The Breaststroke Lane

[ElaineK]

It looks like a nice tight , quick kick to me. I would like mine to look like that.

Thanks, Orca!

[JimRude]

My :

Video 2
- knees are too far apart at start of kick
- knees come too far forward during kick - feet up to butt, not knees forward (think hamstrings, not hip flexors)
- elbows come too far back on arm pull
- after initial hand scull out, you need to be far more aggressive with speed and power of arm pull - there is not enough acceleration

Video 1
- much better than Video 2, but you need some streamlined glide after each stroke
- knees still too wide at start of kick

YMMV.

[ElaineK]

My :

Video 2
- knees are too far apart at start of kick
- knees come too far forward during kick - feet up to butt, not knees forward (think hamstrings, not hip flexors)
- elbows come too far back on arm pull
- after initial hand scull out, you need to be far more aggressive with speed and power of arm pull - there is not enough acceleration

Video 1
- much better than Video 2, but you need some streamlined glide after each stroke
- knees still too wide at start of kick

YMMV.

Yep, I agree with everything you said. When I'm swimming, I feel like I'm doing these things, but, I look at the video after and think .
Avoiding RSI's (repetitive stress injuries) is HUGE with me, because I have had so many from various other fitness and work-related activities. (My mind is willing but the body, well, ...) So, my kick isn't as narrow as it should be. I'm trying, though, to at least keep my kick narrower in competition. I'll try another video and really concentrate on my kick and see what I can do. I know this is something Allen had pointed out at Nationals, as well.

Thanks for your , Jim!

[Allen Stark]

Hey there, fellow frogs!

I would appreciate it greatly if you would take a look at the following clips and provide constructive criticism of my breaststroke. In one, I'm swimming at a slower pace than the other. (Of course, neither are exactly fast when you're a newbie like me. )
Allen, I would especially appreciate your feedback, since I have been trying to put your great tips to use in my stroke. Unfortunately, I think this is about as streamline as I can get my arms...

Thank you very much!

Cheers!

YouTube- ElaineK-Breaststroke2.MOV

YouTube- ElaineK-Breaststroke.MOV

Sorry I'm late,out of town for weekend.First,it looks better than at Nats.I totally agree with Jim,in addition you are really rushing your pullout.In the first one you especially rushed starting the pull.You've got a good push off the wall,use it.In the second,you rushed both the pull and kick and I think you would have been faster to glide more.Also in the first video I really liked your timing,but in the second I thought your pull was rushed and you had some overlap of pull and kick.I know you were sprinting and that some BR sprinters have some overlap,but you have a strong kick and it looked like starting the pull early lost you some momentum.
These are fairly picky points,really good job overall.

[Allen Stark]

Next drill,
Pullout without the pull.
It's just pushoff,dolphin kick,BR kick,breakout.
The idea is to really focus on the dolphin kick(and the BR kick and the breakout.)The dolphin kick in BR isn't exactly like any other dolphin kick;you only get one so you want to make the most of it.Start it by raising your legs and slightly arching your back to maximize the distance you can kick down.

[ElaineK]

Sorry I'm late,out of town for weekend.First,it looks better than at Nats.I totally agree with Jim,in addition you are really rushing your pullout.In the first one you especially rushed starting the pull.You've got a good push off the wall,use it.In the second,you rushed both the pull and kick and I think you would have been faster to glide more.Also in the first video I really liked your timing,but in the second I thought your pull was rushed and you had some overlap of pull and kick.I know you were sprinting and that some BR sprinters have some overlap,but you have a strong kick and it looked like starting the pull early lost you some momentum.
These are fairly picky points,really good job overall.

Allen, your apologizing??? You're helping me, AGAIN, and you're not late for anything. THANK YOU!!!

Well, it appears I have overcompensated, regarding the pullout. The Athlete Village coach said I took too long on my pullouts (200 breaststroke), so I've been speeding it up- too much! I'll start watching the tiles in the black line and concentrate on slowing it back down- but not too much.

Thanks for your feedback on my timing, too. I'll keep working on it! I'm glad to hear it's looking better than at Nats., though. I'm faster (7 seconds on the 200 and almost 3 on the 50), so I guess some things in my stroke are going better now. But, I know there is room for PLENTY of improvement...

Thanks for the !!!

[bzaks1424]

When I do my ankle stretches - do I turn my knees out? or do my best to keep them straight forward? I pretty much try to stretch them whenever I'm just at my desk at work (all the time)

[Allen Stark]

When I do my ankle stretches - do I turn my knees out? or do my best to keep them straight forward? I pretty much try to stretch them whenever I'm just at my desk at work (all the time)

I'd say forward as that is the direction they should face when swimming.

[Allen Stark]

Next drill
Flat wall turns
If that is what you have at your pool you have probably wished for gutters,but turning without using the gutter can help you to turn faster.If you have gutters practice some turns without using them.If you don't use the gutter you can't grab the gutter.Grabbing the gutter isn't of itself bad,it just makes it too easy to twist which slows you down(except for the 1/4 turn that is part of "elbow the robber.")
You want to just push with your trailing arm to rotate you.

[rtodd]

Like others mention, your elbows are coming back too far. Concentrate on high elbows with vertical forearms during the pull and squeeze those elbows together, not letting them get beyond your chest. If you don't have monster power, don't let the outsweep be too big or you will be late recovering. Your recovery should be high and quick with your hands closer to the surface. Try getting at least your thumbs to break the surface on recovery. Try to get recovered and fully extended just prior to dropping your had back in line while keeping those hands and arms near the surface. The momentum of your arms coming to full extension will pull your upper body down into alignment just at the moment of kicking. Ride that glide a bit longer before initiating the outsweep, even a few tenths of a second. Repeat as many times as ecessary untill you reach the touchpad!

[gdanner]

So, my kick isn't as narrow as it should be. I'm trying, though, to at least keep my kick narrower in competition. I'll try another video and really concentrate on my kick and see what I can do.

I would recommend kicking breast on your back in a streamline every once in a while. It really helps you focus on bringing your heels to your butt without bringing the knees forward (otherwise your knees will come out of the water). Also, it's easier to tell when your knees are coming apart sideways when they should be roughly the same width apart throughout the kicking motion. Do 6-8 x 50's kick like that on your back, then switch and do some breast swim to see if you can replicate the range of motion.

[Allen Stark]

Next drill,
BR pull/dolphin kick with fins.
This is a great drill to work on your timing and undulation.Also it is a good way to get extra BR yards in your workout while being kind to your knees.I use fairly large fins as I find it is harder for me to get the timing right with small fins.

[Allen Stark]

Next drill
2 fly stroke,2 BR stroke,2 fly,2 BR etc.
This is a fun one.Just swim a couple of fly then a couple of BR and repeat.It is a good drill to work on undulation and also to work on your pull as the BR pull should be like the first 1/2 of the fly pull.

[ElaineK]

Like others mention, your elbows are coming back too far. Concentrate on high elbows with vertical forearms during the pull and squeeze those elbows together, not letting them get beyond your chest. If you don't have monster power, don't let the outsweep be too big or you will be late recovering. Your recovery should be high and quick with your hands closer to the surface. Try getting at least your thumbs to break the surface on recovery. Try to get recovered and fully extended just prior to dropping your had back in line while keeping those hands and arms near the surface. The momentum of your arms coming to full extension will pull your upper body down into alignment just at the moment of kicking. Ride that glide a bit longer before initiating the outsweep, even a few tenths of a second. Repeat as many times as ecessary untill you reach the touchpad!

Great advice, Rob. Thanks!

[ElaineK]

I would recommend kicking breast on your back in a streamline every once in a while. It really helps you focus on bringing your heels to your butt without bringing the knees forward (otherwise your knees will come out of the water). Also, it's easier to tell when your knees are coming apart sideways when they should be roughly the same width apart throughout the kicking motion. Do 6-8 x 50's kick like that on your back, then switch and do some breast swim to see if you can replicate the range of motion.

Greg, this is a great drill that I do regularly. But, why is it that I can do this perfectly well on my back, but can't get my feet up to my butt as well when I'm swimming breaststroke? When I really reach, by feet break the surface and catch air.

[ElaineK]

Next drill,
BR pull/dolphin kick with fins.
This is a great drill to work on your timing and undulation.Also it is a good way to get extra BR yards in your workout while being kind to your knees.I use fairly large fins as I find it is harder for me to get the timing right with small fins.

My fins arrived along with my new suit and other goodies from Swim Outlet, yesterday, so I tried this drill for the first time, today. I LOVE IT! As soon as I finished, I quickly took off the fins and swam regular breaststroke and felt I had more undulation in my usually flat breaststroke. I feel this will be a good tool in helping me to develop more of a "wave" style breaststroke with more forward momentum. Thanks for posting this drill, Allen, along with all the other great drills you have posted to this thread!

And, thanks again to all of the others who have taken the time to view my video and offer tips. I think about all of them while I'm swimming!

Cheers!


P.S. To Jim Rude: One of my favorite sayings I repeat to myself while I'm in the gym is, "Whatever makes you stronger will make you faster." Thanks for that little gem!

[Rykno]

our masters group has grown to 26 swimmers. ages 20-66!

the best part is we are 5 breaststrokers!!! it's so much easier to swim breast on choice sets when there are others willing to swim at slower start intervals.

[Allen Stark]

This is the last drill I have on my list.I'm always glad to hear from others any BR drills.
BR kick with your arms at your side.
This sounds easy,and it is easy to do wrong.Get in the same position you would be in at the end of your pull in the pullout with your hands at your sides.Now swim BR kick breathing every stroke while keeping your head in the neutral position(do NOT lift your head to breath,lift your torso.)This is a good one to work on kick and especially coordinating the kick with the undulation.If you don't do it right you will either lift your head to breath(bad) or inhale water(worse.)

[ElaineK]

If you don't do it right you will either lift your head to breath(bad) or inhale water(worse.)

Yep! This is exactly what happened to me when my part-time coach taught me this drill. One additional thing he has me do is separate my thumb from my other fingers, then aim to fit my ankles in that "v". This helps to keep my kick narrower.

Allen, what am I doing wrong if I aim to get my feet up closer to my butt during the kick (rather than using my hip flexors like I was doing in the video I posted), but I'm catching air? I thought I would post this question here, rather than in a PM, because it may be of general interest to other frogs on the thread.

[Allen Stark]

Yep! This is exactly what happened to me when my part-time coach taught me this drill. One additional thing he has me do is separate my thumb from my other fingers, then aim to fit my ankles in that "v". This helps to keep my kick narrower.

Allen, what am I doing wrong if I aim to get my feet up closer to my butt during the kick (rather than using my hip flexors like I was doing in the video I posted), but I'm catching air? I thought I would post this question here, rather than in a PM, because it may be of general interest to other frogs on the thread.

When you recover your feet by bending at the knee only they tend to stay lower and so kicking air is less of a problem.Really focus on that.Good luck!!