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Thread: USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

  1. #1
    Very Active Member NJMastR's Avatar
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    USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

    Hi all, I would like to get some LMSC feedback on whether or not there are different rates being charged between an LMSC Sanctioned meet vs. an LMSC Recognized meet. Currently, NJ does not charge different fees, but we are wondering what the practice is for other LMSCs.

    Appreciate your input.

    Many thanks, Chris

  2. #2
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    Re: USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

    The Ozark LMSC charges $25 for a sanction and $10 for a recognized event. This was recently raised from $5 for either type.

    Mary Pohlmann, Chair
    Ozark LMSC
    Mary Pohlmann

  3. #3
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    Re: USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

    In Virginia the charge is the same.

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    Re: USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

    In Michigan, we charge the same fee. The fee is $2.00 per registered swimmer in the meet. This seems to be fair because a small meet will not pay as much as a large meet. We have 11 sanctioned meets and 2 recognized meets per year. The two recognized meets we have are hosted by a high school and they have there own liability insurance.
    Skip Thompson

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    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

    We have a different system in Potomac Valley. We require a $100 deposit to get the sanction and assuming the meet is run properly and results submitted for Top Ten in the proper format, they get their full sanction deposit back. They get dinged a few bucks here and there for doing something wrong. Each meet has an evaluator to determine that they are doing things properly. Likewise for recognized meets - they need an evaluator and need to post a deposit.

    Jeff Roddin
    Potomac Valley

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    Re: USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

    Chris,
    The IL LMSC has 2 separate fees.

    $50.00/day for sanction/recognized competitive events; the meet host then gets $25/day back if the results are submitted properly within 2 weeks

    For clinics, non competitive events as $10.00, for example: 100 x 100 hosted by the Gray Sharks and Lincoln-Way's Swim a Palooza

    I like Jeff's idea of a high sanction fee. We have difficulty getting results with correct registration information since some meets allow deck entries.

  7. #7
    Active Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Re: USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

    In the Pacific Northwest, the "meet fee" is $1.75 per entrant for sanctioned meets only, collected after the event. That fee helps pay for the services that the PNA LMSC and USMS provide to the meet host (ad in the newsletter, deck equipment/signs, insurance, processing of results, etc...). Since those services are not offered to a "recognized" meet, there is no charge.

    In fact, the concept of levying a fee against a non-USMS group for putting on a swim meet doesn't make sense in the Pacific Northwest. The USMS sanction/recognition forms state "Times achieved at events may be considered for USMS national records and Top Ten times if the event has been granted recognition and a designated USMS observer is present and verifies in writing that the conduct of the competition conforms to the relevant USMS swimming rules and administrative regulations. Times achieved at events sanctioned by USA Swimming or SCN...shall be considered for USMS national records and Top Ten times without formal application for recognition. It is the responsibility of the swimmer to submit times obtained in recognized events..." Thus, there is no impetus for a USA-S host or BC Masters host to pay a recognition fee since (1) there is no need to apply for recognition, and (2) the USMS swimmer/member is responsible for the work needed to recognize the times. The only other meet that PNA routinely recognizes is the Washington State Senior Games, and there is usually a PNA board member who swims there and is charged by the PNA board to be the "designated observer".

    The PNA policy document does have a clause stating "Sanction/recognition fee for non-solicited sanctioned and recognized meets shall be $25.00." I am not aware of this fee actually being collected, and the PNA bid packet and meet budget worksheet doesn't mention this.
    Last edited by Frosty; November 25th, 2009 at 01:30 PM. Reason: edited for misspelling

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    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

    Quote Originally Posted by jroddin View Post
    We have a different system in Potomac Valley. We require a $100 deposit to get the sanction and assuming the meet is run properly and results submitted for Top Ten in the proper format, they get their full sanction deposit back. They get dinged a few bucks here and there for doing something wrong. Each meet has an evaluator to determine that they are doing things properly. Likewise for recognized meets - they need an evaluator and need to post a deposit.

    Jeff Roddin
    Potomac Valley
    I like this system. What do you consider "proper format" for TT submissions?

  9. #9
    Very Active Member jroddin's Avatar
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    Re: USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

    They need to publish results in "Publication format" (as opposed to event order) and include details spelled out in the rulebook (pool location, officials names and certs, sanction number, etc.) and provide this to the Top Ten Chair and/or webmaster. They also need to submit a commlink file that includes registration numbers for the swimmers.

  10. #10
    Very Active Member Muppet's Avatar
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    Re: USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

    Quote Originally Posted by jroddin View Post
    They need to publish results in "Publication format" (as opposed to event order) and include details spelled out in the rulebook (pool location, officials names and certs, sanction number, etc.) and provide this to the Top Ten Chair and/or webmaster. They also need to submit a commlink file that includes registration numbers for the swimmers.
    As someone who has been dinged several times in this PV system, this can be a PITA, but at the end of the day, we meet directors know ahead of time what is expected of us and (usually) after a meet or two, should be able to get through without a hitch. Having these guidelines not only helps us become better meet directors, but when it comes to USMS Top Ten, Records, etc., having the right info is important for anyone else who needs to use the data.

    Personally, the two biggest headaches I deal with are USMS Registration issues (people using last year's card, pending registrations, etc.) and providing our Top Ten person (who happens to be Mr. Roddin) with correct data. By moving to Club Assistant for online entries, these headaches are pretty much completely removed.
    man up, buttercup!

  11. #11
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: USMS Sanction vs. Recognition Fees Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Muppet View Post
    Personally, the two biggest headaches I deal with are USMS Registration issues (people using last year's card, pending registrations, etc.) and providing our Top Ten person (who happens to be Mr. Roddin) with correct data. By moving to Club Assistant for online entries, these headaches are pretty much completely removed.
    I'm sure dealing with Roddin is a huge PITA.

    I'm having trouble convincing some meet/race directors in our LMSC of the value of online entry; so I'm glad to hear of your positive experience (at least so far).

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