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Thread: Training for the 100 fly?

  1. #61
    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Fort - I'll chime in with my two favorite fly sets. I only do the first set during mid season and toward the end of season (meaning not now because I would fail at it). I tried the second set this week but am not ready for that, either (I had to do an easy 50 free on 1:00 in between each of the 3 parts). Lastly, I swim in a SCM pool.

    4x100 on 3:00 done as follows: 75 fly all out (I mean 100%). Stop, get time. Swim easy back to the other end. Oh, and I rarely am able to do all 4 on 3:00. Usually after the 3rd one I wait until at least 5:00 to do the last one with the goal of coming close to what I did on the first one. Again, I think you should be in pretty good shape to do this right. This is my main set on days that I do it.

    Other set is not as brutal:
    3x75 on 1:30, 3x50 on 1:00, 3x25 on :30. All fly. You try to descend each set of 3. I typically descend just 1 second for each 75 and each 50 (can't really tell the times for the 25s accurately so you just descend your effort). In my opinion when you finish the 3rd 75 fly hard, it becomes a challenge to go into active recovery to do the first 50 easy. Maybe this is actually better preparation for a 200 fly. Just add an easy 50 between each set of 3 if you are not conditioned enough to make the whole set.

    I think the second set helps build endurance to stay strong on the last length of a 100 fly or help with the middle of your 200 fly. And the first set, if done in SCM, means you are swimming hard fly (75m) for almost as long as your taper time will be for 100y fly (within 5 seconds).

    Jeff Roddin
    Last edited by jroddin; September 18th, 2008 at 08:41 AM.

  2. #62
    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    Fort...try it backstroke the next time (then free and IM the next two times) and screw the noodlers...do the dryland and see how hard the set really is!
    Was all set to do this set backstroke today when a kid ruined the pool. Try it tomorrow.

    Thanks for the sets, Al and Jeff. I might try Jeff's second set soon, but it will definitely require an easy 50 between parts for me.

    Screw the 200 fly. No appeal whatsoever. And, Al, I was used to abuse as an age grouper, but 10 x 500 fly?!

  3. #63
    Very Active Member LindsayNB's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    the 50's are best average, not all out.
    What does the phrase "best average" mean?
    Last edited by LindsayNB; September 18th, 2008 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Added quote to make it obvious what I was asking about.

  4. #64
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Fortress,

    Please tell us more about this situation. What is it like?

    AJ

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    You're young and strong, hotstuff!
    Don't get me wrong ... I'm nasty competitive

  5. #65
    Very Active Member Big AL's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by LindsayNB View Post
    What does the phrase "best average" mean?
    The difference here is "all out" compared to "best average".

    If you do 3x50 on 1:00 "all out", there is insufficient recovery time, so your times might be.... 26, 29, 30.

    If you do 3x50 on 1:00 "best average", you don't completely fail, so your times might be.... 28, 28, 29.

    The idea behind "best average" is to maintain your effort on the entire set and determine your base for the 2nd 50 of a 100.
    <---- optical illusion, if you look at the puppy long enough... he begins to levitate.

  6. #66
    Very Active Member funkyfish's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Something I've been playing around with is doing a set of 8x125 where the first 100 is free and the last 25 is fly. So far the first one feels really good, the the last 7 are tough. I'm thinking/hoping that this might help to condition me to have enough gas left at the end of a 100 to keep from dying. I've also been doing quite a bit of IM work and switching the order to where fly is the last leg. Now…look at these guys

  7. #67
    Very Active Member new's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big AL View Post
    The difference here is "all out" compared to "best average".

    If you do 3x50 on 1:00 "all out", there is insufficient recovery time, so your times might be.... 26, 29, 30.

    If you do 3x50 on 1:00 "best average", you don't completely fail, so your times might be.... 28, 28, 29.

    The idea behind "best average" is to maintain your effort on the entire set and determine your base for the 2nd 50 of a 100.
    I always wonder which one might be the best way to improve

    let's say

    10x100 best average maybe 10-15" rest

    OR

    5x100 all out maybe 45-1:00 rest


    If someone ask me which one would require more effort, I'd say that both sets means very much the same effort, but what I dont know is which one would improve you the most,

    the first set may be better for the 400 free, and the 2nd one for the 100 free

    I mean, what are you really working for when you choose one of them instead of the other

  8. #68
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by new View Post
    I always wonder which one might be the best way to improve

    let's say

    10x100 best average maybe 10-15" rest

    OR

    5x100 all out maybe 45-1:00 rest


    If someone ask me which one would require more effort, I'd say that both sets means very much the same effort, but what I dont know is which one would improve you the most,

    the first set may be better for the 400 free, and the 2nd one for the 100 free

    I mean, what are you really working for when you choose one of them instead of the other
    I would disagree with you on one point: I think the first set is basically a broken 1000 and is working on race distances closer to that, while the second is working more on the 400/500 and somewhat on the 200.

    I also think it is very difficult to go truly "all out" with only :45 - 1:00 rest between 100s, that isn't enough time to recover (particularly if we are talking about butterfly, though you mentioned freestyle).

    As far as what you gain, "all out" efforts are when your body is exposed to conditions (heart rate, oxygen debt, lactic acid levels) most similar to a shorter race -- by shorter, I mean 200 and less -- and when your body will learn to cope with such conditions. Stroke efficiency and turns can also be different at full speed.

  9. #69
    CreamPuff
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Don't do this:

    SCY
    400 Warm Up
    2x300 IM Order Right Arm/ L Arm/ Swim by 25s
    6x100 @ 1:30 Ttumble
    8x25 @ :30 IM ORDER

    FLY
    1x800 Alternate 50 Fly/ 50 FR

    4 TIMES
    1x300 FR @ 3:45
    6x50 Fly DRILL @ :55
    1x100 Fly FAST for Time @ 1:30 - Rounds 1 and 3
    1x200 Fly FAST for Time @ 3:00 - Rounds 2 and 4

    20x50
    1-5 FR @ :40
    6-10 Fly @ :40
    11-15 FR @ :35
    16-20 Fly @ :40

    6x100 @ 1:30
    1,2,4,5 EZ FR
    3 and 6 FAST for time

    100 EZ

  10. #70
    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Ack. No, I won't do that. Nice happy birthday present for you, (S)he!

  11. #71
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Hey Fort,

    At the end of practice today I used the parachute (fully closed) for some 50 fly repeats. It was the first time I had used the chute for anything longer than 25s.

    VERY brutal, the last half-lap felt exactly like the end of a butterfly race. IMO a much more realistic simulation of a race than a typical long fly set (I had done a set of 125s fly earlier in practice: tiring but not the same way a race is).

    Anyway, if your shoulders can hack it, it might be a good way to train for the 100 fly.

    Curiously, freestyle and backstroke weren't nearly as bad over 50 yards. Tiring, sure, but really no worse than 25s with the chute.

    Thought I'd let you know; as I said, I'll bring it to the meet at the end of the month.

  12. #72
    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stevenson View Post
    Hey Fort,

    At the end of practice today I used the parachute (fully closed) for some 50 fly repeats. It was the first time I had used the chute for anything longer than 25s.

    VERY brutal, the last half-lap felt exactly like the end of a butterfly race. IMO a much more realistic simulation of a race than a typical long fly set (I had done a set of 125s fly earlier in practice: tiring but not the same way a race is).

    Anyway, if your shoulders can hack it, it might be a good way to train for the 100 fly.
    How very enticing! Others have reported possible shoulder ouchies to me though.

    Got another tip on my Geek 9:27 trip to NC. I was talking with Wookiee about the Cavic video and he suggested swimming fly with very light handweights and fins.

    I think the fly sets may have helped my 50 fly too. Started off much faster this year. Don't think it was all suit, although Smith might suggest differently.

  13. #73
    Very Active Member FlyQueen's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    I think you have to swim 100s (straight) in practice to be successful come meet time. Heck, I swim broke 100s; 25, 50 and 75 repeats and 100s and I still die at the end. I also do tons of drills. It's the ONLY event I swim regularly that I swim almost as fast in practice as I do at a meet ... anyway ...

    Auburn sprinters swim with small weights - I've thought about this (as well as getting a chute which I plan to do this fall when I actually get my butt in gear and start training a bit more) but I think it would cause far more havoc on the shoulders than a chute. I could be wrong. A drag suit or shoes is something to consider also.

    A drill some sadistic coach inflicted upon me this summer that I KNOW help was 10 kicks underwater/5 strokes and he would say, “lather, rinse, repeat”. SCY it isn’t bad but LCM it’s rough! I also LOVE right arm, both, left arm, both – etc. Breathe only on the single arms OR the double arms. It’s great to get the rhythm and I prefer it to 2,2,2.

    I however bow the fly masters that have responded thus far – I aspire to my screen name though never need to swim the 200 again …
    "I don't race to see who is the fastest, I race to see who has the most guts."

  14. #74
    Tough like cottage cheese
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyQueen View Post
    I think you have to swim 100s (straight) in practice to be successful come meet time. Heck, I swim broke 100s; 25, 50 and 75 repeats and 100s and I still die at the end. I also do tons of drills. It's the ONLY event I swim regularly that I swim almost as fast in practice as I do at a meet ... anyway ...
    Hmm, I must be the exception as I just swam a very relaxed 1:00.9 100y fly without ever having swum fly in practice for more than a 50, and even that isn't very often.

    We'll find out if that was just an aberation come three weeks from now.

  15. #75
    Very Active Member FlyQueen's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    I do what I feel works for me. I realize that others are able to get away with less actual fly training. Part of that comes from background - I never really swam fly until four years ago and really just started training and competing it two years ago - a lot different from many that are saying they never swim over 50 yards or don't do 100s.
    "I don't race to see who is the fastest, I race to see who has the most guts."

  16. #76
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Oh, I wasn't bad mouthing your training. I was just wondering if I'm due for a serious death somewhere.

  17. #77
    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by pwolf66 View Post
    Hmm, I must be the exception as I just swam a very relaxed 1:00.9 100y fly without ever having swum fly in practice for more than a 50, and even that isn't very often.

    We'll find out if that was just an aberation come three weeks from now.
    Outrageous braggart! You leave my FAF sista alone.

    You will have serious death if you don't get your ass back to the pool.

  18. #78
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    Outrageous braggart! You leave my FAF sista alone.

    You will have serious death if you don't get your ass back to the pool.
    ROAR!!!!!

  19. #79
    Very Active Member Paul Smith's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyQueen View Post
    I think you have to swim 100s (straight) in practice to be successful come meet time. Heck, I swim broke 100s; 25, 50 and 75 repeats and 100s and I still die at the end. I also do tons of drills. It's the ONLY event I swim regularly that I swim almost as fast in practice as I do at a meet
    Sorry Ms. Queen but if you are sticking to a routine in workout that doesn't help you to stop dying in meets AND you are swimming the same time in workouts as said meets then I would suggest maybe you do need to consider a change? Sticking to a routine is about the worst thing you can do as an competitive athlete...how would you ever know it was "working for you" if you haven't experimented with alternatives?
    I crack myself up. It is jealousy. It is Boredom. I Did not accomplish enough when I was young, and I hate anybody faster/younger than me.

  20. #80
    Very Active Member FlyQueen's Avatar
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    Re: Training for the 100 fly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smith View Post
    Sorry Ms. Queen but if you are sticking to a routine in workout that doesn't help you to stop dying in meets AND you are swimming the same time in workouts as said meets then I would suggest maybe you do need to consider a change? Sticking to a routine is about the worst thing you can do as an competitive athlete...how would you ever know it was "working for you" if you haven't experimented with alternatives?
    Well, I think I need to actually swim more 100s and further fly and continue to work on my stroke. I fully understand and agree with what you are saying but I think I am not explaning myself well. I need to figure out what does work and sadly I think it's longer fly repeats ... thanks for the thoughts though.
    "I don't race to see who is the fastest, I race to see who has the most guts."

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