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Thread: Is your pool too hot !

  1. #41
    Very Active Member jerrycat's Avatar
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    Exercising in extreme heat, in general is dangerous.

    Although running is obviously a differernt sport than swimming, the same fundamental applies. There is information on runnersworld.com about the dangers of heat training--how reduced milage should be applied, and if possible all avoidance of training in the heat period.

    Perhaps taking information from running (and another highly aerobic/anerobic sports) would also help your case. I'll look on runnersworld.com right now and forward on the viable links. By taking a holistic approach, it could also be convincing that hot water for water aerobics really isn't such a good idea after all--especially since it is aerobics, where people are supposed to be moving and working hard. One could argue that participants are overheating themselves at a higher temp. At my health club, water aerobics is in the 81 degree pool--even if there are older or handicapped persons participating in the class. They begin moving, and the temperature if fine for them.

    Also, on page 18 of Fitness Swimming, by Emmett Hines, he has a section noted as Water Temperature. Here he plainly states that swimming in water overe 82 degrees is dangerous/with the risk of overheating. He is no doctor--but is a well known author and coach.

  2. #42
    Very Active Member laineybug's Avatar
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    at lunch I googled "pool temperature" + "swimming"... I think thats the search I did that turned up an USA Swimming rule that said water temp should be between 78 and 80 degrees for competition... but it says nothing about temperature for practices... however, if swimming in water hotter than 80 is dangerous during competition (and thats my assumption about the need to control temps during competition... I didn't read the whole thing) then it follows that practicing in water hotter than 80 would also be dangerous as parts of some workouts are at competition levels.

    Maybe it would help to show them that rule.

    I'll see if I can find the citation again.

    Lainey

    Jerrycat, we all say things we wish we hadn't when confronted with frustrating situations.

  3. #43
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    There's got to be hundreds of collective years of swimming by the people that participate in these forums. How many instances of heat related illness, stroke, etc can we cite? I can't think of a single one. I've either been a swimmer or a coach for 35+ years and I've swum in some very warm water in North Carolina, Oklahoma, and Texas. I'm not talking about being uncomfortable. You can be just as uncomfortable in cold water. I'm talking about where the water was hot enough to cause someone participating in strenuous exercise real trauma. Maybe I've been lucky.

  4. #44
    Very Active Member Gareth Eckley's Avatar
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    We had a swimmer at our pool collapse a few days ago after attempting a hard workout. Even if collapse doesn't happen performance is inhibited, extended anaerobic work is difficult and sub-maximal and maximal speed work is risky. It is a very real problem.

    Core body temp is raised by the work we do in the water, the harder we work the higher it goes. If the water is " cool " then we can sweat into the water to keep the equilibrium. If the water is too " hot " then core body temp will keep rising with possible heat exhaustion.

    Some people are better adapted to dealing with high temp than others, my years growing up in rainy, cool, Britain make me one who has real problems and my performance suffers.

    I would like to compare the Meet Results of swimmers who trained in " hot pools " against those who train in 80 to 82 ' F pools. I am sure that there would be a difference as you just cannot train as hard in a hot pool.

  5. #45
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    Fritz:
    You make a great point! But, I wonder how many of the folks over the years that have keeled over dead at meets or after practices...were either directly or indirectly caused by hot water. Some perhaps days or weeks after swimming in that type stress...

  6. #46
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    Gareth,

    Not sure about following your thought about sweating into the water as a cooling mechanism for the body. My understanding (once agin could be wrong) is that when sweat evaporates off of the skin that is where the cooling takes place. Now sweat in water wouldn't evaporate but would be absorbed (could be a better term for it) so no cooling would really be taking place regardless of how warm or cold the water is. The cooling effect by water would be more of a conduction process. I think the issue of uncomfortable versus harmful is a little blown out of proportion. When the air temp is in the mid 80's you don't see health warnings in regards to exercise (usually that is reserved for 90's). Also don't forget about waters ability to absorb more heat than air so even 85 water is till going to absorb your bodies heat quicker than 85 air (thats why a person in 40 degree water may only last 1/2 hour at best even with physical activity while someone could exercise on land for an hour or two without any ill side effects). Pool temp is real personal, look at how many people have posted the range they like to work out in (even a 70 degree which most would find too cold) to each their own.

  7. #47
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    I agree. I'm one of the few that likes it a little warmer. I did too many swim meets as a kid at 78 and below and when I couldn't down a warmdown during the meet I had trouble breathing. And I'm never been thin as a swimmer. And as an adult I'm overweight.

  8. #48
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    Yes we have sub optimal workouts and races because of warmer water. For the most part nobody is going to argue that point but it's a far different point than saying it's dangerous.

    If it is indeed dangerous and if the high water temps are as common as it would seem by reading these posts then wouldn't there be a high instance of heat related injuries?

    I'm pretty sure the runners are laughing at us right now.

  9. #49
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    I'm sure the runners are laughing at us right now....but they NEVER laugh at us at the start of a tri (in the swim part)....
    and they weren't laughing in the middle of San Francisco Bay either....SAID WITH A BIG SMILE!

  10. #50
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    For those across the pond (and anyone else who has not seen the July/Aug SWIM issue:

    Core temp, the temp of the deeper tissues of the body, can survive 10C degree drop but only a 5Cdegree elevation. Fatigue sets in at 38-40C (100.4-104F), and optimal for performance is slightly raised core temp.

    Water absorbs 1000x more heat than air, hence the difference between 80 degree water and deck temps. Swimming a fast crawl, say the authors, can increase core temp .5-.9 degrees F every 5-7 minutes, which offsets the cooling action of the water.

    As to evaporation effects in water: evaporation of perspiration IS what cools us in air, but water is 100% humid so we do not benefit from evaporation but still lose fluids thru skin and airways. In warm water, as core temp rises 1F/10 minutes (approx), swimmer will fell overheated, fatigued, then HR increases. Heart has to work harder ....swimmer has to slow down because in the end enough oxygen does not get to the muscles. They say that the brain may even enhance the fatigue feelings as a protective mechanism.

    That is paraphrased from the article by Jessica Seaton and James Acker.

    They also include this from the "Swimming Pool Operators and Owners Resource Pages":
    Max temp for swimming, diving, fitness swimming and training:80.6F (27C)
    Max temp for rec, adult teaching, conventional main pools:82.4F(28C)
    Max temp for children's swim lessons and leisure pools:84.2F(29C)
    Max temp for babies, young children, disabled and handicapped people:86.0F (30C)

    Hopefully this can help!

  11. #51
    Very Active Member Gareth Eckley's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Jdut

    Thank you, thank you , thank you !

    That info was just what I was looking for.

    I love this forum, it really is the best !

    This will be decided next week, i will let you know the result.

    Thanks Gareth.

  12. #52
    Very Active Member Gareth Eckley's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Well the pool management came thru Ok. They have bought in the pool engineers to show them how to work the system.

    The water temp has lowered to 28' C,(82.4 F) not as low as the 27'C (80.6) that I would like, but i can live with it. Much better than the 30'C (86 'F) that we had a few weeks ago.

    We have had a big heatwave here, 95' to 100' F and people were coming to the pool to cool down, so I think that helped the management to bring the temp down lower.

    Thanks for your help.

  13. #53
    Very Active Member sparx35's Avatar
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    glad your pool temp is ok,think ours is a bit high,but as its coal heated sometimes its too cold..i got terrible cramps once when it was too cold..
    live to swim,,,,,swim to live

  14. #54
    Participating Member Cherie's Avatar
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    If you look at the recomended temp's for the pool the say that 86.0 is the recommended for babies. That may explain part of it. I know that my water exercise group (yes I'm one of those that does both, my instructor is GREAT and if you put a lot of effort into it there is A LOT of ab and glut work) complains about it being too hot. But it makes sense now since there is a class for babies/toddlers at the same time. Have to keep things warm for the lil' ones. I guess you need to reevaluate where you swim. Thinking about that may make me pay the higher price to go swim laps in the next city since they have 3 pools and one is specified as a lap pool.

    Cherie

  15. #55
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Baby temp? Is that a joke? I've never ever heard any pool manager use that one. Most infant and toddler classes are 30 minutes anyway. The fact is this has nothing to do with babies, it is about the floaters.

    For Shaky and Lefty - you won't believe this one. A pool I use has signs up now for a new class called "Yoga Afloat." I truly believe this now legitimizes on a mass scale the art of floating. Lainey may not like this.

  16. #56
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    Just an FYI, this table was copied from the United States Water Fitness Association (www.usfwa.com) - please note their disclaimer.

    Suggested Swimming Pool Water Temperatures

    This is a very debatable subject! The suggested pool temperature is usually dependant on the person’s activity in the pool. Below are some rough ideas regarding water temperatures for various activities.

    1. Highly competitive swimming teams – 78 to 80 degrees.

    2. Swimming lessons (beginners)

    a. Preschool – 88 to 94 degrees.

    b. 3-5 years – 86 to 90 degrees.

    c. 6-13 years – 84 to 86 degrees.

    d. Adults – 85 to 89 degrees.

    3. Water Fitness

    a. Arthritis – 83+ degrees (83 is a minimum)

    b. Prenatal – 84 + degrees.

    c. Water walking (the older the person, the higher they like the temperature – up to a certain point).

    d. Aqua aerobics – 78 to 82 degrees.

    Special Note: Because of varying water temperature, for the safety of participants, classes should vary depending on the water temperature. High aerobic activity in high temperature water could be dangerous.

  17. #57
    Very Active Member Gareth Eckley's Avatar
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    If the table suggests 78 to 82 'F for aqua aerobics why do they complain until the temp is at a minimum of 86 ' F ?

  18. #58
    Very Active Member laineybug's Avatar
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    For Shaky and Lefty - you won't believe this one. A pool I use has signs up now for a new class called "Yoga Afloat." I truly believe this now legitimizes on a mass scale the art of floating. Lainey may not like this.
    LOL... we do Ai Chi as a cool down in the aerobics class. You would be surprised how difficult it is to perform the postures correctly and slowly in water over your shoulders without loosing your balance or floating away. You know, yoga and pilates are great ways of stretching and becoming more flexible... Maybe you should try the class, your swimming might benefit!

    Lainey

  19. #59
    Very Active Member aquageek's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, I'm a big believer of Yoga and Pilates - ON LAND. This whole Yoga Afloat seems a little contrived as a big float party. I would hazard a guess they will have a floating latte and sticky bun/bear claw bar there also.

  20. #60
    Very Active Member sparx35's Avatar
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    Talking

    what temp requirement for head up breastrokers!!!???lol.....
    live to swim,,,,,swim to live

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