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Thread: Is your pool too hot !

  1. #21
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Let me get this correct...

    Laineybug (I like your handle, BTW):

    You state there is a social component to bloberizing like a kick set. I can tell you in a tough kick set no one is talking but the noodling crowd never stops talking, never.

    Next, you state you see folks breathing heavily at the end. That is our point, how in the world can floating on a noodle and talking induce heavy breathing? If that is the case, there is very little exercise component of water aerobics.

    Then you state noodles are like pull bouys, fins etc. Well, that isn't the case at all. Noodles support your entire body weight and don't do a single bit of isolating other than isolate the person from actually performing exercise. If noodles had any value as a workout toy, you'd see every Masters team in America using them for a set or two. Plus, if you use water toys as a Masters swimmer, you will generally reduce your intervals to compensate for the little boost they give you.

    I try to be tolerant but can't figure out water aerobics to save my life. I see no point in it and them guys are just plain mean to us lap swimmers to boot! It won't be long before they put cup holders on noodles to complete the package.

  2. #22
    Very Active Member laineybug's Avatar
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    you are right if the person is sitting on the noodle, talking and not doing the exercise then they aren't exercising, but I did say our classes are different... there is no talking during the aerobic part. I believe it was somewhere on this site that a coach said he/she put in kick sets because the swimmers enjoyed the 'social' aspect of them. Oh? Noodles don't help to isolate? try puting a small noodle under each ankle and then do crunches.

    BTW--thank you!

  3. #23
    Very Active Member Shaky's Avatar
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    I apologize in advance for the things I'm about to say. I don't mean them to be as rude as they'll likely sound.

    Originally posted by laineybug
    Yes there are the over weight MEN and WOMEN, who need to start exercise in the water because exercising on land would be too strenuous for them.
    You're going to have a hard time convincing most of us that this is really exercise for anyone but those with verified medical handicaps.

    Exercise is supposed to be strenuous. That's why you do it. If you don't exert yourself, you don't reap any rewards. Most of these people (the ones without a medical handicap) would be better served using that 45 minutes of water aerobics to walk around their neighborhoods. I know there is a small percentage of them who can't walk that well, but the overwhelming majority I see are not in that category. Besides, for those with physical disabilities, water aerobics would be more a form of physical therapy than exercise and should be taking place under medical supervision in a dedicated physical therapy pool with the temperature regulated for that purpose. That's not what we're really talking about here.

    Besides their tendency to get in the way of other pool users and to complain about the temperature, it also bothers me that these people are really getting ripped off. It's a form of fraud. The instructors know that these exercises are not going to help these people lose weight or make significant gains in their physical fitness, yet they still sell it as a full aerobic workout minus the joint stress that can result from real aerobics on land. Sure, the instructors seem to be fit, so their followers think they can get fit under their tutelage; but the scam is that the instructors are doing more than just water aerobics to stay in shape. The followers buy right into it, because they think they've found the magic way to get exercise without strenuous exertion or any physical discomfort.

    Is it better than sitting on the couch? Sure. But so is standing up. This is "exercise" for people who don't really want to exercise. These classes are competing for the same customers as those electro-shock ab machines you see on late night infomercials.

    I refer to them occasionally as "elderly ladies." That's actually something of a mischaracterization. In the classes at my pool, men and women of all adult age groups show up. But they are all shaped and move like old fat women. These are mostly people who could handle more strenuous activity, but lack the will power to withstand the discomfort that comes with real exercise. If they're going to do old ladies' exercises, I can't help but think of them as old ladies.

    Before anyone accuses me of not understanding the people in these classes, let me tell you about a personal experience. A certain relative of mine had a weight problem from eating and sitting in front of the television all the time. Because of her weight, it hurt her to move around; but her doctor told her she needed exercise if she wanted to live past 50. So she joined a water aerobics group. It helped bring down her blood pressure a little, but the weight stayed on.

    After a year of it with no results, she finally decided to endure the discomfort and start walking. She started small and worked her way up. She also started dropping pounds. As the pounds dropped off, walking became easier, and she went further. She realized that she had been in a catch 22, where she couldn't get the weight off until she exercised, but the weight itself made exercise uncomfortable. She also realized that the water aerobics didn't help her escape that vicious circle. I have the overwhelming impression that many of the people in these classes are in the same situation.

    I'll leave off with this: In your own description of the classes at your pool, you qualify your own attendance with a sort of "but I do more strenuous exercise first and only use it to cool down and stretch." If this is really an exercise with any significant benefit, why do you find it necessary to engage in the more strenuous activity beforehand?

    Dang, did I just write all that? Sorry for following the tangent, but since these water aerobes seem to be responsible for the majority of the temperature problems in our pools, I guess it's relevant.

  4. #24
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    Aquageek,

    Hmmmmm no talking when you are working out. Isn't the talk test a way to see if you are running too hard, if you can carry on a conversation while running then you are doing aerobic work (ie with air) if you are unable to talk then that would be anaerobic. Since most of these people are just looking for health and fitness then most of their work would be aerobic so being able to talk wouldn't be too far from the norm.
    I think its pretty sad how it constantly comes up to a 'bash' fest with water aerobics. Once again I understand - I have seen my share of classes where people look out of shape, overweight or whatever. We have all seen the facts about obesity, at least these people are getting out an moving rather than sitting at home parked on the sofa eating bon bons (or whatever) watching tv. Even social interaction has a health benefit, so whats wrong with socializing while working out. As to why they are floating around or sitting during the workout- could be a million reasons among those arthritis, cardio vascular issues, surgery, back and neck injuries and on. First hand accounts on using aqua exercise, rehab my knee ( an ACL reconstruct and meniscus tear) and my wife for her first pregnancy (she is not a swimmer, but the water exercise was a good workout without impact and actually helped in dealing with swelling in the last tri-mester).
    The fact is there are good instructors and bad instructors (just as in any profession). We have dry land instructors (teach spinning, body pump, step aerobics and kick box) that come in and teach our aqua exercise classes too - I have one instructor who teaches only aqua exercise, and the comments are her workouts are harder than the dry land instructors who come in and teach (BTW all our aqua exercise instructors are AEA certified).
    Unfortunately the pool issues are up to the facility management, you can voice your opinion, just keep in mind that it is pretty obvious that a pool can't be all things to everyone, you would need about 10 different pools in the same facility to accomplish this.

  5. #25
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Now that was a good post

    Shaky makes the points I was afraid to. Political correctness (and the fear of having your post deleted) dictates we accept this as some sort of sport and legitimize it by calling it aerobics. You go to even a beginner low impact land aerobic class and you will see some people sweating.

    Anyway, I grew up at a pool basically and never until the 90s saw this water noodling epidemic. The older men and women I saw in the pool growing up swam laps, played tennis, jogged, etc. There was never any sort of floating. As a matter of fact, my pool prohibited water flotation devices.

    I will consider using a noodle when I swim - on the days I don't care to work out hard. Pools are for swimming, the ocean for floating, unless you are a crazy open water swimmer.

  6. #26
    Very Active Member jerrycat's Avatar
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    If I saw just one of The Blobs really working it, I certainly would not be posting any comment. Again, just one single person.

    Instead, what I see are human jellies floating via belt, and barely moving their feet or hands. Most of which are actually younger people, but look much older due to their obesity.

    We've all done drills in the deep end, where one treads fast and furious for a dedicated amount of time. These drills leave a person worn out, and even sore at times...because it's actually real work!

    Even the handicapped people at the lap pool work harder, and are more fit than The Blobs. And, yes, one could argue that "they're making an effort." However, it just seems to me, that in fact, they are not making an effort at all. It's society that pays the price for the avoidable health problems of being severly overweight!

    I've heard in England if one has high blood pressure, etc. that the perscription is diet and exercise. Here it's several different medications! What's wrong with this picture!?

    Maybe it's different at some pools, but for the most part, these aerobics classes enable obesity, and creat disillusion because it makes people "feel like they're trying". Puhlease.

    The other sad part, is that my health club has a cafe--and often times I see The Blobs in there eating cookies, and other fattening foods. This drives me crazy.

    Outside of rehab, pregnancy, or handicap, water aerobics is useless and displaced effort. If any one of those class participants decided to come over and swim some laps, I would gladly share a lane, because I would be thrilled to see effort.

    Lainey and a couple of others might have a different type of water aerobics program at her pool (one that is actually effective), but in general, we're all feeling the same pain.

    Why does this topic get me so fired up, I ask myself!


  7. #27
    Very Active Member eliana2003's Avatar
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    Angry Devil's advocate

    snip>And, it never fails that one of the fittest swimmers is in the pool--a guy who does the Ironman every year--and they make him move for the sake of The Blobs.

    In my opinion, water classes are an insult to fitness. And also an insult to anyone who sees a participant, as it could nearly make one's eyes fall out (and not in a good way, if you know what I mean). <snip>

    Why are we taking the p*ss out of others on this forum? I totally understand the frustration regarding the relationship between overly heated pools and aqua fitness people- but do we have to resort to name calling? I'm somewhat chubby and I quite frankly I resent the use of the term, 'blob,' when refering to those who are overweight.

    Again, I totally agree with what has been said about the 'no pain, no gain,' theories; I've done many types of training from boxing (proper boxing, not that cardio rubbish) to training for triathlons, and the only way to get fit is to train hard (and I mean HARD)... but sometimes you just have to worry about your own training and less about others...

    SO, what WAS this thread about, anyway??

    peace...

  8. #28
    Very Active Member jerrycat's Avatar
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    Blob refers to those who are severly overweight, could help themselves via effective exercise and healthy diet, but opt not to try to help themselves at all.
    Obviously that's not you Elaine.

    As a consequence of such people who do not try, society pays the price in terms of healthcare.

    If someone chooses to eat 4 supersized meals a day, and weigh 300 or more pounds, fine. Do it. But, please don't get in the pool and demand a high temperature only to loaf around on a noodle, pretending to do activity. Not only is that useless, but it makes others who are really trying to improve and achieve fitness, suffer.

    For some reason this topic just gets me everytime...so I'm off the box now.


  9. #29
    Very Active Member eliana2003's Avatar
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    Hey- I totally hear where you're coming from regarding the clinically obese- I used to be really overweight because of medication- I got fed up with my body image, stopped all med.s and made up my mind to lose the weight, which I did. I met my husband who is really into fitness, and I started working out and have never looked back...

    Again, I agree with what has been said about going through the motions of exercise (living in S. Florida, we see all sorts of people in all shapes and sizes waddling around because their doctor told them to); it's kind of like the obese guy ordering pie a la mode and telling the waitor to make sure that the coke is diet...

    We have water aerobic classes (or whatever they're called) where I train, and yes, some of them can really irritate me... but so can some of the lap swimmers as well- one of my pet peeves is the senior citizens (g-d love them!) who will stand at the end of my lane in anticipation of my leaving so they can have the third lane from the ladder (for some reason, they have to use the SAME lane EVERY day, or the world will collapse or something)- one chap in particular will stand there, obviously dismayed that I (and the rest of the Masters) haven't finished by exactly 8 a.m., on the dot... I'm not even half-way out of the lane, and he's already splashing towards me, fins, snorkel and all...

    I guess we just have to realise (myself included) that the world doesn't revolve around us wonderful masters' swimmers and just get on with it...

    Having said ALL that... I find it hard to believe that the management at these facilities do not realise how unhealthy- and dangerous- it is to have the water temp. so high in the summer, esp. for the teams that have to train in them...

  10. #30
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    Aquageek,

    The reason why you probably never saw the overweight people before was probably due to the thought process at the time. It wasn't to long ago when the thought was to put people away (ie you had heart surgery, a stroke, arthritis, diabetes, asthma....whatever) no more physical activities, time for backgammon, shuffle board, knitting. My father was an example of this, his junior year he was diagnosed as a juvenile brittle diabetic and was restricted from playing on the High School football team (which he did his 1st two years - running back and defensive back so not necessarily a big person by any standard). New thinking and what have you now, Gary Hall an insulin dependent diabetic (like my father) national level swimmer and olympic champion. The big difference here is just the thinking of the time - there are plenty of kids who are diabetic participating in sports because the thinking has changed with education and research.
    As I have said before, I can understand where your comments are coming from, there is truth to them but at the same time it may come from not being educated. One facility I was a supervisor at we had an Aqua exercise class made up of almost all seniors ( let me explain this so as not to sound politically incorrect). We promoted a class specifically for those living in an assisted living centers (S.M.I.L.E. - Slow Movement Interactive Leisure Exercise) - we had 3 participants in the group who had been wheel chair bound for months and could handle a dozen or so steps with a walker at best, within 6 months they were walking from the lockeroom to the pool with a walker about 40 feet on their own. The other fact is these people were getting out of the care facility twice per week which is another benefit (not sure how many people would survive or want to survive if you were stuck in the same place all the time).
    These people (blobs, aerobes whatever you want to call them) pay money to use the pool just as you do and have the same rights to do so as you. A quick daily sample (number are skewed to favor the lap swimmers from this day compared to others) has 63 lap swimmers ; 15 aqua exercise ; 17 open recreation and 70 lesson participants who used my lap pool or in other words roughly 63 people who would like the pool cooler and 102 people who would like the pool warmer - I'm pretty sure my numbers/ratio 3 to 5 would be fairly consistent to most multi use facilities, so you can see why my water temp may be a little warmer than 80-81 (we are actually at 83).
    Last comment before I get off my soap box, Bill Bowerman co-founder of Nike has a quote which is used by Nike "If you have a body then you are an Athlete"

  11. #31
    Very Active Member laineybug's Avatar
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    Shakey, to answer your question... I swim because I love swimming and I am at a fitness level beyond that of the water aerobic classess. BUT, just because it isn't aerobic for me doesn't mean its not for someone else, and that they don't benefit from it in some way (even if YOU don't/can't/won't see the benefit for yourself). It is their right to chose whatever form of exercise they wish, and 'we' shouldn't look down on them as somehow less deserving or inferior.

    You get out, what you put in, and if someone doesn't put in much, it isn't 'water aerobics' fault it is the person who is at fault. Rather than condeming water aerobics as an ineffective exercise or pseudo sport realize that it is the participants. And yes, I would have problems with folks who are fooling themselves by floating around during class. But how do you know, how can you really be sure they are capable of more? I'm not a doctor, and certainly can't look at someone and tell if they have a hidden medical condition. I am a psychologist, but I can't tell just by looking at someone if they have a mental or emotional handicapping condition that interferes with their full participation.

    My comment about no talking during the aerobic portion of the class was to demonstrate that there is very little socializing going on during class.

    I also find labels like blob, manatee, water buffalo, etc. offensive, down right mean and insensitive.

    Now I will get off my soap box.

    Lainey

  12. #32
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Not giving in on this

    I have never contended, nor will I ever, that people with legitimate medical needs that would benefit from water activity are the problem. Quite the contrary, they should get to use the pool and use it under medical supervision. We should not debate this point further. I totally agree with you on that.

    I think those of us complaining (and not doing much more than that) is about the overwhelming majority of able bodied floaters that make up most water aerobics classes.

    I also won't contend I know what I'm talking about (your educated comment). However, I do a lot of travelling and a whole lot of swimming and every single class I encounter has the same issue. The notable exception is one class I witnessed at the Hartford, CT YMCA. Those jokers were really doing it right.

    Lastly, do you think there is any correlation with the wave of super sized Americans and the onset of sub sized fitness ideas(i.e. - water aerobics, the fat zapper thing, the rubber band contraption, thigh master, that crazy metal horse thing my wife rides, etc)?

    I'm sure I have offended everyone now. My punishment (self imposed) may be a water aerobics class where I can get flogged by numerous noodles.

  13. #33
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    Facility standards maybe the issue, you travel around a lot, I would assume (which may be incorrect) that you primarily use 'Y' facilities, and there training standards might be below what I have encountered (both public and private use facilities). SInce we know Shaky has the same view and also uses a Y facility (starting to see a trend). As for fitness crazes - they have always been around (remember seeing the picture of the vibrating belt thing from like the 50's that goes around the waist area and is suppose to vibrate/rub and cause the fat to melt away. The thinking of the generally public is the issue (favorite comic strip of Garfield is where he wolfs down an entire bag of dietetic candy and then says a few more bags of this and I will skinny as a rail). I think it is the lack of movement on peoples part - kids playing video games, watching TV, decline in PE in schools, after school programs, list goes on (everyone has seen/read the stories) nothing new there. Sorry again for the soap box.

  14. #34
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    What my first response said was that we (swimmers) do not get a lot of say as to temp. What I did not say was that I have been a swimmer for most of my life BUT was a water ex teacher for many years as well. I have used water running to alternate with swimming during two pregnancies and have led very strenuous classes (using no equipment) for all ages and fitness levels. I do have respect for this type of exercise if done correctly. That said, in my experience, warm water does nothing for anyone trying to elevate her/his heart rate. My favorite temp for swimming is 70 degrees F - obviously I spend a great deal of time in the lake when it's humanly possible.

    By the way, as I placed the cold hoses in their lanes this morning, I told my swimmers that even in Florida in the summer the pools are heated, and they seemed to take some solace in that

  15. #35
    Very Active Member Matt S's Avatar
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    Angry Hey Aquageek

    I'll not try to respond to every point you and Shakey have brought up (if for no reason other than you keep making them over and over again, so there is no point to trying respond unless I am up for a "did not"/"did too" contest).

    Let me just try to point out the self-serving circularity of your last post. You assert that most of the people in water aerobics do not have a medical condition; therefore, they should do some "real" exercise, and presumably get out of your pool. The remainder of people do have a medical condition, and you approve of their using a pool. BUT (here's the hook), their condition should be severe enough that they require immediate medical supervision while they are exercising. Let me guess, your pool does not offer medical supervision during lap/open swim. So, these folks should also get out of your pool. Pretty darn convenient if you are a lap swimmer.

    Your posts on this issue are tiresome; indeed, any further carping about water temperature or water aerobics classes is tiresome. (We only recycle this issue about once every month and a half, with the usual suspects leading the charge.) I am outta here.

    Matt

  16. #36
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    Either too hot or too cold.

  17. #37
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Come clean, Matt S

    It's OK to admit you are a noodler. There's no shame. Free yourself of pity and self loathing and just admit it. Then, my carping won't bother you so.

    Now, I am outta here.

  18. #38
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    I quit fighting City Hall on this issue many years ago. I have resigned myself to swimming in bathtub temperatures and simply bring a bar of soap, and some of my great go fast shampoo to practice and make lemon aid out of lemons....

    All kidding aside, some of you heart specialists out there, please jump in here, because, from what I have read over the years it can be extremely dangerous swimming high intensity workouts in pool temperatures like we often see in Masters Swimming.

  19. #39
    Very Active Member jerrycat's Avatar
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    I have a confession to make...I feel bad about making so much fun of the water aerobics people. That wasn't very nice at all--and I apologize for being offensive.

  20. #40
    Very Active Member Gareth Eckley's Avatar
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    If we are to fight the demands of some to raise pool temperatures then we do need objective scientific research on the dangers of excercising in hot water.

    The Non swimmers in the pool have the option of moving about a bit harder or wearing an extra layer of clothes to keep warm.

    Masters swimmers cannot wear less clothes ! We also need to perform excercise at an elevated level for a period of time to train our energy systems. The aerobic level, anaerobic and Lactic acid sets to perform up to our potential in swim meets.

    These demmands raise our ' core body temp', we are sweating and working hard in the pool. Having to hose down swimmers in the pool is crazy and management and the aerobics crowd should be embarrased to see that happen.

    I guess that I was hoping that someone would know of research online on this topic that i could use for info on my fight. Unfortunately the US " swim " magazine I don't have a copy of , and the article is not available online. Is there a reference to research there that I could look up or do any doctors have info ?

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