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Thread: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

  1. #21
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    You're welcome

    The way for her to get faster is [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=188495&postcount=1252"]Tip 265 Train harder, smarter, faster, further, more often, with a coach, with a team, in a convenient facility & at a convenient Time[/ame] (& have fun)

    increasing from 4 times a week to 5 or 6 times
    increasing from 1200 - 1500 a practice to 2, 3, or 4000 a practice
    adding exercises push ups, pull ups, jumps, sit ups, cross training from other sports

    Plus shes growing, she's getting bigger and stronger, that will make her faster.
    Just watch out for injuries and burn out

    I stay focused motivated and excited about swimming with dreaming, goal setting, planning, & doing my plans. All of these focus on preparing for one or two meets at the end of each season.

    People can do remarkable things when they are [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=35157&postcount=140"]truly inspired[/ame].
    "When you are inspired by some great purpose,
    some extraordinary project,
    all of your thoughts break their bonds:
    your mind transcends limitations,
    your consciousness expands in every direction and
    you find yourself in a new, great, and wonderful world.
    Dormant forces, faculties and talents become alive and
    you discover yourself to be a greater person than
    you ever dreamed yourself to be."
    ~Patanjali

    Streamline Dolphin Kicking (SDK) is one of the most important skills in swimming. It's great to start early and it's fun.

    There's several Tips on SDK here's [ame="http://www.usms.org/forums/showpost.php?p=196637&postcount=1283"]one with links to videos[/ame]

    Hope this helps,
    relax, have fun, work hard
    be a great example for your kids, show them with your actions instead of your words
    I have a friend who's daughters were great runners, they'd go running with mom or dad

    sibling rivalries help, I often see families with several swimmers and sometimes the youngest ones wind up the best because they work hard to keep up with the older ones.

    Ande

    Quote Originally Posted by RAC40 View Post
    That was a very informing post thanks.

    To your questions..

    She used to train 4 days a week on the team for 1 1/2 hours per session. she was swimming roughly 1,200 to 1,300 yards total.

    This new plan is she's doing 2 days week "swim club" 1,200 yards roughly which focuses on endurance and some technique and 1 day on sunday private lessons for 1 hour where the teacher is focusing strictly on some of the "competitve" techniques and stroke techniques to help her cut time. My belief s this private instructor is more qualified than her previous swim team coach.

    I wanted her to do at least 2 days a week where she would be with other swimmers and kids her own age and one day focusing on the competitive part of swimming. I guess I should give the kid a break though, I mean, she hasn't even puberty yet and she's an amazing swimmer! Puberty can make all the difference lol

    I do love her and I do support her but I just want her to take advantage of this golden opportunity while she is young to. You mentioned "skinny" swimmers?

    You mentioned "skinny" swimmers. Is being thin really a drawback? I know most flyers are heavy and built but I think there are quite a few fast "thin" swimmers out there to isn't there?
    Last edited by ande; January 6th, 2010 at 11:12 AM.

  2. #22
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    I will use the example of a friend on mine - he was an absolute swimming prodigy for our area (central CA). By 11 years old he was swimming a 24.5 50 yard free and a 30.0 50 yard breast. He was short and stocky - even at his peak in college he was only 5ft 9.

    He went on to swim at UCSB - great swimmer but never broke into the next level. I think there are 100's if not thousands of similar/same stories out there. It is probably especially obvious for parents who swam "club swimming" who now have kids doing the same. I know plenty of examples of kids who will never be as fast as a parent was in their "peak".

  3. #23
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by aquageek View Post
    Seriously man, she's nine, relax and let her swim. Hard to tell from just internet posts but you seem a tad bit obsessed. Nothing concrete can be said about a 9 year old swimmer except maybe they get wet when they jump in the water. 33 seconds in 2 months is nothing, I've seen highly trained kids in elite programs do that and better and also go the exact opposite way, with the same pro calibre coach. They are kids, they do strange things with times.

    If you don't trust the coach, switch programs. The worst thing you can do for your kid is go berserk about all of this at 9 years.
    Word.

    I have a 9 year old who swims too. I drop her off at practice and leave. I don't know her times. She says it's fun. She hasn't even swum in a USAS meet yet, which is fine by me.

    Swimming is a long career. They have to love it cuz it gets rough. Too much pressure, especially from parents, and too many workouts when young = burnout.

    My other swimmer kid was gifted when young and physically mature, but has hit a plateau at 15. Not uncommon. I'm sure your daughter has plenty of room for improvement, especially if she is skinny and small now.

  4. #24
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    RAC40, are you a swimmer, too? Did you swim as a kid? You sound like perhaps you were an athlete of some kind.

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    You got a lot of good (and some interresting) info here. But I wanted to add something small.

    I started swimming at 5 and was always behing "the phenomenom". I don't remember how old I was when I passed her up, but I did. I think I was around 10 yrs old or so. Anyway, at that point we began developing in different areas. I could NEVER beat her in any short sprint. But if it was over 200 yrds, she was dead last.

    Point - Yes, she'll be able to catch up, but when your daughter does catch up, it may be at short distance compared to this girl's sprinting power. Or visa-versa.

    My suggestion would be to keep her progressing on the path that's good for HER. She's still young where she may one day become great at the one stroke she basically sunk at before.

    Quote Originally Posted by ande View Post
    get her to practice but don't watch
    I don't understand why you wouldn't watch? I don't want to hijack the thread so you can pm me. (I'm interrested, not arguing, Please help me to understand)
    ~Lisa~

  6. #26
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Interesting.

    Private lessons aren't a bad thing. If she was talented in music, a tutor would be vital. I think the same concept applies to sports.


    Find a different team with a coach more to your liking, and trust him. Up the yardage. Light weights might be helpful, but be cautious, very cautious.

    I know that you are pretty proud of the 33 second drop. Is your daughter?

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    I think all the advice here has been right on and I appreciate it. To answer a few of the above questions yes I was very athletic in my younger days (mainly basketball) so I am very competitive. I do admit like someone here said I do tend to push and that I need to back off before I do damage to her that I cannot fix. It's just so hard when you see your 9 year old kid with a god given talent for something all you want to do is make sure that they make full use of it or else regret that they didn't because nobody pushed them hard enough when they were young.

    I will however say that I never allowed my daughter to be overworked though. Never did she practice more than 3 to 4 days. I like the point made by drowndrt. My daughter is totally a sprinter, short distances she's fast but slowly she's been getting more endurance and lasting longer in a race. great thing about being tall and thin is the lack of "load" you have to carry.

    I wonder slommafan if your friend did not break that barrier because of his physical attributes? What I'm trying to say is you can only work with what god gives you to work with. Some people are excellent swimmers but no matter how hard they try if they are not tall enough, strong enough or whatever they will only go so far.

    Anyone agree?

  8. #28
    Very Active Member Karen Duggan's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    I WHOLLY disagree that swimming should not be about fun first. The heck it shouldn't. I learned to swim at 9 and loved it because it was fun. Probably why I still swim 30 years later.

    My daughter did very well as a 5 year old and extremely well as a 6 year old. I gave her tips here and there, but I ALWAYS referred to the fun things about swimming. I never got upset with her. I praised her always for her EFFORTS, never her times. Not to say that we didn't celebrate her championship times, but they were not the focus of swimming.

    If you are having fun you are more likely to continue, and thus improve.

    Ande- I'm surprised at your advice regarding training for a 9 year old. IMHO that is excessive. I see little shoulders being decimated.

    That 9 year old RAC refers to is TALENTED. That is all. Summer Sanders was whoopin' me and everyone else when she was 9 (I was 12). It's called talent.

    What the future holds, for any swimmer, talented or otherwise, you don't know.

    Someone just sent me an e-mail and it referred to "be happy with who you are and what you have, it is enough". That's not to say you can't work hard, have goals and want to succeed, but you should do the best you can and not worry about what you have no control over (other swimmers)- well of course, unless, you are going to Tanya Harding them before a race!

    Something to think about.
    K.Duggan

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by stillwater View Post
    Interesting.

    Private lessons aren't a bad thing. If she was talented in music, a tutor would be vital. I think the same concept applies to sports.


    Find a different team with a coach more to your liking, and trust him. Up the yardage. Light weights might be helpful, but be cautious, very cautious.

    I know that you are pretty proud of the 33 second drop. Is your daughter?
    Funny thing even though my daughter enjoys swimming she has been accused by her previous coach (in a fun way) of being too casual with her emotions. She rarely shows emotion, very quiet and is all business on the starting block. She never likes to talk about swimming much and when the coach hands out awards (and she has over 40 ribbons, and an 8 and under championship trophy, certificates ect ect) she takes them with a grain of salt.

    I mean, she is proud of them but it seems like she expects them or something. I told her that the last you want to do is get so cocky that you expect these kinds of results everytime because I won't happen.

    She does have a very competitive spirit and hates to lose. I remember during a relay once we had a sucky relay team and were on the verge of being last and my daughter was the last one off the blocks. The one girl ahead of her had an entire half or more pool length lead and my daughter swam as fast as I ever seen her swim a freestyle and during the last length back passed this girl so we didn't finish last.

    You know, out of all the awards and 1st place ribbons I think that moment was the one moment in time where I was most proud of her. It showed real guts and what she was made of and what potential she had.

    Finishing second to last isn't great but how you finish second to last was important.

  10. #30
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAC40 View Post
    I wonder slommafan if your friend did not break that barrier because of his physical attributes? What I'm trying to say is you can only work with what god gives you to work with. Some people are excellent swimmers but no matter how hard they try if they are not tall enough, strong enough or whatever they will only go so far.

    Anyone agree?
    I'm finding it hard to agree with much of anything you are posting, sorry. You talk about pushing your daughter, for who's benefit, yours or hers? Maybe she's right where she wants to be and needs to be. All pushing does is cause the object being pushed to push back.

    I don't get what you mean by "only going so far." You only go as far as you want to go and there's nothing wrong with that.

    No kid on the planet wants or needs their parents watching them at a workout. It's a universal truism that parents who do that are mcloco cuckoo. Drop her off, go get a cup of coffee. Sitting there evaluating her and her coach seems to be driving you bananas. The sport is for her, not you.

    It's like I told wookie as I chased him at a meet with a pair of hedge clippers - I'm doing this for your own good. In retrospect, maybe it wasn't do good for him and maybe not so good for your daughter to obsess either.

  11. #31
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen Duggan View Post
    I WHOLLY disagree that swimming should not be about fun first. The heck it shouldn't. I learned to swim at 9 and loved it because it was fun. Probably why I still swim 30 years later.

    My daughter did very well as a 5 year old and extremely well as a 6 year old. I gave her tips here and there, but I ALWAYS referred to the fun things about swimming. I never got upset with her. I praised her always for her EFFORTS, never her times. Not to say that we didn't celebrate her championship times, but they were not the focus of swimming.

    If you are having fun you are more likely to continue, and thus improve.

    Ande- I'm surprised at your advice regarding training for a 9 year old. IMHO that is excessive. I see little shoulders being decimated.

    That 9 year old RAC refers to is TALENTED. That is all. Summer Sanders was whoopin' me and everyone else when she was 9 (I was 12). It's called talent.

    What the future holds, for any swimmer, talented or otherwise, you don't know.

    Someone just sent me an e-mail and it referred to "be happy with who you are and what you have, it is enough". That's not to say you can't work hard, have goals and want to succeed, but you should do the best you can and not worry about what you have no control over (other swimmers)- well of course, unless, you are going to Tanya Harding them before a race!

    Something to think about.

    This is one reason why I removed her from the team and enrolled her to something a bit more fun. I think she likes the kids better at this new place and afterwards they all get to use the gigantic slide after practice which my daughter likes.

    I'm really trying hard to being more fun with entire thing and at the same time letting her know that if she wants to be a better swimmer she has to have some sort of dedication to it. Fun is great but fun will not as I said make you better and faster.

    If that was the case every kid in america would be a great swimmer. As always there is a balance and figuring out what works for YOUR kid takes trial and error.

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by drowndrt View Post
    You got a lot of good (and some interresting) info here. But I wanted to add something small.

    My suggestion would be to keep her progressing on the path that's good for HER. She's still young where she may one day become great at the one stroke she basically sunk at before.


    I don't understand why you wouldn't watch? I don't want to hijack the thread so you can pm me. (I'm interrested, not arguing, Please help me to understand)
    Lisa, watching isn't bad in and of itself, but it becomes very difficult for a parent to refrain from discussing the practice session with the child. And I suppose there's nothing wrong with THAT, either, but then the kid has to do things like explain why the coach did this or that, why so and so was the lane leader for this set, and so on. Or has to hear constructive advice on his stroke, or in some other way re-live the practice session. A person WATCHING a practice is not likely to understand it the same way as the people who are SWIMMING it... and I'm just telling you, after a while these conversations can get to be a real drag for the kid. The kid may be grateful to the parent for the opportunity to swim, but when the parent is always there, it can't help but change the dynamics, even in the best of relationships. Plus, if your parent is watching, it makes it impossible to goof off at all, ever, and even the very best swimmers love to have a little fun now and then. It's part of what keeps them coming back year after year after year.

  13. #33
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Word again!

    Perhaps you should take ribbons won by a 9 year old with a grain of salt and stop counting them.

    Get her on a good team and hope she likes the sport. Kids don't always choose to do what they're best at or most suited for however.


    Quote Originally Posted by aquageek View Post
    I'm finding it hard to agree with much of


    anything you are posting, sorry. You talk about pushing your daughter, for who's benefit, yours or hers? Maybe she's right where she wants to be and needs to be. All pushing does is cause the object being pushed to push back.

    I don't get what you mean by "only going so far." You only go as far as you want to go and there's nothing wrong with that.

    No kid on the planet wants or needs their parents watching them at a workout. It's a universal truism that parents who do that are mcloco cuckoo. Drop her off, go get a cup of coffee. Sitting there evaluating her and her coach seems to be driving you bananas. The sport is for her, not you.

    It's like I told wookie as I chased him at a meet with a pair of hedge clippers - I'm doing this for your own good. In retrospect, maybe it wasn't do good for him and maybe not so good for your daughter to obsess either.

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by aquageek View Post
    I'm finding it hard to agree with much of anything you are posting, sorry. You talk about pushing your daughter, for who's benefit, yours or hers? Maybe she's right where she wants to be and needs to be. All pushing does is cause the object being pushed to push back.

    I don't get what you mean by "only going so far." You only go as far as you want to go and there's nothing wrong with that.

    No kid on the planet wants or needs their parents watching them at a workout. It's a universal truism that parents who do that are mcloco cuckoo. Drop her off, go get a cup of coffee. Sitting there evaluating her and her coach seems to be driving you bananas. The sport is for her, not you.

    It's like I told wookie as I chased him at a meet with a pair of hedge clippers - I'm doing this for your own good. In retrospect, maybe it wasn't do good for him and maybe not so good for your daughter to obsess either.
    What you are saying could be true if I could trust that the coach of her team was fit to be coaching. As I said before, dropping my daughter off to practice and "trusting" this man to do a good job coaching my daughter would be fine and dandy except for the fact that she's shown no visible signs of improvement under him.

    I dunno, maybe you are more trusting of people than I. It's a fact that to become better at something you need to learn by someone who knows what they are doing. By my "getting a cup of coffee" does no good to my daughter is she remains on a team for the next 5 years under a coach who has done absolutely nothing.

    The reason I "watch" my daughter practice has more to do with the quality of learning she is getting. There are swim clubs out there that if you let them will sock you an arm and a leg and take advantage of you if they can do it. My daughter has real talent and it's MY responsibility to make sure she has the SAME opportunity as the superstar kid down the road who grew up learning from a descent coach and not some fool.

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    Word again!

    Perhaps you should take ribbons won by a 9 year old with a grain of salt and stop counting them.

    Get her on a good team and hope she likes the sport. Kids don't always choose to do what they're best at or most suited for however.
    That is a supid comment.

    Why should she not be proud of them? She has them on her desk to remind her of all her hard work and the rewards that come with hard work. You make it sound like it is a crime to be rewarded.

    Perhaps swim clubs should not issue rewards out at all and just let them swim. Perhaps it is the swim clubs that are obsessed and not the parent? First off, you don't know me and you never have seen how I react when my daughter wins. I do not "count her ribbons" nor do I scream and shout praising her almighty name. I congradulate her efforts, tell her good job and that is it.

    The problem is exactly people like you who "assume" all parents are the same and all parents react in the same way. I obviously know something about swimming or she would have not improved as she did under my training. it would be different if I knew nothing of the sport and was just a casual fan like most parents.

  16. #36
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAC40 View Post
    The reason I "watch" my daughter practice has more to do with the quality of learning she is getting. There are swim clubs out there that if you let them will sock you an arm and a leg and take advantage of you if they can do it. My daughter has real talent and it's MY responsibility to make sure she has the SAME opportunity as the superstar kid down the road who grew up learning from a descent coach and not some fool.
    I stand by my universal truism statement. Hovering over your daughter (and the rest of her team incidentally) does absolutely nothing for her, her teammates, the coaching staff. Our team has 600+ kids, all with real talent, so does every other club in America. That doesn't give any single parent the right to ruin the experience for every other kid out there. Toxic parents can destroy a team.

    Maybe it's just hard for you to type what you are feeling but from the outside, this all looks like a big stew of disaster waiting to blow up.

  17. #37
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAC40 View Post
    It's just so hard when you see your 9 year old kid with a god given talent for something all you want to do is make sure that they make full use of it or else regret that they didn't because nobody pushed them hard enough when they were young.
    Don't worry about this. If she does have talent, that talent ain't going anywhere. At this point all she really needs to do is have fun and work on the fundamentals. She has the opportunity to learn bad habits as well as good ones right now. She won't lose anything if she doesn't push it hard now other than swimming faster right now. Down the road if she's ready to train hard the fact that she didn't train hard when she was nine is a non-issue.

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    I am really trying to figure out what you mean by "hovering". I mean, at every practice I am off to the sidelines, in the stands. It's not like I am standing over the edge of the pool.

    Also, for you information, on days when I decide I don't really want to attend her practice she asks me why not and wants me to go so go figure. The sad thing is this conversation has gotten away from the real topic and about me which I am sorry but you are way off base with that one.

    If I was the type of prent who stands by the pool talking to her during pactice and talking to her coach I could see your point but I not. You all like most people just assume that because a parent wants to be involved with their kids swimming they are nothing but disaster waiting to happen.

    THAT is false.

  19. #39
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    I didn't say she shouldn't enjoy her ribbons -- I said you shouldn't so much. I'm not making any assumption about your meet conduct either. But your defensiveness is suggestive.

    Successfully maximizing potential is a tricky endeavor ... That's why fun is paramount.

    Glad you know how to coach swimming. Now work on spelling!



    Quote Originally Posted by RAC40 View Post
    That is a supid comment.

    Why should she not be proud of them? She has them on her desk to remind her of all her hard work and the rewards that come with hard work. You make it sound like it is a crime to be rewarded.

    Perhaps swim clubs should not issue rewards out at all and just let them swim. Perhaps it is the swim clubs that are obsessed and not the parent? First off, you don't know me and you never have seen how I react when my daughter wins. I do not "count her ribbons" nor do I scream and shout praising her almighty name. I congradulate her efforts, tell her good job and that is it.

    The problem is exactly people like you who "assume" all parents are the same and all parents react in the same way. I obviously know something about swimming or she would have not improved as she did under my training. it would be different if I knew nothing of the sport and was just a casual fan like most parents.

  20. #40
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAC40 View Post
    I do not "count her ribbons" nor do I scream and shout praising her almighty name. I congradulate her efforts, tell her good job and that is it.
    Um, yes you did, 40 to be precise. Put the ribbons in a box, put them under her bed and look back on them in 30 years when she has kids who swim. That's always fun, although in my case it proved my wife kicked my tail in the pool as an age grouper.

    Look, you asked our opinions and many of us have kids the exact same age as yours. If you don't like our opinions, don't bother with asking.

    I have no idea if you know a thing about swimming. I've seen kids drop time after being out of the sport for months on end.

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