View Poll Results: Would you do away with Short Course Meters season?

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  • Get rid of short course meters season

    12 12.24%
  • Keep short course meters season

    71 72.45%
  • Doesn't matter either way

    15 15.31%
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Thread: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

  1. #41
    Tough like a donut
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Quote Originally Posted by stillwater View Post
    It is not a short course yards world.
    Well, if one's world is the US, it is.

    My appologies for inaccuracy.

  2. #42
    Very Active Member bbpolhill's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Quote Originally Posted by jim clemmons View Post
    Brad,

    What apathy? Pacific's not apathetic towards SCM. We have almost as many SCM meets as SCY which are both more than LCM. LCM seems to be our season of "not enuf". I think we had over 400 at our SCM Champs two weeks ago.
    I made the point earler in the thread that there may be a regional bias as well. I wondered what the statistics were surrounding SCM/SCY/LCM pools on an LMSC or LSC basis. I am in the Northeast and there is probably fewer facilities available to host SCM meets than you would find on the west coast.

    Many of the long time swimmers that I am exposed to almost totally disregard SCM. In fact, one swimmer on my team found out that an upcoming meet is going to be SCM rather than SCY as he thought and will probably not participate. I am impressionable novice to the sport and have only come across apathy towards SCM.

    Importantly, the apathy extends well beyond Masters swimmers. Ask age group swimmers what their best SCM times are or what they think of SCM and you might imagine the negative responses you will get. As I have suggested, the root of the issue is that the standard is not embraced and is barely acknowledged by age groupers and college swimmers - the future Masters generation. I don't see where the US support for SCM is going to come from and thus find it hard to embrace myself.

  3. #43
    Very Active Member bbpolhill's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Quote Originally Posted by pwolf66 View Post
    Has it occurred to you that the season length and/or apathy may be due to the fact that the US is SCY oriented due to the predominance of SCY pools so facilities that _could_ host SCM are busy hosting SCY?
    No, I did not. But, I'm also not convinced that's significant.

    I know of few pools that could host both a SCM meet or a SCY meet, but not a LCM meet. The LCM pools in our area are conforming to the season, but there are very few of these pools.

  4. #44
    Very Calm Member jim clemmons's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Quote Originally Posted by bbpolhill View Post
    Many of the long time swimmers that I am exposed to almost totally disregard SCM. In fact, one swimmer on my team found out that an upcoming meet is going to be SCM rather than SCY as he thought and will probably not participate. I am impressionable novice to the sport and have only come across apathy towards SCM.

    Importantly, the apathy extends well beyond Masters swimmers. Ask age group swimmers what their best SCM times are or what they think of SCM and you might imagine the negative responses you will get. As I have suggested, the root of the issue is that the standard is not embraced and is barely acknowledged by age groupers and college swimmers - the future Masters generation. I don't see where the US support for SCM is going to come from and thus find it hard to embrace myself.
    Maybe I'm a little simple sometimes but to me it doesn't matter what others may or may not feel - it only matterrs how I feel about it and then I need to try and gently persuade others to feel the same way - without being overbearing about it. Just because others are apathetic to SCM doesn't mean you have to follow suit. Be a leader and show them there's more to life than SCY and LCM.
    Jim

  5. #45
    Very Active Member bbpolhill's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Quote Originally Posted by jim clemmons View Post
    Maybe I'm a little simple sometimes but to me it doesn't matter what others may or may not feel - it only matterrs how I feel about it and then I need to try and gently persuade others to feel the same way - without being overbearing about it. Just because others are apathetic to SCM doesn't mean you have to follow suit. Be a leader and show them there's more to life than SCY and LCM.
    Hmmm...

    I am not apathetic about SCM nor am I against the standard itself, I dislike the season because there is widespread disregard from the US swimming community as a whole (not just Masters swimmers). It would seem that Masters swimmers like it alot more than non-Masters swimmers.

    Interestingly, I hosted and ran a SCM masters meet last year and it was modestly attended. A number of the people participated thinking it was a SCY pool (believe it or not). The attitude as a whole however was that people were uninterested in even their own performances because they had difficulty comparing it to past performances. You have to say at least I tried. Maybe some people are just not born to be leaders.

  6. #46
    Very Calm Member jim clemmons's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Quote Originally Posted by bbpolhill View Post
    Hmmm...

    I am not apathetic about SCM nor am I against the standard itself, I dislike the season because there is widespread disregard from the US swimming community as a whole (not just Masters swimmers). It would seem that Masters swimmers like it alot more than non-Masters swimmers.

    Interestingly, I hosted and ran a SCM masters meet last year and it was modestly attended. A number of the people participated thinking it was a SCY pool (believe it or not). The attitude as a whole however was that people were uninterested in even their own performances because they had difficulty comparing it to past performances. You have to say at least I tried. Maybe some people are just not born to be leaders.
    Sounds more like you don't dislike the season whatsoever - maybe just the dislikers themselves? Or the feeling others may have about it? Know what I mean? I think I know where you're coming from though.
    Jim

  7. #47
    Very Active Member bbpolhill's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Quote Originally Posted by jim clemmons View Post
    Sounds more like you don't dislike the season whatsoever - maybe just the dislikers themselves? Or the feeling others may have about it? Know what I mean? I think I know where you're coming from though.
    Now I think we're getting on the same page. I guess I don't like the idea that it feels unimportant...kind of "why bother if nobody else seems to care".

  8. #48
    Very Active Member david.margrave's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Are they still building 25 yard pools these days?

  9. #49
    Active Member mrubacky's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    I used to swim with NEM and there's two great SCM meets in New England. The Leaf Peepers meet in VT (pool is 25y x 25m) and BU. I did these every year I was in New England. I also found that I usually didn't notice the difference in distance.

  10. #50
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Rykno View Post
    we don't have SCY over here, so getting rid of SCM would mean only LCM.....no thanks

  11. #51
    Very Active Member chowmi's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Quote Originally Posted by bbpolhill View Post
    How exactly would I be ruining it for the rest of you? I am only soliciting opinions for discussion purposes and to get an idea of what the Masters community feels about the SCM Season. It has nothing to do with actually swimming the distance. It's the lack of meets and general apathy in the US towards the standard that turns me off about the season.
    HAHAHA!!! SCM is the adjective and SEASON is the noun! Reminds me of hot buttered flavored topping on my popcorn. Topping is the noun, and butter is an adjective. YUCK! Or rather, YUM!

    I train year round SCM so horray for me, but really, who cares about you chowmi, which is what everyone is thinking whilst reading this post.

    I am not so concerned about any SEASON, but rather if I am free that weekend, the order of events, and ample free and up close parking. Hopefully i'm not bloating which seems to be a nearly constant steady-state, but as meatloaf says, 2 out of 3 ain't bad!

    I like SCM SEASON because there will be some opportunity to swim in the "1st half" of the long stretch during traditional SCY season, with an extra opportunity for top tens given it's another course. Plus if you plan to swim some meets, it keeps you from going to the dark side of getting completely out of shape or not squelching into your fast suit over the Halloween/Thanksgiving/Winter Holiday continuous 3 month feeding frenzy.

  12. #52
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Quote Originally Posted by chowmi View Post
    I like SCM SEASON
    I like SC (.)

    Though I might be better conditioned during LC, it is then that my reflexes get fried and I have to readjust to having the necessary wall of leverage with SC. The only difference between SC Y and M for me is one breath.

  13. #53
    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Training in Arizona, I LOVE the SCM season because it is the best time of year to train here between ~September and late November -- the heat has finally dissipated so swimming mid-day is feasible, but the 30-something mornings and chilly evenings are yet to appear, so swimming at those times are also great. Plus, as our only indoor competition pool is at like a million mile altitude (Flagstaff), we can also have outdoor meets in the fall where you don't fry (May to August) or freeze (December to March).

    Oh yeah, April's also nice for meets here, but then it's SCY and you can't measure yourself up against the Germans, French, Aussies and ROW.
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  14. #54
    Very Active Member gdanner's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    We've had a SCM meet in our LMSC for three years in a row now. It's a walled pool, so they wouldn't be able to host the meet otherwise (or well, it wouldn't really count for anything). Added competitive opportunities are always a good thing. We've had our difficulties getting people to show up though; I don't know if that's because it's SCM or due to being "early" in the season (October) and the fact that it's an older 6 lane pool.
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  15. #55
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    In case you are interested, there is a SCM meet in Georgia called the St. Nick's meet on December 14th this year at GA Tech.

  16. #56
    Paint test area ahead Michael Heather's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    I like swimming SCM meets, but have a slightly different observation than some.

    When USMS added the SCM season in the late 1980s, there was a significant downtime in training after LCM nationals (usually early Aug) and SCY Nationals (historically around Memorial day, but much earlier lately). People had some time off and made use of their lives outside of swimming.

    The trend now is a 24 hour news cycle, so why not have a constant swimming cycle? I am not sure getting rid of the SCM season is at any level possible or even reasonable to imagine. Doesn't matter much anyway, since no one knows who is standing next to them. Everyone has their faces buried in smart phones.

    Training in SCM has little to do with performance in meets. I train LCM extensively (80+%) and have found that it does not harm my SCY meet times. I miss practicing turns, so I make the most of the LC turns.

    Many new pools are made oversquare, 25Mx25yds, unless they are waterparks. Then it is usually 50Mx25Y.
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  17. #57
    Very Active Member orca1946's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Maybe 30 years ago, when the USA was "trying" to enter in metrics ,pools would have been built, but now that we have said "kiss off" to the rest of the world, pools will remain without change in the USA!

  18. #58
    Very Active Member Midas's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    This thread is a blast from the past! I may have weighed in back in the day but I'll weigh in again as my views have probably changed over the years.

    As an age grouper, most of my High School meets were in SCM and I was indifferent as between SCY and SCM. As an adult, I definitely prefer SCY and perform better in SCY on a relative basis (relative to how I performed as an age grouper, which is still what I primarily compare my current times to). I think this is because I'm not nearly in the shape I was as a kid. So the extra distance in those 200's (and sadly even 100's) is not welcome (especially if I still have to make the same amount of turns (which I'm not great at)). On the other hand, I like LCM because you cut down on the turns. But SCM seems like the worst of both worlds.

    Also, I'm not an elite swimmer and have no business comparing myself against the rest of the world. I'm happy to compare myself against just other Americans and there's no better course to do that than SCY since that's the most prevalent.

    Of course, I voted (way back in 2008) to keep the SCM season and I stick by that for all the reasons people are articulating. No reason to jettison the season.

    I think the more interesting poll question would have been: If there were 2 meets on a given weekend, equally distant from where you live, and one was SCY and the other SCM, all other factors being equal which would you choose? I have to think most competitive masters swimmers in the US would pick SCY, even if some of our more outspoken elite swimmers on this board might choose otherwise.

  19. #59
    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: Not a Fan of Short Course Meters Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    This thread is a blast from the past! I may have weighed in back in the day but I'll weigh in again as my views have probably changed over the years.

    As an age grouper, most of my High School meets were in SCM and I was indifferent as between SCY and SCM. As an adult, I definitely prefer SCY and perform better in SCY on a relative basis (relative to how I performed as an age grouper, which is still what I primarily compare my current times to). I think this is because I'm not nearly in the shape I was as a kid. So the extra distance in those 200's (and sadly even 100's) is not welcome (especially if I still have to make the same amount of turns (which I'm not great at)). On the other hand, I like LCM because you cut down on the turns. But SCM seems like the worst of both worlds.

    Also, I'm not an elite swimmer and have no business comparing myself against the rest of the world. I'm happy to compare myself against just other Americans and there's no better course to do that than SCY since that's the most prevalent.

    Of course, I voted (way back in 2008) to keep the SCM season and I stick by that for all the reasons people are articulating. No reason to jettison the season.

    I think the more interesting poll question would have been: If there were 2 meets on a given weekend, equally distant from where you live, and one was SCY and the other SCM, all other factors being equal which would you choose? I have to think most competitive masters swimmers in the US would pick SCY, even if some of our more outspoken elite swimmers on this board might choose otherwise.
    All things being equal,I'd rather go to the SCM meet.Selfishly,that's because I'm better comparatively at SCM.
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