Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 37

Thread: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

  1. #1
    Very Active Member Paul Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    2,668

    Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    Mark Shubert from the NY Times article on Dara:

    "But -let's face it- compared with the Olympics, even the Master's World Championships is a glorified losers' round, and holding a master's world record is hardly an exciting achievement. . . "
    I crack myself up. It is jealousy. It is Boredom. I Did not accomplish enough when I was young, and I hate anybody faster/younger than me.

  2. #2
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    168

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    It's easy to be the haughty snob when you're the old man on the mountain.

  3. #3
    Very Active Member scyfreestyler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,410

    Re: Shubert digs Maters swimming

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    Mark Shubert from the NY Times article on Dara:

    "But -let's face it- compared with the Olympics, even the Master's World Championships is a glorified losers' round, and holding a master's world record is hardly an exciting achievement. . . "
    Yeah, real nice commentary huh! I guess if exciting means valuable in terms of dollars earned in endorsements, he is probably correct. It's difficult for me to place the title of loser on any USMS or FINA Masters record holder. But then again, what do I know...Schubert is the USA Swimming Head Coach after all.

  4. #4
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    8,058
    Blog Entries
    1205

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    I invite Mark to swim in a Masters Meet or a USA Swimming Meet
    Let's find out what sort of times he can swim

    here's the link to the NY Times article
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/ma...nt&oref=slogin

    to make his quote a little eaiser to find:

    EVEN TORRES KNOWS that if she manages to earn one of the two spots available on the Olympic team for the 50-meter freestyle, or one of the six available on the 100-meter freestyle (which includes a relay team), this will be her last trip to the Games. Mark Schubert, the national team’s coach in 1984, told me he’s sure Torres will hold master’s swimming records in freestyle sprints at age 50 and 60 and 70. But — let’s face it — compared with the Olympics, even the Masters World Championship is a glorified losers’ round, and holding a master’s world record is hardly an exciting achievement for an athlete who hit the world stage just as she entered high school and who has nine Olympic medals to her name. Driving home one night from a sushi dinner, Torres’s partner, David Hoffman, admitted that he’ll be relieved when Torres emerges from her Olympic training tunnel. “We don’t spend as much time together,” he told me as he idled his car outside their home. “We can’t go on a vacation.” Torres had driven home separately with Tessa. Hoffman watched the swimmer standing in their driveway at dusk, her mind clearly turned toward getting Tessa to bed, so that she could get nine hours of sleep herself. “I can’t wait until this is over,” Hoffman sighed. “It’ll have been two years.”

    Previous Page1 2 3 4 5 6 Next

  5. #5
    Very Active Member scyfreestyler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,410

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    Quote Originally Posted by ande View Post
    I invite Mark to swim in a Masters Meet or a USA Swimming Meet
    Let's find out what sort of times he can swim

    And swim with a bunch of losers? Please!

  6. #6
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    4,172
    Blog Entries
    1217

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    The context of the quote is that this is Torres' last shot at the Olympics and that competing at the elite masters level -- which Torres could obviously continue to do -- just isn't the same.

    The wording is irritating but can anyone disagree with the larger point?

    And it isn't clear to me that it is SCHUBERT calling masters swimming a "glorified loser's round," or if those are the author's words.

    I bet the LAST time DT competed in the Olympics, everyone was sure it was her last time competing at that level...

  7. #7
    Distance Man tjrpatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Delaware Valley(Philly), PA
    Posts
    1,813
    Blog Entries
    1655

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    From the famous words of Whitney Houston, "Aww, hell to the naw!!!".

    There are alot of talented people in Masters Swimming. Plus, there are some Masters swimmers who could compete at Torres's level but might not have the time to pursue Olympic and World Rankings. They are too busy with work and families or don't have the resources to put all their energy into swimming.

  8. #8
    Active Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Bridgewater, MA
    Posts
    61

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    I read the article this morning and the posts. I think C. Stevenson is right. These are probably not Shubert's words but the author's. It might be even more interesting to see her in a Masters meet. I think her "glorious losers" remark seemed out of place in what I found to be an interesting article. I am looking forward to seeing Dara Torres qualify in the 50. She really is an amazing swimmer.

    As to Tom's remark: "...there are some Masters swimmers who could compete at Torres's level but might not have the time to pursue Olympic and World Rankings. They are too busy with work and families or don't have the resources to put all their energy into swimming." I don't buy it. I think that kind of talent is very rare and she has the hunger to go after it...which is also remarkable. There are some absolutely amazing Masters swimmers, old and young, and I watched some incredible swims in Austin, but swimmers like Torres, Phelps, Lochte are on another level, and I don't think it's taking care of our kids or businesses that keeps some Masters swimmers from competing at that level. Tom sounds a bit too much like Stanley Kowalski "I coulda been a contenda...." instead of a parent...which is what I am.

  9. #9
    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    8,108
    Blog Entries
    2132

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    I read the article this morning and the posts. I think C. Stevenson is right. These are probably not Shubert's words but the author's. It might be even more interesting to see her in a Masters meet. I think her "glorious losers" remark seemed out of place in what I found to be an interesting article. I am looking forward to seeing Dara Torres qualify in the 50. She really is an amazing swimmer.

    As to Tom's remark: "...there are some Masters swimmers who could compete at Torres's level but might not have the time to pursue Olympic and World Rankings. They are too busy with work and families or don't have the resources to put all their energy into swimming." I don't buy it. I think that kind of talent is very rare and she has the hunger to go after it...which is also remarkable. There are some absolutely amazing Masters swimmers, old and young, and I watched some incredible swims in Austin, but swimmers like Torres, Phelps, Lochte are on another level, and I don't think it's taking care of our kids or businesses that keeps some Masters swimmers from competing at that level. Tom sounds a bit too much like Stanley Kowalski "I coulda been a contenda...." instead of a parent...which is what I am.
    Greg, I agree (and so nice to meet you at Nats, BTW!!). No way are the vast majority of masters swimmers as talented as Dara. But for Mark Shubert to make that comment or say something that could be that mischaracterized is rubbish. I completely admire true masters swimmers competing at the level they do. I think it's amazing, whether they're like you or Tall Paul and setting WRs or like Stud, kicking ass personally. It's easy to be a superstar when you're young and unhindered; not so easy when you're older and have so many demand on your time and energy.

  10. #10
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    112
    Blog Entries
    18

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    And it isn't clear to me that it is SCHUBERT calling masters swimming a "glorified loser's round," or if those are the author's words.
    It looked to me as if they were the author's words, not Schubert's. It's possible the author was trying to paraphrase Schubert. But the sentiment is certainly consistent with the sometimes haughty attitudes New Yorker's have come to know and love from the NY Times (particularly the sports section).

  11. #11
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    830

    Masters Swimming

    Hard to tell if the author is paraphrasing what came out of the interview with Mark or it's the author's own thoughts. Either way, it demonstrates a lack of understanding of what masters swimming is about. Face it, masters swimming exists as an alternative to USA Swimming. Comparing the two and calling masters swimmers "losers" is simply a waste of time.

    If the author surmized this on his own, it makes me wonder if the rest of the article could be equally opinionated and flawed.

    Chris..... I do not agree with "the larger point" and calling masters swimmers losers because they were mentally mature enough to make the tough choice to move on from the sport years ago and pursue other areas of life with equal fervor.

    Tell me again why making 5 Olympic teams is so much better than 4 ?


    John Smith

  12. #12
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    4,172
    Blog Entries
    1217

    Re: Masters Swimming

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGoodSmith View Post
    Chris..... I do not agree with "the larger point" and calling masters swimmers losers because they were mentally mature enough to make the tough choice to move on from the sport years ago and pursue other areas of life with equal fervor.

    Tell me again why making 5 Olympic teams is so much better than 4 ?
    Sure, good point. And the number that is impressive is "41," not 4 vs 5. Still, I continue to believe that SVDL's accomplishments in masters (based on her training) are at least as impressive as Torres'.

    I was irritated by the "losers" comment, sure. But the parts of that paragraph that REALLY raised my eyebrows were David Hoffman's comments ("he'll be relieved when Torres emerges from her Olympic training tunnel" and "I can't wait until this is over.")

    "Other areas of life," indeed.

  13. #13
    Very Active Member Paul Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Mesa, AZ
    Posts
    2,668

    Re: Masters Swimming

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    Sure, good point. And the number that is impressive is "41," not 4 vs 5. Still, I continue to believe that SVDL's accomplishments in masters (based on her training) are at least as impressive as Torres'.

    I was irritated by the "losers" comment, sure. But the parts of that paragraph that REALLY raised my eyebrows were David Hoffman's comments ("he'll be relieved when Torres emerges from her Olympic training tunnel" and "I can't wait until this is over.")

    "Other areas of life," indeed.
    Chris...not sure if your a "drinking man" but love to think someday we'll sit down, have to many beers....and you'll let your "hair down" and ditch all the math-stats/PC stuff and fire away with how you really feel!
    I crack myself up. It is jealousy. It is Boredom. I Did not accomplish enough when I was young, and I hate anybody faster/younger than me.

  14. #14
    Just swim. USMSarah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    736

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    Wow, that comment has me all fired up. Whether it was Schubert or the author... it was a bit uncalled for. You can't really compare the two! Like ande said, let's invite the jerk who said that to swim a nice 200 fly, 800 free or 400 im in a masters meet and see if they want to call the people in the next lane to them losers. Odds are, it was the author's words... and they obviously have no clue what masters swimming means.


  15. #15
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Hailey ID
    Posts
    693

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    My thought about this is that a master's record is an age group record. I'll bet that Schubert would be VERY enthusiastic about any kid he ever coached who broke an age-group record, so what's wrong with old people setting one?
    Mel Dyck
    • Certified Level 2 ASCA Coach

  16. #16
    Very Active Member quicksilver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Eastern Long Island
    Posts
    1,531
    Blog Entries
    325

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    A world record is a world record. Nothing short of that.

    Maybe what Schubert was implying is that a 20 something who competes on the world class level shouldn't hold too much merit in taking down a masters record.
    Even though the masters age grouping starts at 19 to 24...this category is a different animal altogether (than those who compete during their middle age years and beyond).
    Excellence Is Never An Accident.

  17. #17
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    5,686
    Blog Entries
    588

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    I found the quote very funny. Soy un perdedor, as Beck might say.

  18. #18
    Very Active Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    292

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    During the broadcast of the trials it was mentioned several times how it is very difficult for swimmers to continue their training after they leave college. Not so much because of time, though I'm sure that plays a part as well, but mostly because there aren't really that many training programs throughout the country that address the post college swimmers needs-if they want to continue their pursuit of a spot on the olympic team. Didn't G. Hall start one down in Florida for that exact reason?
    I'd be curious to know how many swimmers just fade out of the elite swimmers circle after their college career only to surface years later as a masters swimmer.

  19. #19
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    4,172
    Blog Entries
    1217

    Re: Masters Swimming

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    Chris...not sure if your a "drinking man" but love to think someday we'll sit down, have to many beers....
    You got it. Oregon? Whomever has the biggest time drop from last year LCM gets a free beer...or three...

  20. #20
    Very Active Member Sam Perry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ.
    Posts
    647

    Re: Shubert digs Masters Swimming

    Quote Originally Posted by aquageek View Post
    I found the quote very funny. Soy un perdedor, as Beck might say.
    Now with the Beck reference. Thanks, I have that song now ingrained in my head.... "I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me"
    These amino acids are awesome, now I need a new Speedo.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •