*** At the final wall when your feet touch pull into the wall then explode with 12-13 high cycle SDK's and then easy free to wall.
*** 15 wall ups + 50 bicycles (Pete didn't look too happy starting these, though he was very gung ho on the wall ups.)

At the time, this didn't seem nearly as nasty as the last time I did this set. You do get to recover some on the sculling part. However, I'm feeling rather thrashed now, so I think I am feeling the effects. I'm sure Pete is fresh as a daisy and plowing through his one hour Lezak routine tonight. :-P Or, perhaps he feels as thrashed as me and will content himself with one of his specialty beers. I know I'm having some pinot tonight.

100 EZ

Sprint Set:

8 x 25 AFAP w/fins + 25 EZ @ 2:00

7 free
1 back shooter no fins

Unlike me, Pete actually looked at the clock. He was going mid 11s on free, so I think I was a high 10 or 11.0 or so. The first 5 felt pretty good. Felt like I was petering out and having sloppy breakouts on #6-7. Switched to a back shooter on the last one. Went 15. I cramped some during these; need to order Leg Cramps.

300 EZ

Total: 2800

15 minutes in hottub

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Commentary:

I feel like I did a lot more yardage than I actually did ...

Doing the power kick/dryland set right before the speed set made for a hard workout. I think if you really wanted to focus exclusively on sprint speed, it might be better to do the 8 x 25s as a separate workout. On the other hand, it's good to get used to going fast when you're tired. And halfway through the 25s, I definitely felt tired. I tried not to whine as Pete, like most speedy Mason masters and unlike Hulk (;0), is not a whiner. But I suspect he was secretly puking in the locker room after our practice, though he professed to be rushing off to go back to work. He did concede that doing this set regularly would improve his kicking and racing.

Pete and I briefly discussed Cross Fit, strength etc. He mentioned that he had overheard a lifter in the weight room comment that is was desirable to do both power lifting and speed working on the same day in the weight room. Apparently, mixing a workout this way, enhances both power and speed more effectively. We were hoping Q or Jazz could comment on that ...

This was interesting to me as I've been planning on doing both power and speed lifting the next few months (and not periodizing it like Lezak). But it hadn't occurred to me to do both in the same session.

OK, feeling a bit . Shoulder has been cranky the last couple days so I am doing 3 x 10 minutes of icing tonight a la Hulk.

Oh, one of our new teammates was there training at lunchtime. He's young and pretty fast. He looked in awe of Pete when I said he was the fastest freestyler on our team and told his times!

Wetsuit:

My 2XU arrived in the mail today. I think I'll try it on tomorrow. It is ridiculously heavy and fat and squashy. Tomorrow, I plan to hit the weight room in the am and then go to Mason to swim in it. The other pools I frequent are just too warm.

I love that it says "max buoyancy" right on the suit.

Med Ball in the pool:

This looks really really hard.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPAXAYq_T-w&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube - Faster Fast Sprint Freestyle Training for Explosive Speed & Power with Richard Quick, Brett Hawke and Bryan Karkoska[/ame]

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Updated September 11th, 2009 at 07:02 PM by The Fortress

Categories
Swim Workouts , Strength Training and Dryland Workouts

Comments

  1. qbrain's Avatar
    He mentioned that he had overheard a lifter in the weight room comment that is was desirable to do both power lifting and speed working on the same day in the weight room. Apparently, mixing a workout this way, enhances both power and speed more effectively. We were hoping Q or Jazz could comment on that ...
    First, I don't trust lifters comments without lots of thought. You can get big without knowing why you got big.

    What would you define power lifting and speed lifting? Power lifters are trying to complete a lift, so they don't want to go slow, they don't lift at an even pace, they just lift to complete the lift.

    If you define power lifting as lifting near your working max, and speed lifting as lifting a lighter weight at a higher tempo, don't you do both, aka warm up sets and working sets?

    If you do too many speed sets, it will limit what you have left for your working sets...

    I really don't have a convincing argument one way or another.
  2. elise526's Avatar
    I've been talking to a coach who is a level 5 ASCA coach and who has trained several Olympians. He says CrossFit is not a good idea for folks over 42 or 43. Too much risk for injuries to the joints, and robs you of needed energy for more important workouts.

    I've got a friend who really wants me to do it with her but I know myself too well. I'll get too competitive with the combination of amount of the weight and speed.

    Be careful with speed sets is the word I've gotten through the grapevine.
    Updated September 10th, 2009 at 08:16 PM by elise526
  3. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by elise526
    I've been talking to a coach who is a level 5 ASCA coach and who has trained several Olympians. He says CrossFit is not a good idea for folks over 42 or 43. Too much risk for injuries to the joints, and robs you of needed energy for more important workouts.

    I've got a friend who really wants me to do it with her but I know myself too well. I'll get too competitive with the combination of amount of the weight and speed.

    Be careful with speed sets is the word I've gotten through the grapevine.
    I'm not all that surprised about the Cross Fit advice. But does it apply to well conditioned athletes in their 40s? I can see doing some of their workouts/exercises with some modification. Or skipping the really high impact stuff like those Kipling pull ups Jazz hates.

    Why does the grapevine think speed sets are bad? Too much strain on the joints?
    Updated September 10th, 2009 at 09:54 PM by The Fortress
  4. Speedo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress
    *** 15 wall ups + 50 bicycles (Pete didn't look too happy starting these, though he was very gung ho on the wall ups.)
    Admittedly getting tired on these, but was more concerned with making an innapropriate noise between a wet suit and a vinyl mat with a new training partner.

    Dude, that guy Mike (?) was ripped. I'd seen him there before and just assumed he was cross training for cage fighting or something. The Robert DeNiro tat doesn't hurt the image, either.
  5. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by qbrain
    First, I don't trust lifters comments without lots of thought. You can get big without knowing why you got big.

    What would you define power lifting and speed lifting? Power lifters are trying to complete a lift, so they don't want to go slow, they don't lift at an even pace, they just lift to complete the lift.

    If you define power lifting as lifting near your working max, and speed lifting as lifting a lighter weight at a higher tempo, don't you do both, aka warm up sets and working sets?
    I guess I was thinking of "power" lifting as lifting for strength and "speed" lifting as more explosive lifting.

    In fact, most of the time I'm atrocious about doing warm up sets in the weight room ... I probably should do more. I'm just not lifting at max weight yet, so I haven't felt too much of a need. Perhaps this isn't so wise?

    No idea about the gravitas of the commentor ...
  6. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo
    Admittedly getting tired on these, but was more concerned with making an innapropriate noise between a wet suit and a vinyl mat with a new training partner.

    Dude, that guy Mike (?) was ripped. I'd seen him there before and just assumed he was cross training for cage fighting or something. The Robert DeNiro tat doesn't hurt the image, either.
    Puh-lease. You should hear some of the comments Wally makes at practice. And I often share a lane with William and his Tums sitting poolside ...

    Mike Harris. He is lean and ripped. He professes to not be in swimming shape. He trained at Springhill Rec solo for awhile last year when I was there before he switched to Mason. I used to think of him as the Jazz of No. Va. He used to come in and do a few sprints, listen to his ipod in between, and then leave. And now, of course, we have the real Jazz in No Va. starting Sept. 19.
  7. Jazz Hands's Avatar
    Mixing power/speed and strength in a workout is cool. If you're doing high-rep sets close to failure, the emphasis can even shift over the course of the set. Early reps are explosive, and later reps are more of a struggle. Couldn't say about a synergistic effect. A lot of strength training "knowledge" is totally fabricated.

    I may be the Jazz of NoVa, but I doubt I am ripped like Mike
  8. Jazz Hands's Avatar
    Also, please instruct me on the proper typography etc. for abbreviating "Northern Virginia." We don't have "We WA" out here so it's a new concept to me.
  9. elise526's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress
    I'm not all that surprised about the Cross Fit advice. But does it apply to well conditioned athletes in their 40s? I can see doing some of their workouts/exercises with some modification. Or skipping the really high impact stuff like those Kipling pull ups Jazz hates.

    Why does the grapevine think speed sets are bad? Too much strain on the joints? I've been doing frequent speed sets for a couple years with no ill results. In fact, they've definitely contributed to my speed.
    He was talking about well-conditioned athletes in their 40s when he told me CrossFit was not a good idea. In fact, I asked him what he thought about me doing it. His own daughter does it, so I was curious to hear his advice. He coaches masters swimmers and has had a few swimmers over 40 try it will ill results. He saw it as an easy way for me to get hurt.

    The word I hear is that as long as you are smart about the amount of weights you are lifting, speed-lifting is o.k. The problem is that people aren't smart about the amount they are doing and get hurt.

    As a guru on weight-lfiting told me, unintelligent use of speed in older folks can result in some bad injuries Just his opinion I suppose, but I'm inclined to listen to it. I'm sure others have a different opinion. In the end, I still want to be able to run, lift, and swim 20 years from now, so I'm extremely conservative with what I do .
  10. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz Hands
    Couldn't say about a synergistic effect. A lot of strength training "knowledge" is totally fabricated.

    I may be the Jazz of NoVa, but I doubt I am ripped like Mike
    I finally bought a book so I can read about strength training. I'm glad I'm not a fabricator or you and Q would be calling me out right and left. I just take advice, experiment some and if I get faster I say "it worked." lol No doubt one day it won't "work" and then I'll play the age card. And then Ahelee will be on my case!

    Mike was ripped, but in a swimmer-ish way. In fact, he told me a couple weeks ago that he hadn't been lifting much at all and needed to pick that up too. He's young, tall and likely naturally strong. Don't worry Jazz, I think you're faster. But you can have a showdown at the Fall Ball or Sprint Classic. Get yourself entered!

    Fall Swim Ball - Sep 26 in the newly renovated
    Wilson Pool ($31 million dollar indoor swimming complex at
    the Tenleytown metro stop). Entry deadline is Sep 15 and
    online entry is available at:
    http://www.swimdcac.org/Fall_Ball.html

    Sprint Classic - Oct 25 at the George Mason Aquatic
    Center in Fairfax (always a fun meet especially the battle
    of the drop-dead 25y sprinters). Entry deadline is Oct 13 -
    and entry form can be viewed at:
    http://www.patriotmasters.org/GMUP.S...2009.Entry.pdf
  11. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by elise526
    He was talking about well-conditioned athletes in their 40s when he told me CrossFit was not a good idea. In fact, I asked him what he thought about me doing it. His own daughter does it, so I was curious to hear his advice. He coaches masters swimmers and has had a few swimmers over 40 try it will ill results. He saw it as an easy way for me to get hurt.

    The word I hear is that as long as you are smart about the amount of weights you are lifting, speed-lifting is o.k. The problem is that people aren't smart about the amount they are doing and get hurt.

    As a guru on weight-lfiting told me, unintelligent use of speed in older folks can result in some bad injuries Just his opinion I suppose, but I'm inclined to listen to it. I'm sure others have a different opinion. In the end, I still want to be able to run, lift, and swim 20 years from now, so I'm extremely conservative with what I do .
    What does he mean exactly by "doing Cross Fit"? Following their WOD precisely? I can't see doing that ... But is he against doing any of the exercises whatsoever? I agree, some of them are likely overkill and could lead to overuse/strain injuries. Not sure I need to do 300 squats, for example.

    Sorry, I was referring to speed sets in the pool not explosive lifting. I've only done about 2 weeks of that, but no ill effects. What does he mean by "smart about the amount" of weight" you use. I've heard cut weight by 30% or more when doing explosive lifting.
  12. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz Hands
    Also, please instruct me on the proper typography etc. for abbreviating "Northern Virginia." We don't have "We WA" out here so it's a new concept to me.
    NoVa is fine. We just feel the need to distinguish ourselves from the rest of Va. And, really, NoVa only refers to the close in and outlying suburbs of DC. Nowadays, Reston is considered reasonably close and many commute to DC from Reston. I wouldn't want that commute, but I know folks do it.
    Updated September 10th, 2009 at 10:04 PM by The Fortress
  13. elise526's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress
    What does he mean exactly by "doing Cross Fit"? Following their WOD precisely? I can't see doing that ... But is he against doing any of the exercises whatsoever? I agree, some of them are likely overkill and could lead to overuse/strain injuries. Not sure I need to do 300 squats, for example.

    Sorry, I was referring to speed sets in the pool not explosive lifting. I've only done about 2 weeks of that, but no ill effects. What does he mean by "smart about the amount" of weight" you use. I've heard cut weight by 30% or more when doing explosive lifting.
    I think he meant following the CrossFit workouts exactly. He didn't seem to object to some of the exercises, just the regimen.

    By not being smart, I mean people don't leave their egos at the door and lift too much weight. In other words, they aren't cutting the weight enough.

    You are extremely intelligent in how you lift, so I doubt it will ever be a problem for you.
  14. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by elise526
    I think he meant following the CrossFit workouts exactly.
    That seems like idiocy to me at my age.

    Nonetheless, I like drylands. I wouldn't feel "fit" if all I was doing was swimming. And, even if it's not perfectly optimal for my swimming, I like feeling like an athlete and not just a swimmer. I guess it's just a matter of striking a balance and checking the ego. Jazz has said I'm "conservative" in the weight room too, so I don't think I've gotten too overzealous. On the other hand, I am wondering if my cranky shoulder is due to excess freestyle or the 200+ wall ups I've done the last few days ...
  15. Speedo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress
    This looks really really hard.
    Man, I'd so be cheating on that.
  16. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo
    Man, I'd so be cheating on that.
    We did a ninny variation of that exercise this summer with Cheryl. We kicked LC 50s with a kickboard held up in the air with straight arms. And that was hard. I flutter kicked those, but maybe it's easier to keep the momentum by dolphin kicking.

    I wish they had shown the other exercises they do for 30 minutes in the clip.
  17. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz Hands
    I may be the Jazz of NoVa, but I doubt I am ripped like Mike
    Dude, beer guts are essential fat.