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Thread: Doping among masters athletes

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    USMS Member since 2003 gull's Avatar
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    Doping among masters athletes

    At least this isn't a problem in USMS, right?

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/...amateur_408457

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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    of course this is a problem in USMS ... why would our athletes be any different than masters athletes in cycling ... sadly we have neither a mechanism to report nor a will to intervene
    As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

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    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by gull View Post
    At least this isn't a problem in USMS, right?


    I think everyone has their suspects and while I'd like a clean sport, I doubt we have the resources (financial or people) to police this.

    This paragraph captures the issue perfectly. Personally, I'm of the mindset of the friend ...

    Early last November, a friend of Walters insisted that no amateur bike racer would stoop to doping. He couldn’t get past the ‘why,’ Walters says. Since there’s no money, doping to win cheap prizes and sparse cheers was, to his mind, laughable.
    ... but the realist in me agrees with Walters...

    But Walters knew better. He’d seen with his own eyes the lengths to which athletes would go to step up a level. He had heard the rationalizations and justifications of dozens of men and women.
    I derive enough satisfaction from training, the act of competition and using my own performances as a yardstick so the fact there are people doping in USMS (or via FINA Masters) doesn't detract from my own satisfaction. If nothing else, given the potential damage the dopers are doing to their bodies longer term, I figure I'll be well-positioned once I hit the 80+ age groups

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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    I figure I'll be well-positioned once I hit the 80+ age groups
    fantastic pwd, i'll need someone to race the last 25years then - 80 to 105
    i may not remember what pool im at or what city im in, but i'll get on the blocks and go

    i can name several masters that are swimming faster in their 40s then they did at any point before that. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post


    I derive enough satisfaction from training, the act of competition and using my own performances as a yardstick so the fact there are people doping in USMS (or via FINA Masters) doesn't detract from my own satisfaction. If nothing else, given the potential damage the dopers are doing to their bodies longer term, I figure I'll be well-positioned once I hit the 80+ age groups
    I agree with you. I don't really care if masters competitors use PEDs and I think it would be a mistake to try to test. I compete in meets to help motivate me to go to workouts and to push myself in workouts.

    I have spent my whole life swimming with people who are a lot faster than me and it does not hurt my feelings that there are people who are faster than me now - regardless of how they do it. I know some people have a different view, but it does not bother me. In fact, I was looking forward to having the poster boy for PEDs, Lance Armstrong, in USMS events to show that our organization was inclusive. I understand the reason to exclude him, but it would not bother me to compete in a meet where he swam.

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    Very Active Member mmlr38's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    I derive enough satisfaction from training, the act of competition and using my own performances as a yardstick so the fact there are people doping in USMS (or via FINA Masters) doesn't detract from my own satisfaction. If nothing else, given the potential damage the dopers are doing to their bodies longer term, I figure I'll be well-positioned once I hit the 80+ age groups
    Well said Patrick, and I couldn't agree more. I use swimming as a way to stay in shape. Competitions keep me motivated to train hard, thus keeping me fit. My swimming career started in the open water and the only way to completely accurately gauge one's performance there is placing, due to the fact that courses can change year-to-year and conditions can have a large influence on race times. But in a pool, conditions are much more controlled and I enjoy the aspect of trying to improve my times each time I swim; or at the very least, learning something from every race. For that reason, I'm really enjoying my time in the pool. I love racing the clock far more than any competitor! And, like you, I hope to be racing the clock well into my 80, 90s or 100s!

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    Very Active Member knelson's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by pwb View Post
    I derive enough satisfaction from training, the act of competition and using my own performances as a yardstick so the fact there are people doping in USMS (or via FINA Masters) doesn't detract from my own satisfaction.
    In general I agree, but imagine if you set a new world record but were beaten by someone who admitted to doping. If this happened to me I think I'd be a little pissed off.

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    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    I have heard rumors about certain people and I have had my suspicions about certain swimmers. I'd like USMS to do some testing, Maybe test 10% of top finishers at Nats.
    It is great to swim mostly against yourself,but we don't give medals for most improvement. Lots of swimmers do care about where they rank against other swimmers. For swimmers to rank higher by cheating is not fair. I think most of the cheaters are not doing it for the glory,but are doing it to feel younger and more vital( listen to the ads for testosterone supplements.) I know that when the shiny suits were legal and I was swimming faster I felt younger, and that was without any muscular or cardiovascular improvement.
    I think it is great to want to be your best,but I don't think it is wrong to want to be the best (or top ten or whatever your competitive goal is.) To be robbed of the opportunity by a cheater is wrong. Testing a few swimmers would not be cost prohibitive and it might make some cheaters think twice.
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    i am all for testing..provided there are harsh penalties for being caught.
    1st offense - banned till after the next masters world championships
    2nd offense - make it 2
    3rd - lifetime

    hand me a cup i'll take the test right now

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    Very Active Member pwb's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by sunruh View Post
    i am all for testing..provided there are harsh penalties for being caught.
    1st offense - banned till after the next masters world championships
    2nd offense - make it 2
    3rd - lifetime

    hand me a cup i'll take the test right now
    Agreed.

    I am all for testing, but I just imagined that the financial/staff constraints prohibited this.

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    Very Active Member arthur's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    I'm all for stopping doping but there are a lot of medications masters aged swimmers take for their heart etc. that have no performance enhancing ability but are masking agents. I'd probably have a much smaller list of banned substances.

    The Americas Masters Games happening this weekend and next week in Vancouver says they are doing random doping: "At least 1 event, heat, and lane will be selected randomly for doping control."
    Last edited by arthur; August 26th, 2016 at 02:33 AM.

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    Very Active Member Sojerz's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    I haven't worried much about what's on the list of banned substances, because I only use a protein shake, multi-vitamin and fish oil (I'm not even sure if these are really helpful). They are readily available on the web or many health and drug stores.

    I recall one Olympic athlete stating that she tested positive for a banned substance that was in something she bought at the Vitamin shop - WTH. As Allen stated above, I see the adds for low T supplements (I'm 67, do I have low T as compared to when I was 20?) and for supplements like glutamine, BCCAs, and Creatine and other stuff and wonder what is "legal". What's the difference between "legal" supplements and banned substances? I've also wondered why there hasn't been more said about PEDs by USMS.

    Presumably, elite athletes have a coach and trainers who deal with the issue of PEDs. I don't and I'm not a biochemist or physician. I do occasionally have scripts that contain topical or other sort of steroidal substances, would these show up in a PED test?

    So if USMS heads down this path, I and many others would need quite a bit of education.
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by sunruh View Post
    fantastic pwd, i'll need someone to race the last 25years then - 80 to 105
    i may not remember what pool im at or what city im in, but i'll get on the blocks and go

    i can name several masters that are swimming faster in their 40s then they did at any point before that. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
    To be fair, I'm doing that over 50-100m breast. Not only am I not doping, but I'm not living the life of an elite athlete. I'm a senior manager, I have a family, and I like a drink and other 'nutritional' indulgences. Oh, and I'm in the pool for 3 hours a week. Ok, so I quite right before college but I was a youth international. Point is, why shouldn't we be going faster than 20-odd years ago when the sport has moved on (especially strokes with rule changes).

    If we did have testing in masters, the medial exception forms would be a nightmare to administer!!

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    USMS Member since 2003 gull's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by robertsrobson View Post
    If we did have testing in masters, the medical exception forms would be a nightmare to administer!!
    Not really.

    Testing for anabolic steroids, human growth hormone, and EPO would be sufficient.

    Random testing would not be cost prohibitive, and it might serve as a deterrent.

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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by gull View Post
    Not really.

    Testing for anabolic steroids, human growth hormone, and EPO would be sufficient.

    Random testing would not be cost prohibitive, and it might serve as a deterrent.
    i think masters (of all sports not just swimming) should help set the example for elite and kids to NOT dope.
    and do it by top 3 + random and all record breakers.
    part of the record submittial is your test

    when someone at age 45 goes as fast as they did at 22.....in the 200 fly/400im/800free.....yeah right

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    Very Active Member Allen Stark's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by gull View Post
    Not really.

    Testing for anabolic steroids, human growth hormone, and EPO would be sufficient.

    Random testing would not be cost prohibitive, and it might serve as a deterrent.
    Yes.
    "To strive,to seek,to find,and not to yield" Tennyson
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    sprint diva The Fortress's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by gull View Post
    Not really.

    Testing for anabolic steroids, human growth hormone, and EPO would be sufficient.

    Random testing would not be cost prohibitive, and it might serve as a deterrent.
    Exactly!

    But isn't testosterone technically classified an anabolic steroid? Wouldn't we then have a raft of medical exemptions for that from 50+ guys?

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    USMS Member since 2003 gull's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fortress View Post
    But isn't testosterone classified an anabolic steroid? Wouldn't we then have a raft of medical exemptions for that?
    Unlike hypogonadism, which is real but uncommon, Low T is not an actual medical condition. But if you want to "treat" it and compete in Masters swimming, apply for a TUE.

    Let's swim clean.

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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Based on the list of banned substances, I would fail from 2 of the 3 prescriptions I started before I joined masters. These in NO way enhance my swimming, other than giving me the ability to function is real life. (one is considered a masking agent the other is albuterol).

    However, I will admit, after having taken steroids for pneumonia, and felt like superwoman in the pool, I can see how easily tempting it can be to keep taking them.

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    Very Active Member knelson's Avatar
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    Re: Doping among masters athletes

    Quote Originally Posted by gull View Post
    Unlike hypogonadism, which is real but uncommon, Low T is not an actual medical condition. But if you want to "treat" it and compete in Masters swimming, apply for a TUE.

    Let's swim clean.
    Since testosterone is a naturally occurring hormone I assume a positive test simply means you have a level that wouldn't have occurred naturally, correct?

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