The Breaststroke Lane

[Allen Stark]

Hey Allen, I took another 2 seconds off my 200 breaststroke for a total of 5 seconds off, since I started taking your advice. THANK YOU!!!

,one cheerleader for each second.

[ElaineK]

,one cheerleader for each second.

[Lee Rider]

Wow, three strokes is awesome. I have gotten down to six, both full stroke and underwater, after pullout. I guess I have a ways to go. Pull buoy, I am down to 12, and I go 9 kicks per 25. These are all way down, but I still feel like my streamline needs work, as does the timing of my pullout.

Tough keepping the head neutral and the legs flat when fatigue sets in. I find it helps to rotate my knees inward at the start of the kick.

Jim: You are doing real good at 6 strokes and 9 kicks is great (I do mostly 8 but can stretch it to 7 if I really glide between kicks).

What you need to look at is the relationship between stroke count and time for a 50. There will be a point where you don't go any faster adding more strokes, so working that stroke count down while maintaining that same pace is the goal. Also take into account your "perceived effort" rating on a scale from 1 to 10 along with heart rate. All of these factors give you feedback on stroke efficiency.

I do most of my training alone, so these concepts play a big part of how I work on my stroke efficiency.

Tapered, shaved and wearing my 2000 "farmer john" type short body suit, I do 6 x 50 on a minute and have done a pullout, 2 strokes, turn, pullout, 2 strokes and finish in about 33 seconds from a push. That's when I know my stroke is really efficient. Mid season I'm usually doing 4 strokes at about 38 seconds for the same set. It is real easy to tell when things are really working.

Anyway, good luck.

[Robert Strand]

I think a lot of you breastrokers don't know or have never seen Lee Rider. #1 when healthy he is one of the world's best #2 he has a beautiful stroke. Reminds me of my late friend and competitor Olympic gold medalist Don McKenize #3 Biggest, strongest guy I have ever swam against #4 He has fantastic turns and wall work #4 wish he was going to be in Atlanta for two reasons A. so other breastrokers could see him swim and B. I could go to any bar, get as crazy as I want, and believe me Lee would get me out of any trouble. Not many people would want to fool with this guy. Seriously Lee hope to see you soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chris Stevenson]

Not many people would want to fool with this guy.

He must have a tattoo.

I like this one too.

[Jimbosback]

Breaststrokers:
The most eccentric and idiosyncratic of all the signs, er, strokes. Breaststrokers are a breed apart, marching to the beat of their own drummer. Or in the case of Tennessee's Jeremy Linn, one of the finest breaststrokers in NCAA history, the beat of Phish drummer Jon Fishman. Back in the mid-90's, Linn was the prototype eccentric breaststroker: head in the clouds, frog-leaping behind the blocks... and then breaking records and rushing off to follow Phish on the road. Need a few more examples? How about the guys who raced to breaststroke gold in 1992 in Barcelona? Nelson Diebel and Mike Barrowman. Two guys who couldn't be more different, but both, well, just a bit out there... On every team I've ever known, that was the breaststrokers - off in their own world, and proud of it.

[Karen Duggan]

I totally agree, unless they're an IMer too!

[Glider]

I was looking forward to meeting Lee and racing him.

Lee: What's your secret on wall work? My walls suck. Need help...

I think a lot of you breastrokers don't know or have never seen Lee Rider. #1 when healthy he is one of the world's best #2 he has a beautiful stroke. Reminds me of my late friend and competitor Olympic gold medalist Don McKenize #3 Biggest, strongest guy I have ever swam against #4 He has fantastic turns and wall work #4 wish he was going to be in Atlanta for two reasons A. so other breastrokers could see him swim and B. I could go to any bar, get as crazy as I want, and believe me Lee would get me out of any trouble. Not many people would want to fool with this guy. Seriously Lee hope to see you soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lee Rider]

I think a lot of you breastrokers don't know or have never seen Lee Rider. #1 when healthy he is one of the world's best #2 he has a beautiful stroke. Reminds me of my late friend and competitor Olympic gold medalist Don McKenize #3 Biggest, strongest guy I have ever swam against #4 He has fantastic turns and wall work #4 wish he was going to be in Atlanta for two reasons A. so other breastrokers could see him swim and B. I could go to any bar, get as crazy as I want, and believe me Lee would get me out of any trouble. Not many people would want to fool with this guy. Seriously Lee hope to see you soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Bob. Wish I could be there to swim but not to bar hop!

Wish I could have records that last for 10 years like you and Don. That is the real accomplishment. Hope you are well and swim fast at Atlanta. Warren Schenstrom could stand in for me at the bar!

[Lee Rider]

Lee: this is an interesting workout set, for sure.

What are the reasons you are so much faster
with the two-stroke set, late in the season,
as opposed to the 4-stroke set, early on ?

Scott

Scott: The suit, the shave and the taper. Basically later in the season we all should be gliding better.

I'm basically a lazy guy so I like to glide as much as possible!

[Lee Rider]

I was looking forward to meeting Lee and racing him.

Lee: What's your secret on wall work? My walls suck. Need help...

I think that having short legs helps. I am almost 6'-1" and have a 31" inseam. Leg press and toe raises in the weight room also helps (but, strangely, hasn't really helped my start which really sucks).

Pick a spot mid pool to start from, swim 12.5 yds, turn and pull-out. Time yourself to that spot and work the turn. Maintain momentum going into the turn and use that momentum when you reverse direction. They are like free throws: The more you do consecutively, the better they will be.

All of the aspects of a good wall are in this section of the forum

[ElaineK]

I have another thought.I have twitchy shoulders and knees so I do relatively little actual BR during workout.Could you do maybe 200 total full stroke in workout and get your form right without hurting yourself?Then spend the rest of your workout doing drills and free for conditioning and feel for the water.I recommend against doing much if any BR kick by itself.It puts too much strain on the knees.I do lots of eggbeater kick,either vertical or horizontal with a snorkel.I find it gives me a great leg workout of the appropriate muscles with much less knee strain.

Allen, I see exactly WHY you do relatively little actual breaststroke during workout. I've been working on keeping my knees narrower on the kick and it didn't take many workouts before I felt it in my knees and had to back off. So, I decided to give the knees a break and concentrate more on my streamline; keeping my elbows closer together and getting my hands in a better position to start the outsweep. Yikes! Add "twitchy" elbows to my mix, in addition to the shoulders and knees... Like I said, I'm a walking R.S.I. So, I backed off, started my taper on May 11th, and cut down on my breaststroke, so I can rest up my aching joints and everything else...

After Nationals, I'll be tapping "The Breaststroke Lane" on in-pool training advice for breaststroke. The goal will be to swim with the best form possible, but keep it easy on the joints (and everything else), so I can be in this sport for the long haul (90's??? ) I'll have to save my best form for meets, I guess.

[Jimbosback]

Jim: You are doing real good at 6 strokes and 9 kicks is great (I do mostly 8 but can stretch it to 7 if I really glide between kicks).

What you need to look at is the relationship between stroke count and time for a 50. There will be a point where you don't go any faster adding more strokes, so working that stroke count down while maintaining that same pace is the goal. Also take into account your "perceived effort" rating on a scale from 1 to 10 along with heart rate. All of these factors give you feedback on stroke efficiency.

I do most of my training alone, so these concepts play a big part of how I work on my stroke efficiency.

Tapered, shaved and wearing my 2000 "farmer john" type short body suit, I do 6 x 50 on a minute and have done a pullout, 2 strokes, turn, pullout, 2 strokes and finish in about 33 seconds from a push. That's when I know my stroke is really efficient. Mid season I'm usually doing 4 strokes at about 38 seconds for the same set. It is real easy to tell when things are really working.

Anyway, good luck.

Thanks for the advice. I also train alone.

I tried out my new Aquablade jammers this morning and went 25y in 5 strokes full stroke, 7 kicks (no board), and 10 pulls with the buoy. Not sure how much of that is the suit and how much is the work I'm putting in, but I'll take it. I'll see on Wednesday when I get back to my old suit. I only swim for time on Fridays, so I'll experiment with time vs. stroke count then.

[swimshark]

Originally Posted by Casey Barrett
Breaststrokers:
The most eccentric and idiosyncratic of all the signs, er, strokes. Breaststrokers are a breed apart, marching to the beat of their own drummer. Or in the case of Tennessee's Jeremy Linn, one of the finest breaststrokers in NCAA history, the beat of Phish drummer Jon Fishman. Back in the mid-90's, Linn was the prototype eccentric breaststroker: head in the clouds, frog-leaping behind the blocks... and then breaking records and rushing off to follow Phish on the road. Need a few more examples? How about the guys who raced to breaststroke gold in 1992 in Barcelona? Nelson Diebel and Mike Barrowman. Two guys who couldn't be more different, but both, well, just a bit out there... On every team I've ever known, that was the breaststrokers - off in their own world, and proud of it.

Hey, that's my coach- Jeremy! He's still a bit that way but is so awesome to have as a coach. I'm still trying to convince him to swim in a masters meet again. One of these days....

[Lee Rider]

Just took a look at the real time results at Nationals. Breaststrokes look real fast.

At some point in my life I would like to swim faster than one second every year I have been alive in the 100 yard breaststroke. I don't know if anyone has ever done it, but Bob Strand came darn close and could be the first to do it in the next couple of years.

Wish I could have been there to see it.

[SurfAndSwim]

hi guys,
is here someone who can swim 50 BR SCM under 30 sec? or LCM under 31? if so, how fast you kick in practice? 25, 50, 100 ?

thanks

When I'm kicking I usually don't do too many 25's, but when I do them 17-19 is a target for a 25. For 50's, 37-39, and for 100's 1:17 - 1:22 is my target. For 200 yard kick I try to be around 2:45-2:50 depending on how many. Intervals should be about 1:00 per 50 depending on the intensity of the sets.

[SurfAndSwim]

I had a great battle with KEN FROST yesterday in the 50 Breast at Nationals.

The thing that was most impressive, as I sat behind the blocks,
trying to look like I was catching my breath, was watching
Mark Gangloff, 27 break the national 25-29 age group
50 yard breastroke national record
with an eye-popping 23.87 seconds time.

23.87 for 50 breast !

Mark was so fast, he made the next three finishers look slow,
even though they were in the 25's !

Here's part of my question:
Is this the fastest 50 yard breastroke on record, from a flat start ?
By that I mean, not a relay split, but from a gun.
Either as a straight 50, or the first 50 of a 100 ?

Basically, I am asking:
1) Did we just see the fastest 50 Br of all time ?
2) Was that time set by a masters swimmer ?

Mark's swim was absolutely spectacular, 23.8 in 50 BR is insanely fast. I am not sure if this was the fastest 50, since the American Record in the 100 is 50.8, I would imagine that the first 50 of that race was probably under 24. But that said, there probably have been very few 23's from a flat start by anyone ever!

[JoeBob]

[QUOTE=Scott Guthrie;214950
Here's part of my question:
Is this the fastest 50 yard breastroke on record, from a flat start ?
By that I mean, not a relay split, but from a gun.
Either as a straight 50, or the first 50 of a 100 ?

Basically, I am asking:
1) Did we just see the fastest 50 Br of all time ?
2) Was that time set by a masters swimmer ?[/QUOTE]

Cal's Damir Dugonjic took his 100br out in 23.45 at last year's NCAAs when he went 50.86.
He could have probably broken a minute towing my entire family.

[SwimStud]

Originally Posted by Casey Barrett
Breaststrokers:
The most eccentric and idiosyncratic of all the signs, er, strokes. Breaststrokers are a breed apart, marching to the beat of their own drummer. Or in the case of Tennessee's Jeremy Linn, one of the finest breaststrokers in NCAA history, the beat of Phish drummer Jon Fishman. Back in the mid-90's, Linn was the prototype eccentric breaststroker: head in the clouds, frog-leaping behind the blocks... and then breaking records and rushing off to follow Phish on the road. Need a few more examples? How about the guys who raced to breaststroke gold in 1992 in Barcelona? Nelson Diebel and Mike Barrowman. Two guys who couldn't be more different, but both, well, just a bit out there... On every team I've ever known, that was the breaststrokers - off in their own world, and proud of it.

Hey I'm not at all like that...

[SwimStud]

OK--Top BR'ers out there please check out my vids.

100 BR
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idh2Jw6dwbw"]YouTube- SwimStud Rich 100 BR[/nomedia]

200 BR
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jtP15wSGcg"]YouTube- Me 200 BR[/nomedia]


Got some input that my hips come up to high on the undulations and I should keep them flatter. Curious what you think.
I was beat in the 200 and I feel proud to hang on to go within a second of my best...but I think on a rested day I can go faster.

Feel free to post here or msg me.

Thanks

Stud