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Thread: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

  1. #81
    Very Fetching Rump SwimStud's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by aquageek View Post
    It took me seven years to drop 3 seconds in my 200 free as a Masters. Maybe I should have taken my Dad to my Master's practices to hover over me and berate me, seems to work for RAC.
    Don't need your dad for that...that's why you are on the forum...

    Odd thread topic...seems a bid "braggy parent" to me...but I didn't read it all...I don't think I could.
    There's an 8 year old on our team went a :32 low in the 50 LCM...I went :32 lower though and beat him...head to head too...in front of all the parents...
    Last edited by SwimStud; January 7th, 2010 at 12:31 AM.



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  2. #82
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Yep, I about give up here since most of you regardless of what I have to say refuse to believe what I say and will only believe what you want to believe.

    Never had I stated that I hover over my daughter and like a hawk trying to give her advice. Actually, just got back from her practice about 6 hours ago and it was fine and dandy. She had a hard but good practice, went down the water slide a number of times and had a smoothie afterwards no problem whatsoever. She says she likes her new teacher, the kids, the atmosphere so it seems me pulling her off the team and putting her here was the better choice so deal with it.

    None of you can point out a post that I made where I said I get in her face. In fact, I've stated the opposite more than I can count. I don't mind being the punching bag for some of you but at least back it up with quotes from MY posts and not just assume everything which most of you continue to do.

    As far as "bragging" goes I don't consider it bragging I consider it "being proud" of your kids accomplishments. I'm sorry if your kids have not had any but why punish me for that.

    Anyways, I refuse to let people like you bring me down and make me doubt my efforts concerning my kid. I suppose if I told you my kid was a D student and sucked at swimming that would make you pretty happy and feel "right" but that's not the case sorry.

    In closing, you can all trash me all you want but it won't change the fact that all your accusations have no merit. They are simply accusations.

    You all are reading what I say but not hearing it.

    Jesus, give people a 500 plus post count and their word is law around here.

    Rediculous.

  3. #83
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by shahboz View Post
    Um yeah... wow

    So my daughter is really fast too. At 7 she is beating my age group times and not far off 10 and under JO cuts in Fl... That said, I don't think it is appropriate to really start pressing her training until she gets closer to her teen years. I want her to have fun! Have the great memories of friends and good-times that I had as a kid in age-group swimming. All the girls that she swims with are great friends.
    That's hilarious.

    You make it sound like every team is nothing but sunshine and rainbows at that age.

    NOT

    The team my daughter just left was nothing but self centered kids who only talked with other kids their own age. My daughter was ignored and treated like crap on that team and she didn't even do anything to any of these kids.

    Yeah, fond memories alright.

    Fact is the older kids were just jealous being beat by a 9 year old kid that's all. You can say all you want about kids being on swim teams to have fun and socialize but at the end of the day many of them want to be #1 period.

    Kids are human to and they don't like to lose. I don't know what planet you are from but you should get your head out of the clouds.

  4. #84
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAC40 View Post
    I bet you all are actually a bunch of out of shape 45 year old farts with no life who "claim" to be swimmers.


    You guys are nothing but frauds.

    God how pathetic.
    I won't deny I am pathetic but why don't you go to a USMS meet and test the waters with us old farts? Put up or shut up.

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    WOW!

    I post something yesterday morning (here in the UK) and by the following day 100’s of opinions and ultimately a breakdown in debate to insults etc – disappointing!

    RAC40 as you will see on page 1 I did say that forums like this are very democratic and if you don’t like that fact, then don’t put the post up in the first place. Having read every one I think on balance there is lot of fair comment and wisdom but of course ultimately no conclusion….

    As I said previously for me the goal in parenting is producing is a rounded human being that can function in this crazy world. Athletic success can be an important element but it is only one of many alternatives. You mentioned a “straight A” student and other comments on the state of misguided youth. Remember your child is one of the lucky ones (the have’s) and while I admire your parenting commitment you have to be careful of judging others who might not get the same life chances that you and your family might have had…

    As I say, life is very complicated – but IMO athletic success or otherwise as an adolescent is unlikely to make the difference to overall fulfilment and success as a person…

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    I know it sounds like a lot of these people seem to be disrespecting you but I do believe it's their way of wanting you to succeed.

    I've orchestrated and have been invited to many clinics where coaches like Bob Steele and George Block came to our pool, inspiring everyone. A lot of great coaches who have wealth of knowledge, different perspectives on coaching and training athletes, will come to your pool for a day or two, helping lift your program to a new level. They also inspired the swimmers to reach new levels (awesome). We've had numerous Olympians put on clinics where they let the swimmers train with them, wear their goal medals (many in Josh Davis' case) and talk to coaches. As a coach I've been sent by my program or simply went on my own to watch the NCAA's, Eddie Reese's practices, Mark Schubert's, Urbanchek and on and on (it takes some money and that means your financial help).

    My point is; a parent can positively influence their swimmer, coaches, parents, and the entire program by fundraising for a clinic. You'll have fun, learn a lot and almost always get something positive from the experience. Offer to send your coach to a clinic, invite a coach to your place and I know you get the idea but it's something I hope you pursue. I understand where you coming from and good luck to you!

    Coach T.

  7. #87
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    Bad or you and bad for the kid.
    I'll take it a step further and say it is bad for the team. Parents like this loony toon are a big big problem for coaches and the other swimmers aroud his kid.

    Now, if you'll pardon me, I have to go count my daughters' ribbons and yell at their teachers before I head to Target for my shift.

  8. #88
    Very Active Member FlyQueen's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    The reason you are getting mostly comments about your parenting is because most people here have either witnessed or been in the same situation you are in with your daughter. Odds are high that she will end up hating the sport and resenting you. That may sound harsh but I'm going to put it out there.

    I have coached kids at a huge variety or levels. The kids that are the most successful are the ones that have fun and have parents that care about them but trust the coaches. Being a second coach is only going to piss off the current coach and undermind his coaching in the eyes of your daughter.

    You hear stories about top swimmers taking time off and "rediscovering their love" of the sport. Dana Vollmer is a great example of this. I was surprised when she didn't make the team in 08. She is swimming insanely fast right now. Why? Because as she has stated in interviews she had to remember why she did the sport. She does it because she loves it. NOT because her parents pushed her to or her coach wants her to. The most successful people in life and sport are internally driven, love what they do and race with nothing to lose rather than in fear of losing.

    I had two sub groups in the summer league group I coached. As the head coach I took the older and more experienced kids and let my assistant work with the younger kids. I focused on technique, made sure we played a game or two each day and that they had fun at meets. My assistant punished the kids, yelled at them and focused on yardage. My group grew and dropped lots of time. His group started dwindling and a few kids said they didn't want to swim the next year. I ended up having to coach both groups.

    Right now your daughter might enjoy swimming but she is also swimming for you. I GUARANTEE part of her motivation (wether or not she actually realizes it) comes from her need to please you and make you happy.

    If you want your daughter to have success past age 12 back off. Let the coaches do their jobs and let your daughter have fun.
    Last edited by FlyQueen; January 7th, 2010 at 01:25 PM.
    "I don't race to see who is the fastest, I race to see who has the most guts."

  9. #89
    Very Active Member knelson's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAC40 View Post
    By the way, do you people live on the internet or what?
    Dude, you've posted 28 times in this thread and you're accusing others of living on the internet?

    Yes, some of the responses have been a little accusatory toward you, but you aren't exactly an innocent victim here. You've asked us for advice and we've given it. You might like what everyone has to say, but it's not really for you to decide what everyone else's opinion should be. Also it seems like your opinions are set in stone, so why'd you bother soliciting advice in the first place?

    Anyway, I hope you have received some useful info here. I can tell you that I've personally met and swam against lots of people in this forum and many are far, far from being out of shape or frauds by any measure.

  10. #90
    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    I clearly haven't been able to keep up on all of the comments here, but let me offer some thoughts. As background for my credibility to comment:

    • My father was a competitive swimmer
    • My brother, two sisters and I all tried competitive swimming:
      • My older and sister and I did the whole age group/year-round thing (hard core) through collegiate swimming at Division I level.
      • My younger sister did age group until about 12 or 13, stopped for a number of years and/or only did summer swimming through HS, then came back and swam on her collegiate team at a small private university.
      • My younger brother, definitely the best athlete of us, was a great 10 & under swimmer, but just didn't like the sport. He stopped and went on to be a high quality multi-sport athlete in things like golf, basketball, etc.

    • I coached 10 to 13 year olds on a YMCA team for 2 years, as well as a summer league team.
    • I currently have all three of my daughters, aged from 6 to almost 14, on a year-round age group program.

    My reaction to the original question and some of the comments:

    • Why are some 9 year olds faster than others? At this age, speed is almost completely a function of physicial maturity / power-to-weight ratio and raw natural athletic talent / "giftedness" / "feel for the water."
    • Where should motivation come from - the parent, the swimmer? The swimmer. I was a very driven swimmer (probably because I sucked at soccer, basketball, running, etc.) and it's been a very hard lesson for me to learn as a parent of swimmers than I can't impose my drive on my children. I'm like a recovering alcoholic on this point and need to watch myself every day, but the push needs to come from the child. I can and do support my kids in ensuring they have access to a good team, get them to workouts & meets and then support their team through officiating and other volunteer activity. We have parent-coach meetings and do ask our children to set their own goals and offer our help (at their instigation) in developing strategies to reach their goals, but try hard to let the coaches coach.
    • Should swimming be fun for the child? Absolutely. I loved swimming, loved killing myself in workouts and still do. This is a hard sport that requires a lot of commitment if a kid wants to stick with it; if they don't love it, I doubt they'll last long. But, that's true of any sport. I think we all need to remember that the vast majority of our kids no matter what sport they are in are NOT going to become superstars; their sports endeavors should be oriented towards fun, health benefits and the life lessons like goal setting, commitment, etc.

  11. #91
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by aquageek View Post
    Now, if you'll pardon me, I have to go count my daughters' ribbons and yell at their teachers before I head to Target for my shift.
    Target is "The Show" for fat n lazy 45 year olds...Geek you're only Walmart material...



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  12. #92
    Very Active Member Chris Stevenson's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    RAC40, so it seems you had two questions. Heather gave a great reply from her perspective as a coach and a teacher (and swimmer, of course) and you should definitely respect her expertise. For what it is worth, here is mine as a lifelong swimmer, and a parent of a swimmer about your daughter's age.

    First question: why are some kids so fast?

    Innate talent. Differences in rates of physical development. That "inner competitive fire" that some kids have.

    I think your motivation in asking this question is basically, what can I do to make my daughter more like one of those kids? The answer is really, not much beyond providing her with opportunity and encouragement.

    Second question: what should I do with my daughter?

    -- find a team environment that your daughter enjoys.
    -- find a coach who is a good technician and also "gets" how to work with kids. Besides being a concerned father, you are a paying customer and you have a right to ask questions when seeking the right program. But once you find it (echoing Heather), back off. Don't constantly second-guess and give it time to work. Especially do not question the coaches' knowledge/authority in front of your daughter.
    -- praise your daughter for her successes and encourage her in a positive way to work hard to overcome any setbacks.

    You asked about private lessons. They can help, but be very careful. On the one hand, learning the proper technique is one of the most important things for your daughter right now. You don't want her to unlearn bad habits later on; it is much easier to learn proper technique at 9 than at 15. You should be happier if your daughter loses but shows beautifully efficient strokes, than if she wins as a "thrasher." Strength and conditioning will come naturally with time and training; proper technique will not.

    The big advantage of private lessons is that they are one-on-one, of course. Even the best coach has his/her attention divided among all the swimmers. The caveat is that proper technique requires reinforcement, and there are different -- sometimes conflicting -- ways of doing this. You need to find a person whose style "meshes" with your daughter's coach. I would recommend going up and asking the coaches about this (in a way that doesn't put them on the defensive, of course). There may be current or former swimmers from that program who give private lessons, for example.

    But private lessons are a supplement, no replacement for working with a coached program. And you wouldn't want that, anyway; one of the benefits of competitive swimming is (or should be) the team environment.

    Good luck.

  13. #93
    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by pwbrundage View Post
    , I think we all need to remember that the vast majority of our kids no matter what sport they are in are NOT going to become superstars; their sports endeavors should be oriented towards fun, health benefits and the life lessons like goal setting, commitment, etc.[/LIST]
    How true! I wish more parents could just come to terms with this simple fact.

  14. #94
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    I am going to say it again , SHE IS NINE YEARS OLD!

    I would think that you would be happy just to see her smile after practice or a race.

    Maybe I don't expect enough from my children but thier smiles after competing (gymnastics and swimming) is good enough for me.

    BTW, I don't know if I have ever met a "out of shape" swimmer. Swimming is a wonderful sport that obviously you can do throughout you life. I do hope that your daughter will continue to participate in swimming no matter what skill level she has or good she gets.
    Last edited by joel schmaltz; January 7th, 2010 at 11:44 AM.

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by RAC40 View Post
    That's hilarious.

    The team my daughter just left was nothing but self centered kids who only talked with other kids their own age. My daughter was ignored and treated like crap on that team and she didn't even do anything to any of these kids.

    Yeah, fond memories alright.

    Fact is the older kids were just jealous being beat by a 9 year old kid that's all. You can say all you want about kids being on swim teams to have fun and socialize but at the end of the day many of them want to be #1 period.
    Funny, at 41 Im still friends with the kids I swam with at 9 and I still have contact with most of my coaches.

    If you are in a bad program then switch, its that simple.
    Last edited by shahboz; January 7th, 2010 at 11:36 AM.

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by joel schmaltz View Post
    I am going to sy it again , SHE IS NINE YEARS OLD!

    I would think that you would be happy just to see her smile after practice or a race.

    Maybe I don't expect enough from my children but thier smiles after competing (gymnastics and swimming) is good enough for me.

    BTW, I don't know if I have ever met a "out of shape" swimmer. Swimming is a wonderful sport that obviously you can do throughout you life. I do hope that your daughter will continue to participate in no matter what skill level she has or good she gets.
    HEAR HEAR

  17. #97
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    I think he's gone, which stinks cause this was one of the more amusing threads we've had in a while. I'm officiating a meet this weekend so I'll try to be collecting crazy parent stories, shouldn't be too hard.

  18. #98
    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Quote Originally Posted by aquageek View Post
    I'll try to be collecting crazy parent stories, shouldn't be too hard.
    This would be a fun snarky thread to start ... as long as no one posts nasty stories about me when I lapse and channel my inner psycho swim parent that I'm trying hard to repress.

  19. #99
    Very Active Member Karen Duggan's Avatar
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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    Wow!
    Suzanne was telling me that there ended up being more than 90 posts on this. Amazing.

    I loved the post about 'Geek working at Target. Classic. As a regular Target customer, "Geek can you get me a discount?"

    Now, if you'll excuse me I need to mouse around to other sites so I can look up all the stats on the 7-8 girls who might beat my daughter this year!


    Love you guys, BTW. You make me laugh.
    K.Duggan

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    Re: 9 Year Old Marvel What? But How?

    A little off topic, but this thread made me think of a book that Ande recommended in another thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by ande View Post
    here were some suggestions for books about swimming:

    Jon Urbanchek recommended the Talent Code but it's not about swimming
    I just finished reading it and it was pretty eye opening with regard to how people learn. It deals with kids, coaching, motivation and practice. I highly recommend it - especially to parents of "child prodigies."
    Last edited by djacks; January 7th, 2010 at 12:57 PM.

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