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Umm... Ouch: USA-S 200 free

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Found out that I need 15 and up A times, not 17 and up, so I have A times in the 50 and the 100.

But not the 200...

A cut: 2:00.09
My time: 2:01.56
Splits: 27.38, 29.73, 31.96, 32.49

I went out a little too fast, but the real problem is my conditioning wasn't there. I needed to swim 27 high, 2 x 29high/30low, 29 mid. I am not sure taking it out a second slower would have saved the back half of the race.

It was very painful. I had several people tell me it looked very painful. I had people tell me they wanted to jump in and push me that last 50. If there was another 50, someone would have had to jump in and save me. I could go on, but I am not Jimby or P. Wolf.

So, more En3 for me. More kick sets.

I did talk to several swimmers behind the blocks. Each complaining that I was swimming in their heat Nothing to worry about, some NT kid in the same heat went a 1:54. One asked how old I was and if I didn't have A times already. I told him my A times were from 95 and didn't count anymore. All the interactions were humorous.

There were also two coaches making fun of me on my way to cool down (I was walking behind them). Talking trash about blowing out in the first 100... I never really liked coaches.

I have a problem now. The next BB meet that I can make is in Dec, which means I miss the Nov and Dec A meets, and it is the same weekend as the DAM Christmas Relays. That isn't really helping me compete more. So I need to figure out how to get an A time in the 200 free or find some other meets to swim the 200 at... or ask everyone to forget the breaking 1:50 goal

Alright, time to rehydrate with Pinot Noir.

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  1. The Fortress's Avatar
    I've always thought the people who assserted that the 200 free was a controlled sprint were lunatics and liars. The 200 takes conditioning and cannot be faked. So, you either need more conditioning or just carry on being a real sprinter.

    So did the abstinence hold you back?
  2. Speedo's Avatar
    I sense some diasppointment (and realize I may be coming off as a clueless optimist), but this is still your best as a masters swimmer, right? Also, I disagree about going out a second slower. At race pace, a half second of extra effort per 50 is a heck of a lot, IMHO. To use Mike Ross' analogy, you got too far ahead of the wave, and it crashed on you, that's all. Lesson learned- you'll be faster at your next meet.
  3. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress
    I've always thought the people who assserted that the 200 free was a controlled sprint were lunatics and liars. The 200 takes conditioning and cannot be faked. So, you either need more conditioning or just carry on being a real sprinter.

    So did the abstinence hold you back?
    Haha! It needed to be a controlled something, that is for sure. I think more conditioning is in my future.

    Abstinence did not hold me back because... I didn't abstain. I hope that didn't cost me 4 seconds on the back half of that 200. I had a glass a day since Thursday. The meet will be motivating me to be a little more controlled with my diet and exercise plans.
  4. tjrpatt's Avatar
    Maybe at your local Senior Champs or upcoming A meets, they might offer a bonus event and the 200 free could be that and thus, no more BB meets.

    Also, if the 200 free is the first event at an upcoming BB meet, do it there and then, you will be done for the day. The coaches are just jealous because they couldn't do a 2:01.

    Overall, it is still a improvement from last year. Gosh, my 200 free just touched yours out. Seriously, this is a good start to the season. Keep up the training and add another day or two.
  5. The Fortress's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by qbrain
    Haha! It needed to be a controlled something, that is for sure. I think more conditioning is in my future.

    Abstinence did not hold me back because... I didn't abstain. I hope that didn't cost me 4 seconds on the back half of that 200. I had a glass a day since Thursday. The meet will be motivating me to be a little more controlled with my diet and exercise plans.
    You still did a masters PB in a itsy bitsy suit. Pete's point is valid.

    What's your diet and exercise plan? Super strict to look like Dara?
  6. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo
    I sense some diasppointment (and realize I may be coming off as a clueless optimist), but this is still your best as a masters swimmer, right? Also, I disagree about going out a second slower. At race pace, a half second of extra effort per 50 is a heck of a lot, IMHO. To use Mike Ross' analogy, you got too far ahead of the wave, and it crashed on you, that's all. Lesson learned- you'll be faster at your next meet.
    You make a good point with the time difference. I am going to post all my splits (50, 100 splits and 200 splits) and see if I can get some feedback on the forum.

    As for my best time It was, but that isn't saying much.
  7. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by tjrpatt
    Maybe at your local Senior Champs or upcoming A meets, they might offer a bonus event and the 200 free could be that and thus, no more BB meets.

    Also, if the 200 free is the first event at an upcoming BB meet, do it there and then, you will be done for the day. The coaches are just jealous because they couldn't do a 2:01.

    Overall, it is still a improvement from last year. Gosh, my 200 free just touched yours out. Seriously, this is a good start to the season. Keep up the training and add another day or two.
    Thanks Tom.

    I am trying to find a way to get another US meet in Nov to swim the 200 free. I might email the host of the A meet and see if he will let my 200 free time slide. I got the impression from being at this meet that the rules aren't strictly enforced. Might need to talk to some coaches on the side too, I might be able to get away with a false 2:00.09 time at the local meets.

    Your 200 free is the silliest time I have ever seen. You can definitely go faster, you just don't focus on it, so it ends up being at warm up speed. I mean your 200 split from your 500 is usually as fast.
  8. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress
    You still did a masters PB in a itsy bitsy suit. Pete's point is valid.

    What's your diet and exercise plan? Super strict to look like Dara?
    Who am I to argue with Pete I just need to move east and try to keep up with him for a year, and I think the 1:50 would be a moot point.

    I might take up the Dara plan. Age groupers make me look fat.
  9. tjrpatt's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by qbrain

    Your 200 free is the silliest time I have ever seen. You can definitely go faster, you just don't focus on it, so it ends up being at warm up speed. I mean your 200 split from your 500 is usually as fast.
    You are speaking the truth.
  10. Speedo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by qbrain
    You make a good point with the time difference. I am going to post all my splits (50, 100 splits and 200 splits) and see if I can get some feedback on the forum.

    As for my best time It was, but that isn't saying much.
    I was consistently disappointed in my improvement during the season last year- I was amazed at how little I improved. I only dropped time after training consistently and then doing a full taper off of that- with a zippety suit. Those are the only times you are referring to when you refer to me as a sub 1:50 swimmer. I expect no different this year. You are dropping time each meet consistently. I'd also like to hear what the forum says about your splits.
    Updated October 18th, 2009 at 08:36 PM by Speedo
  11. pwolf66's Avatar
    Q: Nice swim, kicked my a$$. yikes. Like you I think I crashed and burned at the end because I don't do enough AT work. So we both need to find somewhere in each week (for me, god knows where) for an AT set such as a 15x100 scy on 1:25 or 14x100 scm on 1:35 free style sets. In chatting with my more experienced fellow coaches, they have all said that aerobic sets need to be in the 20 minute range. So this should fit the bill. No idea where I can get this done but I'm going to try. You should give it a try also.
  12. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo
    I was consistently disappointed in my improvement during the season last year- I was amazed at how little I improved. I only dropped time after training consistently and then doing a full taper off of that- with a zippety suit. Those are the only times you are referring to when you refer to me as a sub 1:50 swimmer. I expect no different this year. You are dropping time each meet consistently. I'd also like to hear what the forum says about your splits.
    I don't get a magic suit at the end of my season this year.

    I really do appreciate what you are saying, but I need to drop considerable time in season for a taper to sub 1:50 to be realistic. A 1:54 by Jan is more than .8 drop every six months. It is fine if the goal takes longer than this year, but it has to progress quickly enough that I don't have to worry about age becoming a factor. At 1.6 seconds a year, age does become a factor
  13. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by pwolf66
    Q: Nice swim, kicked my a$$. yikes. Like you I think I crashed and burned at the end because I don't do enough AT work. So we both need to find somewhere in each week (for me, god knows where) for an AT set such as a 15x100 scy on 1:25 or 14x100 scm on 1:35 free style sets. In chatting with my more experienced fellow coaches, they have all said that aerobic sets need to be in the 20 minute range. So this should fit the bill. No idea where I can get this done but I'm going to try. You should give it a try also.
    Thanks Paul. I didn't kick your ass if you count your previous meet, where you kicked my ass.

    I think I am going to try to stick a Xx100 on min rest set into each week. 1:15 is the next goal for me.
  14. quicksilver's Avatar
    My time: 2:01.56
    Splits: 27.38, 29.73, 31.96, 32.49
    That seems like very normal fading away on the last 50.
    Did you go out with 'easy speed'?... or was it forced?

    A good goal for the time being should be to take it out in a very comfortable :56 and hang onto a minute pace for the back half.
    The 1:50 time will come from a taper that's for sure.

    Yes, a half hour set of aerobic work will build you a 200 engine. Fast 100's will make you good at...fast 100's!
    Learning to swim in the discomfort zone is the best way to keep the wheels on your wagon for the last 75 yards of a 200.
  15. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by quicksilver
    That seems like very normal fading away on the last 50.
    Did you go out with 'easy speed'?... or was it forced?

    A good goal for the time being should be to take it out in a very comfortable :56 and hang onto a minute pace for the back half.
    The 1:50 time will come from a taper that's for sure.

    Yes, a half hour set of aerobic work will build you a 200 engine. Fast 100's will make you good at...fast 100's!
    Learning to swim in the discomfort zone is the best way to keep the wheels on your wagon for the last 75 yards of a 200.
    It was faster than easy speed. I went out with the guy who went 1:54, but since I was in a heat of NTs, I didn't expect to see anyone, so I actually thought I was going to slow. My bad.

    My next 200 free is SCM at the end of November. I won't make the same mistake, and my conditioning will be better.

    I am embarrassed that I went a 54.0 and didn't break 2:00.
  16. quicksilver's Avatar
    Steve hitched his wagon once to a guy who was seeded at 1:58. He thought this was perfect as the guy next to him was entered at 2 minutes. If he hitched his wagon to either one of them, the sub 2 minute goal was a sure bet.

    It turned out to be a bad plan. The 1:58 guy went out in a :52...and he kept going and going...to a 1:50 xx. Steve swam after him like a sheep, thinking aha...so this is how it's done. The crash and burn after the first 100 came on like a wave.

    Lesson learned...swim your own race!
  17. JimRude's Avatar
    Some perhaps useless advice from a sprint breaststroker on swimming a sub 1:50 200 free (my credibility comes from having swam with many of the best 200 freestylers of the 1980s as a young 'un):

    To go sub 1:50, you need to split it +/- 53/56. That is 25+, 27+, 27+, 27+ by 50s.

    The trick is that the 50s obviously get progressively more difficult (duh). So you need to build "easy speed" - where you can swim a 100 in 52 in a meet a well below max effort.

    I would focus on working on building easy speed - sets of 6-8 50s with little rest (10-15 secs), trying to hold 27s from a push.

    I would also do sets of 75s and 100s with slightly more rest (15-20 secs), trying to hold your 2nd 100 pace from a push (i.e. pushing 57s).

    Finally, periodically throw in broken 200s (4x 50 with 10 secs rest in between), trying to approach your goal time.

    YMMV.
  18. Speedo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by JimRude
    Some perhaps useless advice from a sprint breaststroker on swimming a sub 1:50 200 free (my credibility comes from having swam with many of the best 200 freestylers of the 1980s as a young 'un):

    To go sub 1:50, you need to split it +/- 53/56. That is 25+, 27+, 27+, 27+ by 50s.

    The trick is that the 50s obviously get progressively more difficult (duh). So you need to build "easy speed" - where you can swim a 100 in 52 in a meet a well below max effort.

    I would focus on working on building easy speed - sets of 6-8 50s with little rest (10-15 secs), trying to hold 27s from a push.

    I would also do sets of 75s and 100s with slightly more rest (15-20 secs), trying to hold your 2nd 100 pace from a push (i.e. pushing 57s).

    Finally, periodically throw in broken 200s (4x 50 with 10 secs rest in between), trying to approach your goal time.

    YMMV.
    For a sprint breaststroker, his advice is pretty good
  19. qbrain's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo
    For a sprint breaststroker, his advice is pretty good
    No ****, right?

    Thanks Jim. That is all good advice.

    Quick, I like how Steve was the one who made the mistake. I think I like Steve, he is a risk taker. He probably makes bad decisions on occasion, like drinking too much Pinot the night before a 5am practice. My kinda guy.

    My "plan" wasn't to pace off of anyone, but I certainly thought I as going too slow when some NT passed me. If I had a real plan, I would have gone easy, strong, build, AFAP, but alas I failed to plan ahead.
  20. quicksilver's Avatar
    Planning is everything. You must do more of that.

    And yes, Steve is a go getter. And I think he likes wine as well. His race plan has always been to spot the sub 2 minute guy and tag along. He might as well have an electronic swimming bunny zipping alongside the lane line. That's how he finally went under 2 minutes.


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